John Logan: “I think Skyfall demonstrated that they want more layers to that character"

I think Anya is probably one of the most confused characters in Bond canon. For instance, she is presented as "Triple X", a Russian female equivalent of Bond, but she's completely helpless when fighting Jaws and doesn't actually do anything of use in the field (except get caught). She is surprised by the way the Lotus Esprit turns into a submarine, but then claims to have previously stolen the blueprints to the car and displays a knowledge of the gadgetry that suggests that she should have known it was a submarine all along. And while she is angry enough with Bond to want to kill him, and even swears to kill him in revenge once their mission is over, Bond does nothing to change her mind except save her when she forgets all of her training and becomes a damsel in distress.

In retrospect, I think her inconsistencies are a by-product of TSWLM's tumultuous production. Bits and pieces of her character seem to have been salvaged from various drafts and shoehorned together. It really represents the problems with TSWLM's entire premise: it's a half-assed retread of YOLT. I often wondered if EON set up a similar premise in MR to have another go at making a coherent film.

I actually prefer MR a lot more than the other Gilbert films. It feels less confused, it knows it's a brainless spectacle and embraces it without trying to add any half-assed pathos. In fact, Goodhead proves to be a more competent agent than Anya.

Python wrote:

Goodhead proves to be a more competent agent than Anya.

But a more obnoxious one. At least Bach maintains a degree of class.

Out of all the agent Bond girls, Wai Lin and Camille are my favourites. And out of Gilbert's three Bond films YOLT wins out for 60s charm, Connery and my possibly my favourite production design of the entire series.

There is an explanation for Anya being an agent that makes sense: that she is working on behalf of Moscow's equivalent of Q-branch. Recognising that the technical blueprints are a complex and highly-sensitive piece of information, Gogol assigns Anya to work alongside Sergei - the real Triple X - in retreiving them. With her scientific mind, Anya can readily identify the blueprints for what they are, but lacks the field experience necessary to handle situations that arise over the course of the film, hence requiring her to team up with Bond.

With regards to the Wet Nellie, I always gathered that she didn't think that the British would have made such a car. Anyone would have a semblance of shock when a car plummets into the ocean. Upon noticing the underwater features, she knows where everything is because she saw the blueprints.

http://screenmusings.org/CasinoRoyale/pages/CR_0532.htm
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Casino Royale (Mirror twist)


Skyfall

Vulnerability, occasional melancholy and one bout of depression, but I don't recall Fleming's Bond experiencing a great deal of fear. Far more prominent was his courage. But I suppose that wouldn't resonate with "modern" audiences.

Largo's Shark wrote:

I think what Logan is getting at is more moments like the opening of SKYFALL, where Bond tries his best to stop Ronson's bleeding and stabilise him before medical evac arrives. He reluctantly has to leave him, and gives him a knowing look before moving on - knowing it's probably the last time he'll see him.

That fierce loyalty to one's friends is derived from Fleming, and is why Mathis's death in QOS jars so badly. Bond is a sentimental man at heart.

Bingo. Bloody bingo.

tiffanywint wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

I think what Logan is getting at is more moments like the opening of SKYFALL, where Bond tries his best to stop Ronson's bleeding and stabilise him before medical evac arrives. He reluctantly has to leave him, and gives him a knowing look before moving on - knowing it's probably the last time he'll see him.

That fierce loyalty to one's friends is derived from Fleming, and is why Mathis's death in QOS jars so badly. Bond is a sentimental man at heart.

This level of layering is acceptable, although I am also quite fine with the layer leveling we got from Rog in Spy Who Loved Me, and Moonraker too.

Honestly, I don't feel they layered it on very thickly in SF. To a certain extent, they did more of this in QOS, although they tended to apply the wrong shellac.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

I think Anya is probably one of the most confused characters in Bond canon. For instance, she is presented as "Triple X", a Russian female equivalent of Bond, but she's completely helpless when fighting Jaws and doesn't actually do anything of use in the field (except get caught). She is surprised by the way the Lotus Esprit turns into a submarine, but then claims to have previously stolen the blueprints to the car and displays a knowledge of the gadgetry that suggests that she should have known it was a submarine all along. And while she is angry enough with Bond to want to kill him, and even swears to kill him in revenge once their mission is over, Bond does nothing to change her mind except save her when she forgets all of her training and becomes a damsel in distress.

