Last Bond Movie You Watched.

My mate from the above post came around again and wanted to give Tomorrow Never Dies a watch and, well, I'm one to honour my guests' needs. He really dug it. He loved how inventive the action was and really responded to the dialogue. Halfway through, as I topped up my Vesper, I asked if he preferred Goldeneye. He said so far, he did, because of the location work in GE took him somewhere different. I said it would change as we head to Saigon and when it finished he commented about how he'd love to check out Vietman (he's extensively travelled Europe but not Asia) and having seen Ha Long Bay and Saigon, he wants to go. He appreciated the local colour in the second half. Having finished it, I asked again which he preferred of the two, he again said Goldeneye, but he really enjoyed Tomorrow Never Dies as well. Hearing that, I felt almost as giddy as seeing Hatcher's dress hit the floor. It was particularly nice to hear because he has excellent taste in film so I felt it validated my own experience with TND-- not that I need it, as you all know I'm happy to wave the TND flag alone, just it's not often you hear as high praise for Brosnan's 2nd Bond film.

As for me, I find I love watching films I've seen countlessly with others who hadn't seen it before because it's like discovering them for the first time. So that's the experience I had with it. And just as I had when I first watched it, I cannot wait to watch it again. One thing that stood out more than usual: Stamper. He might just crack the top 10 henchmen for me. There's a sense of relish to his villainy. He's also rather muted for most part. So he's a great counterpoint to Carver's showman charisma.

This is one of my favourite shots in the second half. The music, the tracking photography, the colour, the location-- it's one of the moments where it all marries so perfectly for me.



Oh and bitchcraft, I thought of you when we got to the scene where Carver mocks Wai Lin on the stealth ship. I wasn't sure how he'd react to it but it gave my mate the biggest laugh of the film, commenting how much fun Pryce would have had when it came to shooting that scene.

Bangkok stood in for HCMC/Saigon when TND was filmed. The scenes in TND (as in that screenshot) were more reminiscent of Hanoi or the North more generally; Saigon looks a lot more like a Westernised, big city.

Yes I'm aware of that, and we do get a sense of that more 'Westernised, big city' when Bond and Wai Lin arrive by chopper to Carver's building. But on the flip side, some of the streets do look like the above screencap. Unlike say, Montenegro which looks nothing like how it does in CR06. I feel TND shows how locations can double for others rather successfully.

" as you all know I'm happy to wave the TND flag alone, just it's not often you hear as high praise for Brosnan's 2nd Bond film.'

why is that? it has the most relevant plot in any Bond film and more so today than ever, one of the best villains, Michelle Yeoh in a a realistic female kick ass role
you can definitely make the argument its the best Brosnan film

I like TND quite well. I just wish there was a bit more dialogue and plot in the back half, and somewhat less action. The first third of the film is about as good as it gets.

That's fair and it is easy to imagine a better plot line or more follow through on it like the plot itself manipulating Bond and his reality right down to the last few minutes.

Sarai wrote:

That's fair and it is easy to imagine a better plot line or more follow through on it like the plot itself manipulating Bond and his reality right down to the last few minutes.

It's true, one could take the idea of media manipulation in multiple directions, but some of those options fall into the trap of making it personal, and I'm not sure it's the right way to go, especially considering the climate of Bond films today. I particularly like, however M telling Moneypenny Carver's death was suicide. Nice bit of irony and means of using the villain's tool against him, even after death. Perhaps MI6 could have released reports of Carver's death prior to it happening, pressuring Bond to make sure he succeeds. I don't know, I love it as it is.

Sarai wrote:

" as you all know I'm happy to wave the TND flag alone, just it's not often you hear as high praise for Brosnan's 2nd Bond film.'

why is that? it has the most relevant plot in any Bond film and more so today than ever, one of the best villains, Michelle Yeoh in a a realistic female kick ass role
you can definitely make the argument its the best Brosnan film

Beats me!

Good to see more love for the plot and villain.

PK wrote:

I like TND quite well. I just wish there was a bit more dialogue and plot in the back half, and somewhat less action. The first third of the film is about as good as it gets.

