Downton Abbey

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the Mary/Matthew/Lavinia/Carlisle storyline as a whole in the second season (the relationship between Mary and Matthew worked quite well in the first series, not sure if you've seen it). I just like that scene and the one at the train station with the doll.

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The only really decent part of that whole story line was the notion that Mary may have to go live in the Unites States for a while and ride out the scandal of having had premarital sex with a Turkish man, but in the end it all worked itself out.

Yeah, I liked that idea a lot more and wasn't a fan of how it just conveniently sorted itself out in the Christmas episode. I just like the dialogue in that one (though it'd be served a lot better by just keeping the ambient music vs the obvious orchestral stuff) - or at least the way Michelle Dockery sells it. Frankly, something less conventional like Matthew and Mary going their own separate ways into stable marriages with that kind of unspoken past would've been more dramatically compelling. Kind of like Gosford Park's thing with Michael Gambon and the two sisters but with less hostility/sleeping around.

That's my biggest beef with the show, it'll breeze through some storylines super quickly but then drag others out ad infinitum (the Pamuk thing kept going for... eight years? And I'm no fan of Anna and Mr Bates which is so saccharine I can feel the stomach cancer growing inside me)

Vesper wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the Mary/Matthew/Lavinia/Carlisle storyline as a whole in the second season (the relationship between Mary and Matthew worked quite well in the first series, not sure if you've seen it). I just like that scene and the one at the train station with the doll.

That's my biggest beef with the show, it'll breeze through some storylines super quickly but then drag others out ad infinitum (the Pamuk thing kept going for... eight years? And I'm no fan of Anna and Mr Bates which is so saccharine I can feel the stomach cancer growing inside me)

I haven't seen any of season one or the first five episodes of season 2, so I'm not sure about the doll.

Yeah, Anna and Mr.Bates feels like one story line too many. I find the character of Carson very interesting. He's a servant, so he's lower-class, but he's at the top of the food chain among the servants, yet is taken into a lot of confidences by The Earl. He also seems to be a bit on the snooty side, but maybe that's just the English butler in him. I'm hoping this is a true slice of British history and not a work of fiction, because I find it really fascinating.

I like Lady Mary because she's got that really British, really nasal, really raspy, whisper-like voice going on, as if everything she says is said out of being annoyed with having to talk to other people. Sort of a poor-man's Rosamund Pike.

As I said, I like Carson. I also like the story of the promiscuous servant who got pregnant and was shunned as is now being fed scraps and contraband by the headmistress. But above all, I love the silly idea that these Brits can't get their pants on or clean themselves or take a proper bath or shower without a servant to help them.

M'Lady is a fan of British historical costume dramas, so we are ploughing our way through series two (American PBS had a marathon recently, so we have the whole thing stored up on PVR). We haven't seen series one, and I don't particularly care - I'm just waiting for Sir Roger Moore to join the cast, or make his guest appearance, or whatever it is they have planned. M'Lady's watching for Shirley McLaine.

BTW: Maggie Smith & Samantha Bond - who better to cast as mother & daughter?

AMC Hornet wrote:

M'Lady is a fan of British historical costume dramas, so we are ploughing our way through series two (American PBS had a marathon recently, so we have the whole thing stored up on PVR). We haven't seen series one, and I don't particularly care - I'm just waiting for Sir Roger Moore to join the cast, or make his guest appearance, or whatever it is they have planned. M'Lady's watching for Shirley McLaine.

BTW: Maggie Smith & Samantha Bond - who better to cast as mother & daughter?

You're really missing something if you don't see season one. I've gotten through the first 4 episodes and continue to be amazed at how good the show is. How I wish I could go back in time and live in 1912 England. Watching Downton Abbey has made me wish I had servants to dress me, to undress me, to feed me, to bathe me, to drive me, to call me "M'Lord". God I want to be an Earl or a Lord.

Watching this show has given new meaning to Jack Wade's comment in Goldeneye about 'stiff-assed Brits'. I mean, is this show for real? Was that what life was like back in 1912? Today? Drawing rooms and after-dinner tea? People just sitting around and having conversation?

Just finished episode 4 and laughed my ass off at the end, when Sybil comes down in a pant-suit instead of a dress, and the chauffeur is peeking in through the window smiling, like it's some cheesy 80's porno film! God I love this show!!!

Life was more or less like that in 1912, at least for the elites. But no TV show is ever a perfect recreation.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

[Watching Downton Abbey has made me wish I had servants to dress me, to undress me, to feed me, to bathe me, to drive me, to call me "M'Lord". God I want to be an Earl or a Lord.

You yanks can be rich and privileged, you can inherit wealth and property - you can even name your children 'Prince' - but you can never be Earls or Lords.