In retrospect, I think her inconsistencies are a by-product of TSWLM's tumultuous production. Bits and pieces of her character seem to have been salvaged from various drafts and shoehorned together. It really represents the problems with TSWLM's entire premise: it's a half-assed retread of YOLT. I often wondered if EON set up a similar premise in MR to have another go at making a coherent film.

A terrible, really unforgivable gaffe. Hard believe this made it into the final product. A slipshod effort by all involved.

FieldsMan wrote:

With regards to the Wet Nellie, I always gathered that she didn't think that the British would have made such a car. Anyone would have a semblance of shock when a car plummets into the ocean. Upon noticing the underwater features, she knows where everything is because she saw the blueprints.

A real stretch. The reality is that this was a very bad screenwriting mistake.

MBalje wrote:

http://screenmusings.org/CasinoRoyale/pages/CR_0532.htm
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Casino Royale (Mirror twist)


Skyfall

:scratch:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

A terrible, really unforgivable gaffe. Hard believe this made it into the final product. A slipshod effort by all involved.

It's like the writers decided to make Anya a Russian spy, and then forgot about it very quickly. When Bond and Anya leave Egypt, Anya apparently leaves all her training behind. She doesn't do anything remotely useful from that point onwards.

Jack Wade wrote:

MBalje wrote:

http://screenmusings.org/CasinoRoyale/pages/CR_0532.htm
Statue: So guys what we should come up next ?


Casino Royale (Mirror twist)


Skyfall

:scratch:

"Layers." Get it?

I love how Balje's mind works.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Jack Wade wrote:

MBalje wrote:

http://screenmusings.org/CasinoRoyale/pages/CR_0532.htm
Statue: So guys what we should come up next ?


Casino Royale (Mirror twist)


Skyfall

:scratch:

"Layers." Get it?

I love how Balje's mind works.

You understand how Balje's mind works, and that distuuuurbs me!

Python wrote:

The filmmakers definitely tried to make something out of the angle with Bond being the killer of Anya's lover, they were just half assed about it and didn't give it any more thought. Probably just how Tiffy prefers Bond films to be, pure formula that doesn't rock the boat too much.

Whoa Whoa. Leave me out of this. I have no opinions one way or the other about Bond/Anya. The discussion doesn't interest me at all. Bond and Anya have mission tryst. Its no deeper than that. I don't like or dislike. I don't care. Bond and Holly was same relationship. Mission tryst. Just better acted, which isn't hard when you are comparing with Bach
Bond's frivolous mission relationships aren't intended to be dissected or over-analyzed. Its pretty obvious what most of them entail ---not very much. Bond/Fields for example. The list is endless. Some of the earlier relationships had a little more meat on their bones because they were derived from Fleming, but post OHMSS there wasn't much going on. eg Bond/Tiffany, Bond/Solitaire, Bond/Goodnight, Bond/Anya, Bond/Holly etc.
Then we get to Dalts. I found his relationship with Kara to be utterly unbelievable. Dalts overplayed this IMO. His relatonships with Pam and Lupe made more sense, but again he went all puppy love with Pam too, when they first got down to business on the boat, after escaping the Barrelhead bar.
But that was Dalts-the romantic Bond. Brozzer's relationships with Natalya, Paris and even Elektra King, I thought had some heft. Well done, or well done enough.
The most interesting screen- Bond relationships aside from OHMSS, I thought were Bond/Honey and Bond/Domino.

The most interesting relationships for me would be:

Bond/Tanya
Bond/Domino
Bond/Tracy
Bond/Elektra
Bond/Paris
Bond/Natalya
Bond/Camille

FieldsMan wrote:

The most interesting relationships for me would be:

Bond/Tanya
Bond/Domino
Bond/Tracy
Bond/Elektra
Bond/Paris
Bond/Natalya
Bond/Camille

of those only:

Bond/Domino
Bond/Tracy

twig for me.