Bike chase aside, the best bits for me in the second half are the quieter moments - the street scenes in Saigon, Bond and Wai Lin planning their assault in the shop and on the boat and 007 assembling his 'back up plan.' Top stuff!

I like Carver's demise and the destruction of the stealth boat.

That too. Also Arnold's Wai Lin motif is incredible.

Apropos of nothing...

Moonraker

time to switch off, virus' and everything and go for broke. I got distracted by Moore's hair at the shooting scene, I mean...got to be? No...well, it matters little.

Freddie has now simply become "You know the Minister for Defence", there's Bond's little look when he goes to leave and Q heads him off, the look to M as if to say: Oh no. Curiously, it struck me, that the shot of Q looking peeved that flashes to Bond in the centrifuge is actually after Bond walks out of M's office so not a shot he'd have seen of Q.

But no matter how often I watch it the moment he presses Goodhead's hand away (and seems to squeeze it) or Corinne's death are topnotch Bond moments and yet...it's in this film. Indeed, Carry On Moonraker could've sprung up when at the glass factory the woman says go wherever you please. If that had been Sid James he would've been on her like a rash.

Aside from Chang somehow getting through Venice dressed as he is, there's something about Bond's expression throughout the fight. Faintly pissed, disgusted even.

Though Lee could've done with a better final film, there's something about it that is poignant -I guess because you know it was his las Bond film. Though clearly Sir Freddie and M are fans of sci-fi if they both recognise Close Encounters...!

Top score by Barry though, the tragedy remains there is no complete version of it. Not official anyway.

Makes me wonder, if there had been no Star wars what would this film have been? Now yes it was meant to be FYEO (re: TSWLM's end credits) but what would Moonraker had been otherwise if you assume Eon intended on using all of Fleming's titles some point.

Hilly wrote:

Makes me wonder, if there had been no Star wars what would this film have been? Now yes it was meant to be FYEO (re: TSWLM's end credits) but what would Moonraker had been otherwise if you assume Eon intended on using all of Fleming's titles some point.

Can't imagine we'd be having little men in spacesuits shooting each other with laser guns. Sure, the Moonraker missile Fleming wrote about may have looked quaint 25 years on and so they'd have to sex it up, but I doubt that they'd have shot Bond up into space without the Star Wars influence.

I mean we certainly didn't get DAF In Space in response to 2001.

"Docking for extraction, Mr Wint?"

"Just probing the surface, Mr Kidd."

No Star Wars means a version of FYEO that plays out like a mishmash of MR aka TSWLM version 2.0 but with some FYEO elements in there. For example the minijet chase leading into being caught and having Drax on a yacht where he keelhauls Bond and Holly and Bond has the limpet mine in place from the LALD novel. This is from Wood's earlier drafts so I presume it would have been in the FYEO 79 film.
Barry's score has that perfect otherworldly feel to it with the haunting ethereal strings. It leads right into his beloved Somewhere in Time score but is FAR better because it has scope, scale and a real darkness to it that music snobs ignore because Bond is not viewed as art by the masses.
MR is a damn good picture simply for its riches and great scenes-and the fact that ALL THE MONEY IS ON SCREEN. Sure there's silliness and 70's ness and it's TSWLM 2 down the line without a break between-but it works doggone it and remains largely credible outside of JAWS the cartoon, dumb gags, Bondola and space lazer battle. however those add spice and whimsy which are things banned today.
And it being made in France makes it sand out all the more as looking so damn sumptuous and non-UK produced like everything else excluding LTK. Not to mention it helps to disguise the whole Drax is Stromberg in SPAAAACE.
We all love Holly, the wrist dart gun, Roger's serious scenes, the battle of the sexes banter, the score, the globe trotting, the darker scenes, the wittiness of Wood and a tiny bit of Mank for the last time....but best of all is Michel Lonsdale who absolutely NAILS every last second onscreen. Not to mention Ken Adam's final extravaganza combined with Derek Meddings going above and beyond to produce effects that STILL hold up all without any of the special equipment built for Star Wars.

