Jeffrey Wright Not Likely Returning for Bond 23

Loomis wrote:

Isn't that why Jack Lord never returned as Leiter, and indeed why Leiter has always been strictly rationed in screentime (not to mention mostly played by actors who were, to put it as kindly as possible, not particularly likely to upstage Bond in looks and style)?

And you're saying Cec Linder wasn't a sexy man? I suspect Connery didn't want Lord in Goldfinger because he didn't want the competition, but who knows.

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Speaking of which, the following "conspiracy theory" has just occurred to me: was David Hedison rather than John Terry cast as Leiter in LICENCE TO KILL, the film in which Leiter probably has the most screentime and certainly has the greatest amount of plot significance, because the filmmakers feared that the 62-year-old Hedison was less likely to take female attention away from Dalton than the 39-year-old Terry in an enlarged role? Safer to have an avuncular old Felix than a young American version of Bond who might just steal too much of the limelight?

Uh, no. First of all, John Terry couldn't take attention away from a wet paper bag, and I don't think there was a whole lot of women going to see Dalton because they thought he was sexy; certainly not in the way they've turned out for Craig. Maybe if Dalton had worn a banana hammock emerging from an ocean he'd have done more than 2 films.

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IIRC, the "official" explanation for casting Hedison was that, as he'd played Leiter in LIVE AND LET DIE, the audience already had "history" with him in the part and thus the tragic events befalling the character in LICENCE TO KILL would hit home harder than if they recast the role.... but the logic of this strikes me as highly questionable, since it seems to assume that that minority of the LICENCE TO KILL audience who had reasonably fresh memories of LIVE AND LET DIE would even remember that Leiter had been in that movie, let alone that he'd been played by Hedison, and also that even if that small percentage of cinemagoers in 1989 did remember those details they'd give a flying one.

I agree with you that the logic is assailable, but that's not the entire story. I think it was Dana that said she or someone else spotted Hedison leaving a gym in Santa Monica one day, thought he looked fit, tan and trim, and decided to bring him back as Leiter. And, quite honestly, THAT does seem the more plausible explanation, because it's exactly the sort of pointless logic that EON has employed in the past that gives it the ring of truth and credibility.

Harmsway wrote:

tiffanywint wrote:

I say get rid of Wright all together and stay with the tradition of surprising us with different Leiter actors as the character is needed or desired.

That "tradition" didn't work out so well.

Au contraire. I liked it just fine.

jaguar007 wrote:

tiffanywint wrote:

Nice knowing you Jeff, but if Eon can dump Jack Lord, they can dump you too.

Except I don't think Wright is asking for pay and billing equal to that of Daniel Craig.

Yes. We know that one of the reasons Lord didn't continue was that Lord, understandably, might have wanted to max out his role.
But I think more to the point, Eon, wisely, did not want the Leiter character, coming anywhere close to being a Bond peer or equal or even sidekick. Leiter needed to be no more than a Bond foil.
It's not a coincidence that when he returned two films later, Leiter was cast as a balding middle aged guy, (as opposed to having Lord's obvious leading man potential) who existed only to support, assist and re-inforce our hero's legend status.
I don' think Lord was coming back, even if he worked for free. He was too alpha-male himself. Eon was determined to promote the legend that is 007, which they did to the tune of bonanza box-office.
Leiter I feel was doomed to play a very peripheral role from day one.
An added bonus of mixing up the Leiters was the recurring device, which Eon used to great effect going right back to Dr No, whereby Leiter was unrecognizable to the audience until identified for us by Bond.
As QoS was a direct sequel to CR, retaining Wright as Leiter made sense, but I don't think he's needed anymore.
Now mind you, Eon does seem to want to break with much of the past Bond traditions. Nothing appears to be sacred. We've lost MP and Q. We've lost the opening gun barrel. We've lost the JB theme blasting away during the body of the film. We've lost the character himself to a large degree, as he's painstakingly worked through his trust and betrayal issues, not to mention his scaled back womanizing.
It's a whole new Bond world, so Wright may very well reappear as Leiter down the road or be re-cast with a very similar looking actor. Babs seems to want experiment with a whole new way of doing Bond.
Personally I think box office will ultimately rule. If the re-envisioned films stumble financially, I believe there will be pressure to return to tried and true formula, beginning with a more conventional re-casting of the lead character.
In the meantime we will just have to see what Babs/Craig and Mendes serve up. B23 will be the pivotal entry of the re-boot project. The origins saga is done. Lets see what kind of Bond we've actually got, six years beyond the difficult events of CR/QoS.

