David Arnold's Romantic Themes

I know we touched upon it in threads already but listening to City of Lovers when writing, I can't help but shake that Arnold was either trying to ape his Paris & Bond track from TND or maybe that's just how he rolls for romance.





The only other score of his I'm truly intimate with so to speak is Independence Day and in that you have what is variously known, on whatever copy of the expanded you can find, as either First Lady Dies or Death of the First Lady.



now ID4 is 1996, just prior to TND which is in itself of course nine years prior to CR. (This is where it helps being Sharky). Any composer worth their salt tends to copy/shade what they've done in many of their scores. We'll ignore the most obvious offender, the late James Horner, but say for example John Barry -his scores of a certain period (Robin and Marian, They Might Be Giants, High Road to China through to Raise the Titanic) all have a certain sound similar. So for Arnold, he too would sound similar. Now Vesper is a different track in its right to Paris & Bond (and City of Lovers seems to be the better version of the Vesper use) but somehow, in my tonedeaf ear, it feels similar if not blatantly so. TND is the better score, it has more originality (as far as Arnold goes) than CR. It'll be interesting if he ever returns, it's already been eleven years.

I've no idea of the point of this thread either. I'm not bashing Arnold, just certain themes with composers draw comparisons.

One improvement I think he makes with CR is that he goes for those romantic cues during montage where there's minimal dialogue, particularly "City of Lovers". I felt him doing that in TND when Bond and Paris embrace just felt too over the top. But going over the top isn't something Arnold ever quite shook off from any of his scores. With "Vesper" he reasonably dials it down to make it more intimate.

Still the best variation I think is his more haunted take in QOS with Bond drinking six martinis.

I need to revisit the QOS score at some point, it didn't leave a favourable impression last time. Sound points on TND and CR. Paris & Bond can work better in isolation removed from the scene in question (or applied as "The Last Goodbye").

Of course there's also Christmas in Turkey from TWINE which bears more in common to Vesper than Paris & Bond would.

Which was reused in the ending of DAD of course.

I could certainly understand Arnold's desire to ape his Paris and Bond track since it's so beautiful however I really can't see a resemblance between it and Vesper's Theme/City of Lovers beyond perhaps similar instruments used. Even then, there's no piano in Paris and Bond.

Hilly wrote:

The only other score of his I'm truly intimate with so to speak is Independence Day and in that you have what is variously known,  on whatever copy of the expanded you can find, as either First Lady Dies or Death of the First Lady.



now ID4 is 1996, just prior to TND which is in itself of course nine years prior to CR. (This is where it helps being Sharky). Any composer worth their salt tends to copy/shade what they've done in many of their scores. We'll ignore the most obvious offender, the late James Horner, but say for example John Barry -his scores of a certain period (Robin and Marian, They Might Be Giants, High Road to China through to Raise the Titanic) all have a certain sound similar. So for Arnold, he too would sound similar. Now Vesper is a different track in its right to Paris & Bond (and City of Lovers seems to be the better version of the Vesper use) but somehow, in my tonedeaf ear, it feels similar if not blatantly so. TND is the better score, it has more originality (as far as Arnold goes) than CR. It'll be interesting if he ever returns, it's already been eleven years.

I've no idea of the point of this thread either. I'm not bashing Arnold, just certain themes with composers draw comparisons.

Now there is Wai Lin's Theme/Surrender. From 2.12 in that clip. Gorgeous.

MP wrote:

One improvement I think he makes with CR is that he goes for those romantic cues during montage where there's minimal dialogue, particularly "City of Lovers". I felt him doing that in TND when Bond and Paris embrace just felt too over the top. But going over the top isn't something Arnold ever quite shook off from any of his scores. With "Vesper" he reasonably dials it down to make it more intimate.

I disagree. Adds so much weight and subtext to the Paris and Bond scene. He may have dialled it down with Vesper, but still doesn't capture the complexity of her character. Very sanitised and far too clinical for it to feel intimate.

MP wrote:

Still the best variation I think is his more haunted take in QOS with Bond drinking six martinis.

This I agree with. The reverb adds a great deal to the theme, capturing his 'ghost', that is Vesper.

Adding weight and subtext? The scene was practically text without the music accompanying it. That's what I mean by over the top. The scene really called more for a Barry approach where the music doesn't dogpile but rather underlines the scenes. As it is, the scene feels obnoxious to me. Like most of the film.

But to give a compliment to TND: "Hamburg Break In" is the kind of thing I wish Arnold indulged in more.

But then Barry never did need to score such a scene when Bond reunites with an ex-girlfriend.

There's so much subtext to that scene but I know you're intent on running it into the ground. Bond, as an agent, could easily use Paris to get information. Bond, as an alpha male, wants to fuck her senseless. But he knows what would happen if it did. After all, we know a reason why he left was because he wanted to protect her from being caught up in his life, though perhaps he didn't love her enough to part ways with his job. The music underscores that dichotomy. Or dynamic rather. There's so much happening here it's a crime to ignore all the shades.

Xmas in Turkey has my favorite slow Arnold moment of using the Bond theme in the piano plying the riff. And then DAD does the same with less panache and goes for full "I want to be YOLT" which is distracting.

I feel like he had to record these piecemeal sometimes as we know for sure he did on TND, and also suffered from feeling he had to follow the classic sound instead of fully embracing his own. My all time favorite moments are his cues where he simply is himself and doesn't try to do "the Barry sound". His romantic themes come and go over the course of each film and work best when they are allowed to play freely such as in the death of Paris, searching for Wai Lin, touches in the Azerbaijan approach, bed scenes with Elektra and the like.

I think Arnold does very well with his romantic cues (Vesper's Theme still sounds nice, just not suitable for the character itself). I agree that Arnold working in the Bond theme into Christmas In Turkey is beautiful, but I there are even better, richer romance themes, like A Touch of Frost, Paris and Bond, or as you mention, Elektra's Theme and Searching for Wai Lin.