And ALL done while dodging the tax laws! Funnily enough if Lewis Gilbert hadn't been available they could've gotten Guy Hamilton who had just lost Superman because the Salkinds decided last minute to go back to the UK and he wasn't able to work there for same said tax laws.

The best thing about MR is that it gave us FYEO. If we didn't get this MR, the other version of FYEO would likely be inferior.

CJB wrote:

"Docking for extraction, Mr Wint?"

"Just probing the surface, Mr Kidd."

Best BAB post of the year.

Hmm ... a Star Wars-less Moonraker, closer to the novel. Interesting thought.

They'd possibly have had to update Drax's motivations what with it being 30+ years after the end of WW2, but a plot to drop a nuke on London still sounds enough of a 'large-scale' thing for Bond.

Drax's motivation could have stemmed from some kind of betrayal on a mission, kind of like how they handled Alec in GE.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Hmm ... a Star Wars-less Moonraker, closer to the novel. Interesting thought.

They'd possibly have had to update Drax's motivations what with it being 30+ years after the end of WW2, but a plot to drop a nuke on London still sounds enough of a 'large-scale' thing for Bond.  

Would love to see this. The way is there. But what about he will?

I think a most faithful MR would have only worked had it been the first in the series. As appealing as the thought is, I think DN was the best choice at the time, being the most recent book plus retaining all the ingredients. We wouldn't have had an exotic location in Jamaica and Bond doesn't end the mission with the girl. DN sets the precedent for the rest of the series. It might have worked out differently had MR kicked things off.

The Moonraker chat led to me popping the Blu-Ray on yesterday.

A mixed bag, it's fair to say ... for all the good (Lonsdale, the centrifuge bit, Corinne's eerie death-by-Dobermann, the score, the still-excellent effects, sets and modelwork) there's bad to undercut it (some truly rotten back-projection, the cringeworthy attempts at humour with Jaws (and his 'conversion' to the side of good), the 'Bondola' (and That Bloody Pigeon) ).

It is a mixed bag, but it's not trying to be FRWL or even YOLT.

It's almost jarring how the film mixes edge-of-your-seat and dark moments (centrifuge, Corinne's death et al) with the pigeon, laser guns, and big tooth guy in space etcetera elements. I don't know if this inconsistency hurts or helps the film to be honest, but I've long learned not to look at Moore's entries with an overly critical eye. They're never try to be something they're not on a holistic level.

First time I noticed that Lewis Gilbert can be spotted amongst the tour group in the glass museum. Muscling in on MGW's cameo action, lol.

Well, MGW did get promoted to a speaking role in MR so someone had to fill his shoes.

CJB wrote:

I've long learned not to look at Moore's entries with an overly critical eye. They're never try to be something they're not on a holistic level.

Exactly. The difference is tone. Which is why I find much of the Craig era more jarring than the lighter flicks of the series.

well, if the difference is tone chaps, should've brought lilies…

The Living Daylights

I won't rehash it, or maybe I will. It seems a crime to watch this and not comment on the forum.

Roger who? There's enough in this PTS to make you wish that there should've been more Dalton outings. Aside from the fact this Bond seems to keep getting jumped/startled by leaping animals, it's the look in his eyes. I like to think it's just Dalton, the way the eyes narrow after that sodding monkey when he's on the ledge in Gib' or as he swings atop the Land Rover, as he dangles in the chute after the Rover blows up.
There's something when he clashes with the assassin in the Rover that has an element of "ave it!"
What seals the deal is that Dalton seems to be more stunt-worthy than a Bond has been for a decade.

I sat through the titles this time. I don't dislike the song but with a film of TLD's calibre I usually want to get going ASAP. But this time, man don't you miss the 80s? Or at least 80s Bond titles? The dancing Bond and girl, the hairstyles, the fact these women seem on some sort of drug and then at the end, the luscious blonde in a martini glass...If NTTD has any of that, I'll eat my hat.

