Last Bond Movie You Watched? 1.0

Feminism has not been the primary complaint with QOS; anti-westernism and general politicization has.

I thought the primary complaints with QoS were its terrible action and poor storytelling.

Anyway a lot of the lines coming from Judi Dench during the death of Fields are a feminist's dream.

Louis Armstrong wrote:

I thought the primary complaints with QoS were its terrible action and poor storytelling.

Anyway a lot of the lines coming from Judi Dench during the death of Fields are a feminist's dream.

Primary, secondary complaints. Take your pick. The magic of QoS is that it can be savaged on so many levels.
Pick your poison.

It was my 10 year old nephew's first Bond film and I thought that would be an excellent pick. He enjoyed it and exclaimed during the space laser battle "Cool! That's like Star Wars!"

The boy's a budding Ebert.

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

The boy's a budding Ebert.

Oh, I hope he's much better than that. :)

Did a Bond double bill yesterday with:

Thunderball
Wasn't planning on watching it, but I'm so glad I did. It was so much fun, as it usually is. Was the guy who dubbed Tanaka the same guy who dubbed Largo? I really enjoyed his performance - same with Claudine Auger's, which I usually don't like as much, especially compared with Palazzi's Volpe. Anyway, I've said all of this before.


Die Another Day
On the last two viewings, I found less enjoyment. Jinx annoyed me even more than she usually does. The parasurfing scene left me feeling humiliated and most of the dialogue was quite bad. But there is still some good aspects. I have to say I love how Cuba was captured. It was really vibrant, and Tamahori gave us some nice, warm shots. Good to see some local colour. And Brosnan's performance is really good up until everything goes haywire in Iceland. I quite like the score - more so than Casino Royale's. It's fun but terribly flawed.

Oh and I would say bring Rosamund Pike back for a lead part, but she'd probably be the main reason why I'd watch DAD again!

FieldsMan wrote:

The parasurfing scene left me feeling humiliated

Oh God. Oh God.

Tell me what happened.

FieldsMan wrote:

how Cuba was captured. It was really vibrant, and Tamahori gave us some nice, warm shots. Good to see some local colour.

I quite like the score - more so than Casino Royale's.

Definitely agree with these two points. The Cuba exteriors and the Raoul scenes are among the very few things I like from that entire era of Bond. Cigars, decent ally character, local colour, a classic car instead of a modern plastic-looking, gimmick-ridden shitheap.... Hell, even Arnold's score is decently vibrant in those scenes. In fact, I rate Arnold's DAD score as the lesser of his five evils, a score in which he sounds fairly enthused and fully embraces what he does best; taking very minor melodies and making something more pulsating out of them through decent use of techno.

Quote :

Definitely agree with these two points. The Cuba exteriors and the Raoul scenes are among the very few things I like from that entire era of Bond. Cigars, decent ally character, local colour

Pretty much Lazenby. So many things that make you feel like you're actually visiting Cuba. The strong sun through the shades, the fans, a convertible car to enjoy the breeze, etc, etc. You could feel the heat, and I really liked that. And for that to be created during its apparent winter months is pretty impressive. All of this started out rather well. And then you meet Jinx, and her terrible dialogue. They shouldn't have given Brosnan a close up during that scene. You could tell he was cringing at what he was paid to say: "They feast. Like there is no tomorrow". Halle Berry's tolerable until she says "Till dawn"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN5SMi0kH1k&feature=related

EDIT: Look at the comments of the video.

"Terribly flawed" is putting it kindly, FM. ;) But we all know you're a nice guy.



I'd, personally, call it a fucking mess.

FieldsMan wrote:

The parasurfing scene left me feeling humiliated

The scene is even more fun when you put the extras disc in next and listen to the filmmakers break down the scene in painstaking detail, and wax on for 20 minutes about how challenging it was to get that water effect just right. A lot of hard work went into creating that cartoon, I mean that life-like parasurfing stunt.

Lazenby. wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

how Cuba was captured. It was really vibrant, and Tamahori gave us some nice, warm shots. Good to see some local colour.
I quite like the score - more so than Casino Royale's.

Definitely agree with these two points. The Cuba exteriors and the Raoul scenes are among the very few things I like from that entire era of Bond. Cigars, decent ally character, local colour, a classic car instead of a modern plastic-looking, gimmick-ridden shitheap.... Hell, even Arnold's score is decently vibrant in those scenes. In fact, I rate Arnold's DAD score as the lesser of his five evils, a score in which he sounds fairly enthused and fully embraces what he does best; taking very minor melodies and making something more pulsating out of them through decent use of techno.

