Last Bond Movie You Watched.

Also, the TAFFIN scene never gets old and the fact that it now has dance remixes and extensions makes me feel as if there is hope for humanity.

As for Sean in both TB and YOLT, it has taken me years but I think it can now be said that he is never bored onscreen. He is always professional in each film but only really shines when there is proper focus and direction present. Compare his work for Sidney Lumet and the first three Bonds with other things and you can see the difference. On TB, Young came back and what causes Sean to not come across as boldly as the first three is that there is more for the plot to take up in terms of focus and Bond himself is relegated to a lesser subject in his own film. But there is more of Sean's machismo for 007 if you can look past the odd pacing issues and the "everything but the kitchen sink" mentality, I think Sean is more engaged as Bond in TB than GF because GF is a much more relaxed atmosphere due to Hamilton directing.
But on YOLT Sean isn't bored. He just isn't the focus as the film is ginormous, based on the TB formula as ordered by the producer and has a director new to the series who must also simultaneously conduct a giant international production. Thus Sean comes across as even less of a factor than TB but still manages to do a professional job and maintain the character as had been built up-but overall it lacks the charge of the early performances because circumstances aren't the same. Ten years later, Bond is more of a focus in the story in TSWLM and Gilbert had his prior experience and thus Roger shines in a way that Sean couldn't on YOLT. Ironically Spy is of course a disguised YOLT remake.

I LOVE the YOLT Ning Po "seduction" scene when I used to find it awfully dull as a kid. The reason is odd. It is totally a copy of the Fiona bath scene in TB right down to the use of "The things I do for England" line which was cut in TB. (Where it didn't make sense.) Here the whole scene is made interesting because both are playing at false ends, both know the other is totally lying, but 007 is on top of the situation because only he knows the actual score and is playing Helga Brandt for all she is worth in order to give her a plausible cover story simply to get any leads and to get free. It's very subtle though because it's not as well written or setup as the same scene in TB. Sean plays it beautifully but the whole scene doesn't play well if you're not reading into the character motives. But as always, and particularly in this film Barry makes the thing breathe with some of the most gorgeous melodies ever composed. And Freddie Young could photograph a fly on the wall in widescreen and make it look like the most epic thing to ever exist.

Agreed on the points made for Roger and AVTAK. Despite the lowering of scale and repetition of plot elements, it does represent a return to more classical action adventure trappings as OP did. Roger has Fleming's notion of Bond as St. George the knight rescuing the maiden and slaying the dragon down pat in a way that no one else could or will ever do.

I love the fire truck chase and think it manages to remain serious, dangerous and motivated without lapsing in full comedy like the DAF Vegas chase did-yet it does manage to incorporate some of that chase's tone with the police car destruction etc.

hegottheboot wrote:

Roger has Fleming's notion of Bond as St. George the knight rescuing the maiden and slaying the dragon down pat in a way that no one else could or will ever do.

Well said, sir!

hegottheboot wrote:

I love the fire truck chase and think it manages to remain serious, dangerous and motivated without lapsing in full comedy like the DAF Vegas chase did-yet it does manage to incorporate some of that chase's tone with the police car destruction etc.

I agree, it's funny but in a dangerous Holy Shit kind of way

OO7 wrote:

Watched a View to a Kill last night and enjoyed the hell out of it. Sure Sir Rog's getting long in the tooth but he actually comes across as harder than some of his earlier movies. He never was the most athletic looking Bond anyway despite having beaten up Lee Marvin irl, apparently. Walken is very convincing as a total psycho and Tanya Roberts is gorgeous. The Bob Hope dangling from a fire truck ladder scene was pretty funny without making Bond look like a dork. All in all Moore manages to portray both humour and action without detracting one from the other. Every time the bad guys seem to get the upper hand  Bond manages to turn the tables like switching the tapes on the Russian agent. It's too bad Sir Roger didn't get the job right from the start, imagine if he had done 14 Bond films over about 25 years.