I'll miss Wright if he's not in Bond 23, as I liked him in Casino Royale, but if he doesn't need to be in the film then fair enough. I suppose one could argue that there was hardly a massive need for him to have been in the last Bond film either.

tiffanywint wrote:

Harmsway wrote:

tiffanywint wrote:

I say get rid of Wright all together and stay with the tradition of surprising us with different Leiter actors as the character is needed or desired.

That "tradition" didn't work out so well.

Au contraire. I liked it just fine.

I didn't. It resulted in Leiter being a character we didn't care much about, with portrayals of wildly inconsistent quality. Most of the time, he was a complete bore.

I enjoyed Jack Lord, Cec Linder, Norman Burton and David Hedison as Leiter.
Rick Van Nutter - meh, while John Terry I thought was awful.
Lord, Linder, Burton and Hedison each brought an engaging personality to the role. Van Nutter gave a rather restrained performance while Terry seemed lost.
I thought for the most part Eon got things with right with Leiter. They generally got animated performances out of actors who were cast in a small role to be a foil, straight man or sometimes comic relief vis a vis our larger-than-life hero.

tiffanywint wrote:

Eon....got animated performances out of actors who were cast in a small role to be a foil, straight man or sometimes comic relief

Right. While at no time coming close to approximating the individual character of Leiter or the relationship between Bond and Leiter that Fleming wrote of. You describe a relationship similar to Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon. I'm surprised EON didn't just hire Bozo The Clown.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

tiffanywint wrote:

Eon....got animated performances out of actors who were cast in a small role to be a foil, straight man or sometimes comic relief

Right. While at no time coming close to approximating the individual character of Leiter or the relationship between Bond and Leiter that Fleming wrote of. You describe a relationship similar to Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon. I'm surprised EON didn't just hire Bozo The Clown.

But that was Eon's intent, to discard Fleming's Bond/Leiter relationship. They charted that course when they dumped Lord for Linder in GF.

tiffanywint wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

tiffanywint wrote:

Eon....got animated performances out of actors who were cast in a small role to be a foil, straight man or sometimes comic relief

Right. While at no time coming close to approximating the individual character of Leiter or the relationship between Bond and Leiter that Fleming wrote of. You describe a relationship similar to Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon. I'm surprised EON didn't just hire Bozo The Clown.

But that was Eon's intent, to discard Fleming's Bond/Leiter relationship. They charted that course when they dumped Lord for Linder in GF.

You may well be right. And if so, it's a decision I continue to rue.

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

You may well be right. And if so, it's a decision I continue to rue.

To each his own :) I got a kick out of both Linder and Burton, the two least Fleming-like Leiters of the bunch.

tiffanywint wrote:

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

You may well be right. And if so, it's a decision I continue to rue.

To each his own :) I got a kick out of both Linder and Burton, the two least Fleming-like Leiters of the bunch.

I understand, tiffy. It's just that I'm such an admirer of Fleming's Leiter that I'd really love to see the character realized on screen, and that has not come close to happening. To my mind, it's a terrible omission. Outside of Lord, and to a lesser extend Wright and Van Nutter, the cinematic Leiters have left me flat.