Many a woman in North America laments that she didn't get to meet Prince William, confident that if she had, he would have married her instead of Kate and then she would be a princess.

Never happen.

BTW, I love the scene in Patriot Games where, in the middle of James Fox's speech of gratitude, Anne Archer leans over and whispers mockingly in Harrison Ford's ear:

"Sir Jack?"

Without missing a beat he replies,

"Lady Catherine."

The way her expression changes from amusement to bemusement is priceless, and typical of a colonial with no idea of how things work.

Sorry, guv.

Hmmm...seems Lady Mary (Michelle Dockery) is on the cover of the new issue of Vanity Fair Magazine.

She reminds be of a brunette Rosamund PIke; and they both have a certain breathy, vocal quality about them, as if they're trying to speak and breathe in at the same time. Very sexyful!

Also, I just want to give Vanity Fair mad props for never featuring any "people of color" on the cover of their magazines. I've never read Vanity Fair, and never will, but I at least applaud them for not caving into political correctness and, instead, letting their freak flag fly and be who they want to be.

Bint on the left's the odd one out.

Who are the Beatles?

"They were pop stars in the 60s, like the Monkees and the Banana Splits."

Watching the second episode of the second season. Hugh Bonneville for M to Craig's Bond.

FieldsMan wrote:

Watching the second episode of the second season. Hugh Bonneville for M to Craig's Bond.

Big Bonneville fan as I am, more Tanner than M I think.

Also a fan here (although I still prefer the first series). And, indeed, Bonneville could be a good Tanner, or even a MoD type, IMO.

The third season is being advertised here in Australia for 2013. Now, season 2 was a little bit of a step down from the first, but it was still quite good. They are saying season 3 is the best season yet. Any truth in that?

I don't know. I don't watch Mum's TV.

Largo's Shark wrote:

I don't know. I don't watch Mum's TV.

Precisely, Sharky. Apparently the Christmas night ratings 'battle' between Beeb 1 and ITV will be fought with Downton and Call The Midwife :roll: .

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

I don't know. I don't watch Mum's TV.

Precisely, Sharky. Apparently the Christmas night ratings 'battle' between Beeb 1 and ITV will be fought with Downton and Call The Midwife :roll: .

oh for the days of Morecambe & Wise, Two Ronnies etc

FieldsMan wrote:

The third season is being advertised here in Australia for 2013. Now, season 2 was a little bit of a step down from the first, but it was still quite good. They are saying season 3 is the best season yet. Any truth in that?

Season 3 premiered last night in America on PBS (for those of us who can't afford BBC America) with a 2 hour premiere. Too early to say whether it's "the best season yet". I happened to think Season 2 was even better than Season 1, so make of that what you will.

What stood out for me? Well, I thought Shirley Maclaine's character, Martha Levinson, was just sort of...."meh". Thing is, it appears she was brought on to be some sort of arch rival or foil for The Dowager Countess, and Maclaine certainly brings a spark to her role and it is well acted, but ultimately it felt a bit redundant to me, because I think Isobel fills out that role much better than Martha. In my opinion, Penelope Wllton's Isobel is one of the unheralded, under-appreciated characters on the show. Her scenes opposite Dame Maggie Smith have never been anything less than pure gold. Bringing in Shirley Maclaine to give the American point of view about "change", on a show where, for two seasons, several characters have already embodied that point of view, just seems like a bit of an unnecessary reach.

Carson continues to be one of my favorite characters. Rigid, staunch....propping up the Crawley family and their traditions as if he were one of them, even though he is just a servant.

Hugh Bonneville gave what I thought was his best performance so far. You felt his pain, embarrassment, and shame for having lost the family fortune (although I must profess, that storyline would have seemed more appropriate for 1929 rather than 1920). It felt a bit shoe-horned into the overall narrative, I think, in order to add more tension and drama to Matthew and Mary's relationship (which I could care less about).

The show is at its best when it is exploring class distinctions, and in this episode I thought the subplot of Branson returning to the estate, not as the chauffer, but as Sybil's husband, made the biggest impression. It was tense...awkward....confrontational.....I just wanted to shove my fist through the screen and punch this character and make him conform a bit

The show is at its worst, I feel, when it devolves into soapy melodrama (case in point: Mary breaking down in tears and running away, telling Matthew he's not on her family's side if he won't attempt to infuse the estate with cash to keep it propped up; he wants a simple life, she wants to keep Downton Abbey running).

The new footman looks a lot like the old footman that died in World War I, which leads me to believe Daisy is going to fall in love with this new guy, but realize it was William she actually loved and just didn't know it. :roll:

All in all though, I think what makes this show continue to work is that, with the exception of Thomas, most of these characters are all likeable individuals....as flawed as some may be (O'Brien comes to mind). None of the rich are evil, and none of the servants are total saints either. You can relate to just about all of them.