Good summary despite your closing sentence. I would never trade Connery's presence for Moore's.

Thank you, FieldsMan. Connery certainly did a good job of playing Bond and my main complaint about his era is the cheesy sfx especially the speeded up back projected rocks during the fight sequence on the Disco Volante in TB but I'm not one of those who thinks he's the greatest Bond possible. I do think that Sir Roger deliberately played Bond more for laughs because he himself felt that he couldn't match Sir Sean's portrayal. If he had the gig from the start I think he would have played it a little more seriously and done a splendid job.

If I may say so, 007 ... it's extraordinary to me that no other member of this board thought of registering under your username before you did!

OO7 wrote:

Thank you, FieldsMan. Connery certainly did a good job of playing Bond and my main complaint about his era is the cheesy sfx especially the speeded up back projected rocks during the fight sequence on the Disco Volante in TB but I'm not one of those who thinks he's the greatest Bond possible.  I do think that Sir Roger deliberately played Bond more for laughs because he himself felt that he couldn't match Sir Sean's portrayal. If he had the gig from the start I think he would have played it a little more seriously and done a splendid job.

There's a lot more to the Connery Bond films than special effects, whereas the opposite is true for the current era (SF aside).

I agree that Sir Rog is excellent in the 80s Bond films, with perhaps is best performances in FYEO and AVTAK, however Connery just everything that little bit better.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

If I may say so, 007 ... it's extraordinary to me that no other member of this board thought of registering under your username before you did!

I was gobsmacked that this username was available, too. It was as though Felix Leiter had shown up with a large envelope full of money so I could buy back into the big game.

Watching Tomorrow Never Dies atm. There is much to enjoy here such as Bond getting the upper hand on my favourite villain Dr Kaufmann and making it look like he committed suicide (talk about karma). His delivery of the line, "Me, too". Everything Kaufmann says especially his embarrassment when he must demand Bond open the car for Stamper. The fight scene in the soundproof room, "No one hears you scream". There was a little too much of Bond getting stomped without fighting back but when he finally does rouse himself to action it's good. Too much screaming like a little girl while riding the banner down the side of the building, the worst part being that it looked like the screams were dubbed in later. This is James Bloody Bond, he doesn't squeal.
And of course my pet peeve of the post GE era, the Bond girl who is Bond's equal. He's the bloody hero of the movie nobody is his equal. You can have henchmen he must outwit because they are stronger than him, but he's the one who must triumph in the end after overcoming all such obstacles. The only role that works in this vein is the computer programmer Natalya in GE because she has special knowledge that Bond could not be expected to know but she is given too many silly lines about boys with toys and don't you nasty men know anything but violence. In a way this meme is it's own worst enemy because the girl ends up needing prehistoric "mysoginistic" Bond to save her in the end, anyway. When she's looking out the back window of the car at Bond driving the tank with hope in her eyes she is undermining her earlier outburst in the interrogation scene. Now if the writers intended to present this female empowerment meme as being silly then they did a good job but I can't help but think their intention was the opposite. I think they were trying to update old-fashioned Bond and the audience is supposed to approve of it. I'm pretty sure they hired Judi Dench just to have Bond taking orders from a woman to make him pay for all his ass-slapping in the 60s. And again they ended up making her look like the idiot for not knowing that Bond was loyal, trustworthy and supremely competent.

Did you call ze Auto Club? That entire scene is genius on so many levels.