And then after, you get a grimy Eastern Bloc locale. Wet streets, rundown feel etc. I'll guess I will rehash how the characters of Saunders and Koskov are sublime. You go from loathing one and liking the other at the start, to mourning one and hating the other by the end. Also, how about Dalton snaps the rifle into action prior to seeing the girl? Savage. (The closest I can think of our Craig is when the DB5 is blown up in Skyfall). Imagine Dalton in Skyfall though. The grim look as he leaps onto the Tube train, the weary expression as he drives off out of London with M bitching about the seat, the shower scene's tenderness with Severine and a Caroline Bliss 'Penny shaving him...ahem

I still laugh at his "you're the first" and slamming the lid. Sure Dalton didn't seem to handle humour well but then it didn't always seem correct how it was slotted in sometimes. Half of his one liners seem to be truncated by something else. The you need to know line as the car window goes up, the boot line as a bloody mountain peak appears etc.
Now imagining him in a Casino Royale. The way his hand would scoop the hair from Vesper's neck on the bed (perhaps a similar gesture to Brosnan and Paris in TND), reaching for the telephone and saying at the end, "...the bitch is dead."

Tell you something, way my mind works, Koskov really had his body and nerves pushed in his fake defection (and imagine if it got out how many pounds were spent by SIS/MOD on doing so, I mean that Harrier must've involved big poundage).
Now I wonder how many people groaned at the living daylights line in the cinema.

I don't smoke myself but love the sight of Bond smoking in Q's office. (Surely Q Branch would be a no smoking place...!?) This scene could've done with Jeremy Bulloch's Smithers you know.

Good ol' Green-4 fighting Necros. I guess we could say's a SIS redshirt but the fact he goes down fighting. Even after having his face scorched.

And how about Penny in the second appearance, her hair, the specs, the black clothes...Be still my heart (and what a shame no more of her in the franchise. I could've seen her in Goldeneye alone).

As much as I like the film, I never seem to care for Bond liking classical music ("It was exquistite"). I can never imagine Fleming's Bond taking time to sit and listen to music. He's at a club, he's with a married woman, he is off around the world...But Dalton does well anyway. I could imagine Fleming, if alive, being verging on 80 and having a private screening. Leaning forward, cigarette going whilst three rows back John Glen, MGW and maybe Dalton look on nervously.

Closest Bond gets to superhero powers, the funfair. Casually shooting away all night you imagine vexing the vendor by miles.

Oh look, it's John Terry who at one point seems to wake up mid-sentence.

The airbase scene early on is not too bad. Got to like Dalton's "Kara we're in a Soviet airbase in the middle of Afghanistan" and D'abo's "Now? What about later?"

I never minded Kara, she's not the best Bond girl but she's not the worse. There's a real feel to her, that she's a girl who's slid into this world unintentionally, she's in love and so on and she goes through with it. Dare I say, like Stacey. Though she is a bit much during the airbase fight. I mean come on my girl, he's trying to get the Herc' off the ground.

Art Malik is a delight.

And then you have one of the best sprawling set pieces since forever it seems, the airbase fight. So much is going on across the board (and I still think too hard about Dalton in that Herc', I guess of course there's someone in the co-pilot seat out of shot doing the taxiing -that actual shot of him in cockpit gesturing at Kara). And it's swiftly followed by the aerial fight to end all aerial fights. Never struck me before just how red Dalton's face gets when Necros has him pressed into that webbing. This and Moonraker's PTS make you really appreciate the work stuntmen do. (or to be fair like Grace atop either the bridge in VTAK or aircraft in OP). Got to love the growing desperation of Necros as Bond gets closer to kicking him loose, the way he grabs at Bond just after Bond cut loose the heroin. And the fact he begs at the end. Tough man.

Bond helps out the Afghans. Imagine, not even fifteen years later he'd be fighting them.

And then it seems utterly inconsequential about Whitaker. I mean by then the film's done the job as far as I'm concerned. Would've worked had Whitaker been at the airbase, blown up in that bowser and Koskov being who Bond takes on at the end.

And we're spent.

10/10

The six-year gap after LTK not happening and Dalton doing an additional 2 in '91 and '93 as a result is a tempting thought.

A four-film era would have suited Dalton's Bond fine, bridging that late 80s to early 90s gap. And still segue into the Brosnan era.