FieldsMan wrote:

The third season is being advertised here in Australia for 2013. Now, season 2 was a little bit of a step down from the first, but it was still quite good. They are saying season 3 is the best season yet. Any truth in that?

Nope. Was willing to give the show another chance but it lost me for good with the terrible line "I feel like one of those Bright Young Things from the newspapers!"

There's no narrative or character arcs that really have any lasting impact. It's just Neighbours in a country house.

Do yourself a favour and download or buy the 5th series of Upstairs, Downstairs. It's infinitely better despite the cardboard sets.

Hmm... The preview is embarrassingly bad... Seriously: "Emotional. Scandalous. Etc." with no plot outline except for a wedding, which we knew from the end of season 2...

I'll still watch it though. Season 2 was a step down from season 1, but I still enjoyed it.

Some of the lovey-dovey stuff between Matthew and Mary in Series 3/Christmas special got too much. Much too much. Got to the point I'd rather have either a Carson spin off or...well just Bonneville.

Season 3: Episode 2

Well, whomever said that the Season 3 was the nadir of the series has been wrong....so far. Episode 2 was, I thought, nearly pitch perfect.

The best parts: Mrs.Hughes' quiet dignity as she confronts what may be cancer. Maybe I'm just going through manopause, but I wanted to cry with her when she was in her private quarters, looking as if she would break down and cry. I felt *EVERY* emotion she did. How many shows can you say you truly connect with the characters as if they were members of your own home? And the way Lady Cora told Mrs.Hughes that her place is in Downton Abbey, and never to think of where to live or how to take care of herself...that the Crawleys would take care of her no matter what....you see, the Crawleys are just like the rest of us...they just happen to need people to help them take their pants off, serve them their food, and brush their hair. I often wonder what it would have been like to be Thomas and have to constantly help an able-bodied man get dressed and undressed, or to have a "Lady Maid" who gives you a bath. Are these rich people so rich they don't have the time to even scrub their unmentionables without some underpaid servant hovering over them? LOL! But I jest. I love Downton Abbey. Every time I watch it it reminds me of the virtues of being American.

Another fantastic performance, and likely the most underrated actress and character on the show, is Penelope Wilton as Isobel Crawley. Episode in and episode out, her Isobel is more than just a perfect match for The Dowager Countess...she also breathes life and blood into the role of a woman roughly Violet's age or generation, but far more progressive, and liberal (religiously speaking) than Violet, and more open-minded about the changes coming to their lives. You'd never see Violet doing an outreach program to turn around the lives of local whores and prostitutes; Violet wouldn't be caught dead with one. But you see Isobel getting out there and trying to help others improve their lives, and not simply living off the largesse of some trust fund.

The scene at the altar...the rejection....the emotional breakdown of Edith (I have a sneaking suspicion this girl could end up as a suicide). I felt as much for Anthony dumping her as I did for Edith being dumped. What could have been a campy scene involving people fighting and throwing food at each other and duking it out in a coin fountain was instead done with taste, a bit of old fashioned realism, and some very sharp performances. Above all, I think this scene was the heart of what makes DA so good: none of the people in this scene are bad or despicable people. In fact, they're all trying to do with they think is, in the long view, the best thing for the other. Anthony doesn't want Edith to waste her life away on a much older man; she can't see that she's doing that. She insists she loves him, but a comment that slipped out from her may have revealed more about the way she sees him than he felt comfortable with: she basically tells him that looking forward to take care of him in his old age (which isn't far away, was what attracted her to him. I think it may have given him second thoughts).

Then Robert Crawley tries to calm Anthony back from the proverbial ledge, but Violet buts in and tells everyone to listen to Anthony because he's making a lot of sense and it is in Edith's best interests to marry someone closer to her age.

All very powerful stuff. I felt nervous and concerned that when her family went upstairs to find her, they'd find that she hung herself. Watch out for this one. She may have a death wish!

The weakest parts: Still don't give a rat's arse about Mr. Bates. That entire storyline between him and Anna is played out. Wouldn't bother me one bit if the entire affair was just dropped.

And I thought about how convenient it was for Matthew to receive a letter, more or less, from Lavinia, that absolved his conscience of all guilt, and allowed him to take the money and save Downton Abbey!!! Hurrah! What an amazing way to introduce, and then quickly wrap up, a perfectly pointless storyline.

this show looks boring and gay

Jack Wade wrote:

this show looks boring and gay

Thank you for adding that enlightened commentary. Please don't let us keep you from watching HERE COMES HONEY BOO BOO.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Jack Wade wrote:

this show looks boring and gay

Thank you for adding that enlightened commentary.

welcome