Why Casino Royale is the best Bond ever...

Erica Ambler wrote:

Suppression of free speech is the hallmark of authoritarianism.

Kath wrote:

Freedom of speech. Tsss. Dragons, Santa Claus, the tooth-fairy. Unicorns.

Will Durant said, 'A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.'

Just to illustrate the problem, this quote is often attributed to his wife, Ariel.

But closing your eyes and saying that the misuse of power does not exist and that all men are benevolent men just marks you as the same kind of insane woman because you would have lost your ability to differentiate.

It's the generalisations where the problems come from. When we look at categories, biology and gender instead of individuals.

Kath wrote:

But closing your eyes and saying that the misuse of power does not exist and that all men are benevolent men just marks you as the same kind of insane woman because you would have lost your ability to differentiate.

I'm the last to deny that those who have power may abuse it but the elite's facade of benevolence has no value to me. Unlike habeas corpus and the presumption of innocence. We discard those at our peril.

Kath wrote:

It's the generalisations where the problems come from. When we look at categories, biology and gender instead of individuals.

You shouldn't deny biology, though the West has spent the last 75 years doing so: we're short, tall, weak, strong, dull, bright, straight, bent, male and female, and there's nothing that can be done about that. It's all in the genes; nature not nuture. I have no interest in wishful thinking or utopias but I'm all for extraordinary individuals.

After all, there's so few of us left.

Erica Ambler wrote:

Kath wrote:

But closing your eyes and saying that the misuse of power does not exist and that all men are benevolent men just marks you as the same kind of insane woman because you would have lost your ability to differentiate.

I'm the last to deny that those who have power may abuse it but the elite's facade of benevolence has no value to me. Unlike habeas corpus and the presumption of innocence. We discard those at our peril.

I am not sure if I get your point. Who is the elite with a benevolent facade and what does it have to do with habeas corpus?

Erica Ambler wrote:

Kath wrote:

It's the generalisations where the problems come from. When we look at categories, biology and gender instead of individuals.

You shouldn't deny biology, though the West has spent the last 75 years doing so: we're short, tall, weak, strong, dull, bright, straight, bent, male and female, and there's nothing that can be done about that. It's all in the genes; nature not nuture. I have no interest in wishful thinking or utopias but I'm all for extraordinary individuals. After all, there's so few of us left.

But these rules tell me that men think differently and communicate differently and are differently and that I can give up on talking to them without a dictionary for male language and culture. Because biology says so. That's the way it is.
That is the death of individualism.
Our genes do predict who we are, but we are not all the same. I'd say that the Y chromosome allows for variation. And that sometimes a XX can communicate with a XY without a dictionary.
Do my thoughts about Bond plot-lines differ from yours? Because biology says so?

I'm tired, but - to cut a long story short - the thing I find attractive in women is their otherness. The more that difference is eroded, the less interested I become.  Sexually at least.

So women are decorative puppets for men and men are dull pets for women?

Then I probably need a more elaborate explanation about the biological factor.

hegottheboot wrote:

Why CR '06 is not Bond at all.
Answer: The film itself.

I disagree.  One of the first things I noticed about the "gritty reboot" is that it is essentially the same formula as every other Bond film, just with a different veneer.

What are not traditional Bond films are Skyfall and Spectre, as they are the first movies to make such extensive use of the supporting characters.  It is starting to feel like a comic book universe.  Too much of an ensemble.  I liked it, but it does deviate from the standard formula.

You don’t know me wrote:

hegottheboot wrote:

Why CR '06 is not Bond at all.
Answer: The film itself.

I disagree.  One of the first things I noticed about the "gritty reboot" is that it is essentially the same formula as every other Bond film, just with a different veneer.

The issues with CR run deeper than a surface aesthetic (though it certainly doesn't help). The veneer is "gritty realism", but there are inherent narrative/structural and characterisation flaws before we even look at how it's being executed.

Quote :

What are not traditional Bond films are Skyfall and Spectre, as they are the first movies to make such extensive use of the supporting characters.  It is starting to feel like a comic book universe.  Too much of an ensemble.  I liked it, but it does deviate from the standard formula.

Skyfall is certainly a traditional Bond film - just the filmmakers were targeting the film to adults and not teenagers (like CR/QOS). And it also has the formula of the Bond films and of Fleming's novels. It feels like a post GF book, or FRWL/OHMSS/GE/TWINE.

SP, on the other hand, certainly feels like it's trying to set up another film, hence the 'comic book universe' vibe. The London portion in particular is both, strangely, un-Bondian and derivative. Up until that point (give or take some great flaws) it does try to harken back to the Bond formula, more so than CR/QOS and in that regard I have to give it some credit.

SF aside, Craig's era has been a shambles.

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Bond is at his most emasculated in CR, so I find that hard to believe...

But I do appreciate your levelling of gender politics, which has become rarer in your breed.

dude, the proper word is 'Sheilas'

Sarai wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Bond is at his most emasculated in CR, so I find that hard to believe...

But I do appreciate your levelling of gender politics, which has become rarer in your breed.

Ha! Yeah, you got me...