Wai Lin is not handled well as a character by the end. Michelle Yeoh can perfectly and effortlessly handle her own action film as a standalone. As an equal to Bond it could and should have been a perfectly matched and entertaining bout between the two agents a'la TSWLM and starts out as such. However the stealth boat climax tries it's best to undo this with the forced romance bits to the point that Pryce as Carver has the beautiful "How romantic..do you realize how absurd your position is?" Overall Wia Lin works though because the film is committed to her being a part of the plot and its conclusion and because Michelle Yeoh is already fantastic in these films. I've never liked the character because nothing really sparked off other than having the female-agent-character-who-can-match-wits-with-Bond-because-we've-done-this-before-and-have-no-script-and-isn't-Michelle-Yeoh-cool-ok-yes-let's-have-her-in-here. The best moments are her getting away scott free from Carver's HQ, the street shower scene and of course the start of the bike chase "Who's driving?" which for me is perhaps my favorite moment in the whole film.

In terms of Bond yelps the one that gets me is the yelp when his hand activates the fire breathing dragon prop. The skyscraper ADR yell is perhaps a bit too dialed up but is admissible due to both of them being a bit awed by their decision and surroundings.

I have no issues with Natalya these days. I used to hate her because of failing so many GE N64 missions but actually quite like the mixture of spunk and believable simplicity she has. Unfortunately I do think the character is underwritten in the film. There is a bit of backstory given in Gardner's novelization which is very welcome. I don't think her look in the rear window of Orumov's car is undermining-I think it is honest and hopeful because she knows Orumov will most likely kill her soon without any interference from this strange stylish Englishman who seems to know all about her and the shocking events that traumatized her at Severnaya and whose name she did not even know mere minutes before.

hegottheboot wrote:

Did you call ze Auto Club? That entire scene is genius on so many levels.

LOL, yes, indeed.

hegottheboot wrote:

I don't think her look in the rear window of Orumov's car is undermining-I think it is honest and hopeful because she knows Orumov will most likely kill her soon without any interference from this strange stylish Englishman who seems to know all about her and the shocking events that traumatized her at Severnaya and whose name she did not even know mere minutes before.

It's a very believable scene to be sure. She knows Bond is trying to save her and he's her only hope. I just meant that she went from giving Bond hell for being prone to viiolence to hoping he will inflict some violence on her captor which kind of undermines the women know best vibe the writers seemed to be aiming for at first. If they intended to portray that attitude as unrealistic and intended to show that men like Bond are necessary in this world to guard the flock from wolves then it was great writing

FieldsMan wrote:

There's a lot more to the Connery Bond films than special effects, whereas the opposite is true for the current era (SF aside).

Of course we can't blame cheesy 60s sfx on Sir Sean but he must shoulder the blame for this bit of eyebrow lifting;



Not to mention shooting from the hip

OO7 wrote:

Watching Tomorrow Never Dies atm. There is much to enjoy here such as Bond getting the upper hand on my favourite villain Dr Kaufmann and making it look like he committed suicide (talk about karma). His delivery of the line, "Me, too". Everything Kaufmann says especially his embarrassment when he must demand Bond open the car for Stamper.

I especially like how the news report says "the body was discovered by an unidentified man"... Is this Carver protecting the reputation of his company if it turns out Bond gets the upper hand? Is there the classic undercurrent of respect the villain has for Bond? Yes, excellent scene.

OO7 wrote:

Too much screaming like a little girl while riding the banner down the side of the building, the worst part being that it looked like the screams were dubbed in later. This is James Bloody Bond, he doesn't squeal.

Interesting observation. Imagine if Bond screamed as he skis off a mountain, or bungeed his way down to the facility in GE? I think there's definitely a fan edit in that.

HGTB pretty much nailed it in his response. I'd like to add that because the banner doesn't run down the entire building and the hope that it will hold. Part of me also thinks it's Bond mirroring Wai Lin's behaviour to flatter her and get her on side.

Above all, it's an effective scene in that serves both a narrative and symbolic purpose. Bond improvises his way out of deadly situation while tearing down Carver's ego, foreshadowing the destruction of Carver's empire.