Here's my take on Eon's evolution of Leiter.
First off they play it straight. They are bringing Fleming's books to the screen at long last, so they cast Leiter fairly close to what Fleming had envisaged - a vital, quite capable, American-agent, somewhat like Bond himself, but take pains to limit his role and really showcase their new Bond stud.
Two films later, they realize this Connery Bond is a big deal, after the combined successes of DR and FRWL. So with GF, the decision is made to bring back Leiter, but just to make sure that there is no mistaking who the star of this show is, Leiter will be switched from a Bond-equal type to an older but engaging, friendly, wise-cracking field liason to play off our star hero.
GF is a smash success. Bond-mania is in full bloom. Up next TB.
"OK we got to bring back Leiter again but we need him to be a little more physical for this Bahamas adventure.
Ok so no more older guy. Lets bring back a Lord-like Leiter, in fact a Lord clone, but not Lord himself, as we don't want him thinking he's going to be throwing punches or anything."
So Van Nutter is cast and Young and company, get the idea to do the DN gag all over again, where the audience thinks the fit looking sunglass-outfitted guy, keeping tabs on Bond, might be an enemy agent, but then we pull the same joke all over again, and Bond reveals it's his old pal Leiter. Hah-hah. The audience relaxes, with a satisifed, "you got me again" look.
So Van Nutter dutifully plays his role as Bond's able field-assistant.
OK of enough of Leiter for a while.
Six years later it's time for Sean's glorious return.
"We need Leiter again, but Sean's a little older now. Can't have the staw-haired physical Leiter.
"Guess it's back to Linder/Leiter.
"Hey this Burton guy will do. He's kinda funny and ornery. He'll make a great, very American, older foil for our hero. He can jest with Bond but also bitch about Tiffany Case, not being tossed in the slammer. He's so crabby and square, he'll make even Sean, the middle-aged Beatles basher, and his pink tie, look hip and cool.
"Hey, I'm down with that. It's the 70's.
DAF is a roaring success but the legend has retired.
"OK we got Rog taking over. We need to surround him with some good people in his debut. How about this David Hedison? He's very American and a big TV star like Rog. Let's toss him in, so Rog has someone to play off of, but we'll just make sure he plays the usual support role and we'll dispense with that nastiness that Fleming wrote."
Well, Rog is a huge succes, and now here we go full steam with Scaramanga and the new guy Stromberg and Star Wars Drax is on tap.
"We won't be needing Leiter for a while. Park him. We'll mix things up with a grab-bag of field allies to help out Rog.
"OK, well the Rog era is done, and this more serious Shakespearan Bond seems to be obsessed with finding the Fleming Bond. All right we'll give him a guy that at least kinda looks like Leiter, even if he can't act the part. That way we throw Timbo a bone but make sure no real buddy relationship kicks in, as Terry has no idea how to play the role.
"Thanks Terry, you failed the audition best, so you get the part."
"Thanks Mr. Glen. I'll remember you guys down the road when I'm a big TV star on Lost."
"No problem John, now remember, play this like you just flunked out of acting school. Timbo's the star. He even gets your girlfriends.
"OK Dalts is doing OK. He's earned himself another movie. Ok so what are we doing? We're working in that grisly Leiter biz from LALD? All right, well we can't use Terry again. We need a better actor. The role is more central to the story now. Hmmm.
" Hey,Dana says Hedison is looking pretty buff these days. She saw him coming out of a gym.
"Great idea. Give him a call. The guy can act and he's aged enough that he's no longer a threat to upstage Timbo, plus he's the original LALD Leiter anway.
"It's perfect. Man are we smart. This is going to be great.
"OK, that's it for three decades of Bond. Everyone take a good long break while the lawyers fight over the property. They'll probably have the skinny Irish guy, with the pouffy hair, who thinks he's American hired by the time we come back.
"Welcome back everyone and welcome to the Brozzer era. Ok do we need a Leiter?
" No he's history. Babs wants to mock the CIA, so we've got big fat Joe Don Baker back, former villain actor, to play big buffoon Wade. Har de har. Babs has already picked out a Muffy tattoo and loud shirts for him too.
"OK that's done.Should be a real yukfest. Forget about Leiter.
"Ok welcome back everyone for the re-boot. Hope you all enjoyed the layoff."
"Hey whose that puggy guy wearing Wade's shirt over there. He must be one of the new Le Chiffre thug-muscle."
"Actually he's playing Bond"
"Ok whatever. Is Wade back?"
" No Leiter's back."
" Wahhh. I thought Babs ditched the guy"
" No she relented when she saw the chance to really shake things up by casting a person of colour. Babs is very progressive, don't you know"
"Ummm, wasn't that already done though. Bernie Casey, anyone?"
"Shhhh. Don't tell her. No-one at Eon has seen that film. They pretend that movie doesn't exist"
"OK mum's the word."
" And it gets better. Gym-body Bond and new Leiter get to do a kinda gay bar-scene in the next film, but only those tuned to the subtext will pick up on it."
"Wow, Babs is progressive"
"Its a whole new Bond world not to mention Leiter world"

"OK quiet on set. And............ cue the finger-sucking!"

I always like seeing Leiter get involved in things, and if he's out this time I'll certainly miss him. Would like to see him get even more solidified in this new era as Bond's friend and ally (though he's clearly that by the end of QOS). Not to mention that Wright's cooler than the backside of your pillow.