Yes I did like the whole Cuba sojourn. That was very well shot. The hideous Jinx/Brozzer beachside dialogue aside, the whole episode, from Bonds arrival, to meeting Raul, to the action at the gene therapy clinic, Bond and Jinx's escapes, I thought were all well done and beautifully shot.
For me, DAD unraveled after they left Iceland. I do like all the Iceland action, especially the car chase, Bond's showdown with Frost and Graves on the mini DAF Whyte House homage set, Bond's sneaking around the complex, the snowmobiles. The colour schemes are really nice. They look great on blu-ray.
The whole CGI heavy, Robocop airplane episode though kinda lost me. It was just almost too much after all the excitement in Iceland.
The movie might have benefited from a less CGI action-heavy finale but this film is not known for its subtlety. I know - understatement.

About the car in Cuba. I've always thought that was an homage to the car ride Bond takes with Dr. No's driver at the beginning of DN.

Fields you mention the cold season and the Cuba scene. Wasn't the Cuba scene shot in Spain?

tiffanywint wrote:

For me, DAD unraveled after they left Iceland. I do like all the Iceland action, especially the car chase, Bond's showdown with Frost and Graves on the mini DAF Whyte House homage set, Bond's sneaking around the complex, the snowmobiles. The colour schemes are really nice. They look great on blu-ray.
The whole CGI heavy, Robocop airplane episode though kinda lost me. It was just almost too much after all the excitement in Iceland.
The movie might have benefited from a less CGI action-heavy finale but this film is not known for its subtlety. I know - understatement

I liked most of what they had to offer in Iceland. I love the Ice Palace - I think it is one of the best sets in the franchise. I love the scenes between Bond and Frost, particularly the one where they need to "convince" Mr Kil, and their love scene. The car chase was a bit too gimmicky, but it's still fun at least. The whole ice yacht sequence that leads to the parasurfing is pointless. Honestly, after Bond runs down the dome, Bond could have just hopped into his car, that still would have been camouflaged from the night before and the car chase could have started from there. From the ice yacht sequence, I think that's where the film begins to fail, save for the car chase and Miranda vs Jinx fight. Though even that ended incorrectly. Miranda should have come out on top. Even better, Jinx should have choked on that fig back in Cuba, and be replaced with Peaceful Fountains of Desire. That'll teach her for trying to be like Bond.

But there are so many questions: why does Graves and Miranda leave Zao behind? Doesn't Graves think Miranda will win the fight, so he throws away her parachute? Etc etc.

Quote :

Fields you mention the cold season and the Cuba scene. Wasn't the Cuba scene shot in Spain?

Yup, it was shot Cadiz during winter IIRC. And apparently Jinx was supposed to come out of a waterfall pond or something.

FieldsMan wrote:

I liked most of what they had to offer in Iceland. I love the Ice Palace - I think it is one of the best sets in the franchise. I love the scenes between Bond and Frost, particularly the one where they need to "convince" Mr Kil, and their love scene. The car chase was a bit too gimmicky, but it's still fun at least. The whole ice yacht sequence that leads to the parasurfing is pointless. Honestly, after Bond runs down the dome, Bond could have just hopped into his car, that still would have been camouflaged from the night before and the car chase could have started from there. From the ice yacht sequence, I think that's where the film begins to fail, save for the car chase and Miranda vs Jinx fight. Though even that ended incorrectly. Miranda should have come out on top. Even better, Jinx should have choked on that fig back in Cuba, and be replaced with Peaceful Fountains of Desire. That'll teach her for trying to be like Bond.

So harsh!
The ice yacht scene was stupid but at least it led to the snowmobile scenes which I did like, plus it did allow for a rather good line, where Graves sidekick gets excited over Bond breaking Graves speed record. Its always a nice touch when Bond can rattle the villain's ego like that.

Quote :

But there are so many questions: why does Graves and Miranda leave Zao behind? Doesn't Graves think Miranda will win the fight, so he throws away her parachute? Etc etc.

Best not to try and make sense of the film but I'll try anyway. Maybe Graves and Frost figured he'd catch up after killing Bond.
As for the parachute dilemma maybe Graves had simply forgot about Frost by this point. He just wanted to save his own ass, and screw over Bond. Frost was on her own.

Watched QOS last night. From a strictly technical standpoint, this is a very good Bond film. The acting is excellent and the film is visually impressive. With better editing and a more coherent script, it would be technically brilliant.