OO7 wrote:

And of course my pet peeve of the post GE era, the Bond girl who is Bond's equal. He's the bloody hero of the movie nobody is his equal. You can have henchmen he must outwit because they are stronger than him, but he's the one who must triumph in the end after overcoming all such obstacles. The only role that works in this vein is the computer programmer Natalya in GE because she has special knowledge that Bond could not be expected to know but she is given too many silly lines about boys with toys and don't you nasty men know anything but violence. In a way this meme is it's own worst enemy because the girl ends up needing prehistoric "mysoginistic" Bond to save her in the end, anyway. When she's looking out the back window of the car at Bond driving the tank with hope in her eyes she is undermining her earlier outburst in the interrogation scene. Now if the writers intended to present this female empowerment meme as being silly then they did a good job but I can't help but think their intention was the opposite. I think they were trying to update old-fashioned Bond and the audience is supposed to approve of it. I'm pretty sure they hired Judi Dench just to have Bond taking orders from a woman to make him pay for all his ass-slapping in the 60s. And again they ended up making her look like the idiot for not knowing that Bond was loyal, trustworthy and supremely competent.

I think this is a gross misreading of GE as well as the post GE period. I'm sure the actresses are advised by Eon's publicity department to talk about how the women are different in the hopes of luring in female viewers. But since "Bond's equal" existed prior to GE, from agent Bond girls (Anya, Holly, Pam) to someone like Tracy who matches Bond in charm, courage and intellect that I'm not sure the films themselves have been too concerned with upstaging their main character with his female companion.

I don't think Natalya was ever intended to be a vehicle for any political statement (unlike CR06's Vesper). Her outburst in the interrogation isn't a statement. She's clearly afraid for her safety and Bond's able to get her out of an arrest by the very person who killed her colleagues. So her smiling at Bond's pursuit of her as she's taken away by Ouromov isn't undoing any feminist work because it wasn't there to begin with. It signifies that she is starting to trust Bond and is flattered by the lengths he is taking to ensure her safety - something her own countryman isn't allowing.

As for Judi's casting, it was a stroke of genius in GE and the character is effective in Brosnan's era. Her M looks like an idiot in the first two Craig films, I agree. But in the Brosnan era, DAD aside, she never doubts him, but even then the evidence about his betrayal is compelling enough to warrant it. But it's downplayed that she seems a bit regretful she has to do it, as though deep down she knows Bond wasn't being disloyal to save his own skin - as she said it could have been the drugs. I digress. Her scene with Bond in GE is more about them cutting through the bullshit so they can get on with working together. She has opinion on Bond but she knows he is her best agent despite the "flaws" might view him to have.

HGTB wrote:

Wai Lin is not handled well as a character by the end. Michelle Yeoh can perfectly and effortlessly handle her own action film as a standalone. As an equal to Bond it could and should have been a perfectly matched and entertaining bout between the two agents a'la TSWLM and starts out as such. However the stealth boat climax tries it's best to undo this with the forced romance bits to the point that Pryce as Carver has the beautiful "How romantic..do you realize how absurd your position is?" Overall Wia Lin works though because the film is committed to her being a part of the plot and its conclusion and because Michelle Yeoh is already fantastic in these films. I've never liked the character because nothing really sparked off other than having the female-agent-character-who-can-match-wits-with-Bond-because-we've-done-this-before-and-have-no-script-and-isn't-Michelle-Yeoh-cool-ok-yes-let's-have-her-in-here. The best moments are her getting away scott free from Carver's HQ, the street shower scene and of course the start of the bike chase "Who's driving?" which for me is perhaps my favorite moment in the whole film.

You lost me at "perfectly matched a la TSWLM". Anya is probably the weakest of all agent Bond girls (maybe aside from Kissy). She gets two heavies to fight with Bond in Egypt. Even Holly packs a better punch. How Anya became the said top Russian agent probably says more about the strength of her knees than anything else.