I wonder what would happen if you merged some of the worst Bond girls of all time. Strangely enough, I think you could create a very interesting character.

Firstly, she should have knowledge that is important to the plot, like Stacy Sutton. Bond needs her in order to be able to complete his mission.

Secondly, she should be capable, like Christmas Jones. Despite being poorly-acted, Christmas did have her moments - like when she hot-wired the blast doors in the missile silo. She should be useful, but without needing to be told what to do.

Thirdly, she should have some kind of impact on Bond that hasn't really been explored before. Perhaps he could feel responsible for her, like Mary Goodnight, or maybe guilty about getting her involved, like Paris Carver (though the guilt and responsibility angles were never really explored effectively).

Of course, the big risk in all of this is to fall into another trust story arc, with both Bond and the girl refusing to put their faith in one another. It's only natural for two strangers who are thrust together to feel that way towards one another, but it's easy to get bogged down in it. So their first encounter should involve something where they have to work together and naturally slip into that role. By the time they've both survived it, they should have already voercome inherent trust issues.

Also, I'd be very interested to see how a female writer would go working on a Bond film. I think that one of the problems with some of the Bond girls - particularly those styled as "Bond's equal" - is that they're written by men, and I get the feeling that some of them (Jinx is perhaps the most guilty of this) are really male characters being played by female actors.

Quote :

Also, I'd be very interested to see how a female writer would go working on a Bond film. I think that one of the problems with some of the Bond girls - particularly those styled as "Bond's equal" - is that they're written by men, and I get the feeling that some of them (Jinx is perhaps the most guilty of this) are really male characters being played by female actors.

You're obviously forgetting Dana Stevens (Michael Apted's wife) who had a hand in TWINE (brought in to polish Elektra).

Largo's Shark wrote:

Quote :

Also, I'd be very interested to see how a female writer would go working on a Bond film. I think that one of the problems with some of the Bond girls - particularly those styled as "Bond's equal" - is that they're written by men, and I get the feeling that some of them (Jinx is perhaps the most guilty of this) are really male characters being played by female actors.

You're obviously forgetting Dana Stevens (Michael Apted's wife) who had a hand in TWINE (brought in to polish Elektra).

Jesus, that didn't help at all there. I recall the original Purvis & Wade draft doing a better job with Elektra, I think that was posted here.

Largo's Shark wrote:

You're obviously forgetting Dana Stevens (Michael Apted's wife) who had a hand in TWINE (brought in to polish Elektra).

I was thinking more along the lines of a female writer who works on the film from the bgeinning. Not someone who is brought in at the eleventh hour to patch up dialogue.

I was under the impression that Dana Stevens did the first rewrite of Puvis and Wade. Bruce Feirstein (who then ended up with part of the screenplay credit) came in at the end. Feirstein getting that credit occurred fairly late in the process. The novelization still had it being based on the screenplay by Neal Purvis and Robert Wade, with no mention of Feirstein.

What did you make of SKYFALL, Solo?

Largo's Shark wrote:

What did you make of SKYFALL, Solo?

I liked it, if I gave it a letter grade, I'd say B to a B-plus. However, I also know in doing that I have to be willing to overlook some things (the DB5, which isn't the one he won in Casino Royale; M's culpability in getting a number of policemen killed by insisting on reading that poem while she *knows* Silva is en route, etc.). The DB5 actually got a good reception from live audiences I saw it with; so I guess you roll with it.

I see no reason for putting the gunbarrel at the end but I've come to the conclusion it's probably not going to be at the start again. Skyfall also had more Fleming content than Quantum, but some of it is taken out of context. For example, Bond went missing at the end of YOLT because he had amnesia. In Skyfall, i'ts a conscious decision because he's PO'd at M. On the ohter hand, one of the scenes I liked best was one of the quieter ones: where Bond stops his pull ups and collapses to the floor as soon as Tanner is gone.