QOS is also quite riveting. Despite the film's flaws, it grabs the viewer and holds him through the final frame.

Now I've ragged on QOS' politicization of Bond and I still detest this aspect of the film, but I do at least respect that the writers told both sides of the story. Beam's sardonic, "You're right. We should only deal with nice people" is one of the better lines in the film. As are Felix's "There's no such thing as a free lunch" and the Defense Minister's pithy defense of realpolitik, "If we didn't deal with villains, we'd have nobody to trade with." It is also heartening to see earnest and ultra-sensitive enviro-types played for fools by Quantum. Perhaps, as Bond said, America will get into bed with anybody, but the environmentalists will believe anybody who tells them what they want to hear.

No, what really bothered me about QOS was its leaden, oppressive atmosphere. Bond films are supposed to be interlarded with a certain amount of joie de vivre, and this is completely absent from QOS. In its place is a sombre melancholy that leaves one vaguely depressed. I, for one, do not watch Bond films in order to feel badly, and I don't think I'm alone in that regard.

Your analysis is hard to disagree with, Kowalsky! QOS indeed has the frame of what should've been an excellent Bond film, but for various logistical and creative reasons, the frame wasn't filled up too well. The much-maligned theme of trust is of course a factor not just between M and Bond but also with the villains. Philantrophists, environmentalists, politicians - anyone who preaches anything - what are their real interests, their real intent? It's no doubt a relevant theme that didn't go too far in QOS though because Greene was secondary to Bond's mission. And while I still think there are hints to the joie de vivre (Mathis' villa, the hotel), the film doesn't take nearly enough breathers to alter the overall mood of the film.

I think QoS has a lot of great humour. In fact I'd say it's one of the funnier Bond films, but the humour's so dry I guess it goes over many heads. Not that I dislike dry humour, quite the opposite actually.

QOS is the least humorous film outside of DN. And no, it's not because the alleged humor goes over my head.

:roll:

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

QOS is the least humorous film outside of DN.

You shared your opinion, I shared mine...

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

And no, it's not because the alleged humor goes over my head.

...and I wasn't referring to you in particular.

:flower:

Louis Armstrong wrote:

Not that I dislike dry humour, quite the opposite actually.

I like dry humour too, but what we got offered in QOS were largely piss poor attempts at it. "He should have made a deal with a priest", "she's sea sea sick", "Could you help me... find the stationary" et al... I admit, a few gags work, like the florists, cheap wine, and sabbatical lines, but most of it's pretty dire stuff. As if the writers couldn't be boverred or somin.

Quote :

No, what really bothered me about QOS was its leaden, oppressive atmosphere. Bond films are supposed to be interlarded with a certain amount of joie de vivre, and this is completely absent from QOS. In its place is a sombre melancholy that leaves one vaguely depressed. I, for one, do not watch Bond films in order to feel badly, and I don't think I'm alone in that regard.

You hit the mark here, Khanster. I recall you once made a comparison to DN in its lack of humour. You might be right, but I think in terms of atmosphere and sense of fun, they're worlds apart. QOS is saturated with weltschmerz, and more than that. It's laden with a kind of high brow earnestness that can't laugh at itself. When a Bond film fails to see its own absurdity, it becomes a bore.

Weltschmerz and a deadly earnestness--I believe those go a long way toward explaining why QOS is a bit depressing. Additionally, much of the film takes place in Haiti (the poorest nation in the western hemisphere), and Bolivia, which is not much better off. The film is also almost totally devoid of smiles. Forget smiling and laughing, the best one gets from QOS are melancholy, almost lachrymose expressions.

Louis Armstrong wrote:

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

QOS is the least humorous film outside of DN.

You shared your opinion, I shared mine...

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

And no, it's not because the alleged humor goes over my head.

...and I wasn't referring to you in particular.

:flower:

No harm, Louis!

:)

Most of the dry humour did go over my head.
I was too sick with worry about the Bolivian water situation and solidarity with our brothers and sisters in the global south. That was the film's message wasn't it?
I hope Bond went back and helped out digging wells (sorry, stole that line from another board)

Best thing about QoS was Olga. She looked great in that orange top and skirt outfit. She's the smokiest of all the Bond girls and I do like the way she lipped off at slime ball Greene.

Camille was terrific. But she was also one of the most depressing features of QOS. She seemed perpetually hurt, which, of course, she was.

Helga Kurlenko is one of my favorites.

Not of the Bond girls, though, but of the Baker Street girls.