I think it's obvious they are to find each other attractive, from the helicopter ride. Her hard to get act is charming enough in the helicopter, but their steamy shower scene shows there's an obvious attraction, as is their planning in her bike shop and on the boat. And even the "don't get an ideas" helps plant the seeds of a romance. I love the scene when they sail in search for the stealth ship. Their chemistry underscores much of their planning and Arnold's music is perfect for it, as is Elswit's cinematography.

I like the yelp at the fire breathing prop. Show's a bit of vulnerability.

His eyebrow lifting and the shooting from the hip is part of what makes it so good. I wish there was more shooting from the hip, if I'm perfectly honest. I was glad to see Craig do it in the SF titles sequence, though he looks awkward when he does it.

Oh geez, Anya could knock anyone though the wall with that deep gaze.

I mean in terms of story in that Wai Lin is set up in an XXX type role as a foreign agent who eventually must team up with Bond and of course shagging ensues at some point. In a way the overall plot devolves into TSWLM in terms of story construction which itself redid YOLT in that fashion but I digress.

I used to hate the dragon yelp but I agree now being older I find it plays just fine. The Ha Long Bay sequence is the only real time we get that allows for a breather and a developing relationship if you don't count the knowing looks in the Bike shop kitting out.

I do count those knowing looks in the bike shop. I see the sense of urgency in TND to be one of the film's biggest strengths, even at the expense of a fully fledged romance with the lead Bond girl. However, those little moments allow for a rounded character, as if Bond really would like to bed this bird but wants the time to enjoy it - which is what the end shag will allow, after the mission is completed. It also allows for the audience to disengage after said dalliance so we're not attached to a 'meaningful romance'. We know it's casual sex and no need to press for something more. Of course, something along the lines of Kara (or even Elektra, at least before we learn of her true intentions) is good because of greater emotional investment, but you do wonder what happens between missions that leads to never hearing of them again. The books answer these questions sometimes (i.e. Tiffany).

As for Anya, so much could have been done to enhance such an excellent dynamic. What if Gogol really wanted Anya to kill Bond after the mission, much like Dench's M wanted Bond to avenge Ronson's death?

And to link the ideas in the above paragraphs together, imagine if we got some kind of mention of Anya later on? That she had been thrown into the gulags, or even killed for voluntarily sleeping with the (traditional) enemy? I know Bach was intended to return in AVTAK. I would have preferred Fiona Fullerton in TSWLM, then have her AVTAK cameo.

FieldsMan wrote:

I especially like how the news report says "the body was discovered by an unidentified man"... Is this Carver protecting the reputation of his company if it turns out Bond gets the upper hand? Is there the classic undercurrent of respect the villain has for Bond? Yes, excellent scene.

I hadn't thought of that, good point.

FieldsMan wrote:

I'm sure the actresses are advised by Eon's publicity department to talk about how the women are different in the hopes of luring in female viewers. But since "Bond's equal" existed prior to GE, from agent Bond girls (Anya, Holly, Pam) to someone like Tracy who matches Bond in charm, courage and intellect that I'm not sure the films themselves have been too concerned with upstaging their main character with his female companion.

I'll grant you that the meme appears more blatantly in the publicity campaign than in the movies themselves but I maintain that there is a big difference between having competent female characters and the more recent emphasis being put on the character being "his equal". Gala Brand, for example, is essential to stopping Moonraker from landing on London because she knows the gyro settings like the back of her hand but she is not his equal. Bond doesn't like dumb bimbos, he likes sensible women and so must Fleming since he wrote them that way. I don't recall Bond ever slapping a woman in the books, either, that seems to have been a Hollywood thing. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
The dragon yelp was unforgivable, totally beyond the pale. Imagine Martin Riggs, John McClane or Harry Callahan yelping in a situation like that. Everyone involved in that travesty should be keelhauled. And why exactly does he need to show vulnerability in any scene?

The vulnerability seems to have become more of a thing from Dalton onwards ... it seems that Bond is no longer to be presented as (to quote Guy Hamilton) 'a kind of joke Superman'.

THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS

Surely this must be the most overlooked contender for best Bond film. The strongest performance by a leading actor, the best action scenes, the best "espionage/Cold War feel," and one of the strongest scores (astounding that after 25 years at the helm - on and off - John Barry could still retain the traditional flourishes whilst capturing the sound of 1987). To my mind, practically flawless despite the villains not having white cats or whatever.

OO7 wrote:

I'll grant you that the meme appears more blatantly in the publicity campaign than in the movies themselves but I maintain that there is a big difference between having competent female characters and the more recent emphasis being put on the character being "his equal". Gala Brand, for example, is essential to stopping Moonraker from landing on London because she knows the gyro settings like the back of her hand but she is not his equal. Bond doesn't like dumb bimbos, he likes sensible women and so must Fleming since he wrote them that way. I don't recall Bond ever slapping a woman in the books, either, that seems to have been a Hollywood thing. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
The dragon yelp was unforgivable, totally beyond the pale. Imagine Martin Riggs, John McClane or Harry Callahan yelping in a situation like that. Everyone involved in that travesty should be keelhauled.  And why exactly does he need to show vulnerability in any scene?

Well Natalya fits that brief: she's sensible, competent and certainly not a bimbo.

I also don't understand why Bond expressing some surprise for accidentally setting off a disguised flamethrower is a big deal. Bond showing some vulnerability displays that he's not superhuman. I know that's what Craig-Bond wants you to believe, but Bond is a man. There's a reason Ebert called Brosnan's Bond the most psychologically complete.

CJB wrote:

THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS

Surely this must be the most overlooked contender for best Bond film. The strongest performance by a leading actor, the best action scenes, the best "espionage/Cold War feel," and one of the strongest scores (astounding that after 25 years at the helm - on and off - John Barry could still retain the traditional flourishes whilst capturing the sound of 1987). To my mind, practically flawless despite the villains not having white cats or whatever.

Pretty much. Whitaker and Koskov are effective villains for the film. Only comparatively are they forgotten.

Part of the appeal is that Koskov and Whitaker are a pair of schmucks motivated by pure greed, rather than supervillains bent on remaking the world.

I'd also restate that Dalton is head and shoulders above any other 007 lead in terms of acting chops - regardless of whether he was the best or coolest cinematic Bond. The man can convey a million emotions with just his eyes. "I got the message."

Agreed re: the villains.

As for Dalton, the vast majority of the film he is James Bond, and the example you give perfectly explains why. Pushkin's interrogation and the "stuff my orders" scene also demonstrate this. I personally just can't get passed his occasional inability to charm, whether's it to seduce or to merely quip. As I've said, it's just a little dorky (at times). Though it's a little more endearing here than in LTK, since his romance with Kara is deftly written.

The 'physical humour' side of Bond never sat terribly well with Dalton (hence the excising of the 'magic carpet' bit from TLD). Pretty good with a dry one-liner, though ('Salt corrosion', 'Sorry!', 'Correct ... you should've brought lilies'.)

FieldsMan wrote:

Well Natalya fits that brief: she's sensible, competent and certainly not a bimbo.

I also don't understand why Bond expressing some surprise for accidentally setting off a disguised flamethrower is a big deal. Bond showing some vulnerability displays that he's not superhuman. I know that's what Craig-Bond wants you to believe, but Bond is a man. There's a reason Ebert called Brosnan's Bond the most psychologically complete.

I agree about Natalya except for a couple of her lines shoehorned in for PC purposes.

I once lit a bbq that unexpectedly flared up enough to burn off my eyelashes and singe my eyebrows. I did not yelp even though I'm not a superhero. The dragon situation called for an eyebrow lift and a wisecrack at most if it had to be included at all. The script can show that Bond is not a superman by not having him do unbelievable superhuman things. Having him squeal like a little girl is not an option. This is not negotiable.

I've always loved Dalton's Bond movies. He really had the hardnosed killer down pat