If the story's good and engaging and there are interesting people to help Bond along the way, I'm all for it, Leiter or no. It's a tough line to walk sometimes; I don't usually like when it's just Bond and the girl vs. the villain, with no help; on the flip side, shoehorning in characters just to be the comic buddy doesn't make for a good story, either.

With the locations and the general tone that might be expected with the acclaimed talent on the crew, this may be a good opportunity for a Kerim/Columbo type.

No Leiter? Clearly J Deaver didn't have much to do with the script then. I assume JD Pepper's deputies won't be featured either, then.

What a shame.

Skudor wrote:

No Leiter? Clearly J Deaver didn't have much to do with the script then. I assume JD Pepper's deputies won't be featured either, then.

What a shame.

If I understand you , you seem to be saying Leiter isn't vital to a Bond film, anymore than JW Pepper is.
If that's what you are saying, I can't disagree. Leiter only featured in 4 of the first 7 films (the classics) and then in only 3 of the next 9. That's less than half of the pre-Brosnan era films.
You know, the Cubby years, before Babs rose to power, from DN to LTK.
GE forward is a whole new Bond world. The Dench years, you could also call them 8)

tiffanywint wrote:

Skudor wrote:

No Leiter? Clearly J Deaver didn't have much to do with the script then. I assume JD Pepper's deputies won't be featured either, then.

What a shame.

If I understand you , you seem to be saying Leiter isn't vital to a Bond film, anymore than JW Pepper is.
If that's what you are saying, I can't disagree. Leiter only featured in 4 of the first 7 films (the classics) and then in only 3 of the next 9. That's less than half of the pre-Brosnan era films.
You know, the Cubby years, before Babs rose to power, from DN to LTK.
GE forward is a whole new Bond world. The Dench years, you could also call them 8)

I'm not quite equating Leiter with Pepper (that's a bit tongue in cheek) - what i am saying is that I'm pleased they aren't shoe-horning every re-curring peripheral character into 23).

Leiter, as I see it, is someone who makes life a bit easier when Bond needs to deal with the CIA in that he's a known entity, but that's about it.

Ya know, I'd rather see Greg Beam return in Bond 23. Maybe as Quantum No. 12, to be haplessly thrown into a pool of Portuguese Man o' War, for embezzling offshore funds. He's a far more entertaining character than Wright's Leiter.

True, Leiter wasn't really a necessary character and had little enough to do. Beam's entertainment value is certainly higher.

Kennon wrote:

True, Leiter wasn't really a necessary character and had little enough to do. Beam's entertainment value is certainly higher.

There's a poll out there about Bond spin-offs and what not. I've come to the conclusion that a Beam centered spin-off is the only one tolerable. It would be like 'Charlie Wilson's War.' Actually...wait a minute...Beam is Charlie Wilson. It's perfect.

Chief of SIS wrote:

Kennon wrote:

True, Leiter wasn't really a necessary character and had little enough to do. Beam's entertainment value is certainly higher.

There's a poll out there about Bond spin-offs and what not. I've come to the conclusion that a Beam centered spin-off is the only one tolerable. It would be like 'Charlie Wilson's War.' Actually...wait a minute...Beam is Charlie Wilson. It's perfect.

But Charlie Wilson's war was a flop at the box office. EON would need a better looking actor and role to anchor a series of spin-off films than whatever the name of the actor was that played Beam.

Bringing back Beam as a full blown Quantum dupe has real potential.
Post the Bolivian fiasco, Beam is not doubt in a sour mood and might no longer be anamoured with his CIA employers.
He's be prime recruitment fodder for his old pals at Quantum.
And he is a far more animated character than the rather dour Felix.
Just my two cents but I think Wright/Leiter might have served his purpose. I'd be ok with the possibilities for a new Leiter down the road. Changing up the actor was always something I enjoyed anyway.
The true Leiter lives in the Fleming novels. Movie-Leiter serves quite well as engaging foil for 007, when needed.

tiffanywint wrote:

The true Leiter lives in the Fleming novels. Movie-Leiter serves quite well as engaging foil for 007, when needed.

There's still a little lobby of us who would love to see Leiter be as "true" in the movies as, I agree, he was in the novels. Wright's not hardly the straw-mopped Texan of the '50s, but he's been the most engaging guy I've seen since Lord and Hedison. I think they could make him compelling without the need to kill him off (ahem, Rene?), but that's up to them, I guess. Seems like they planted the seed for Leiter to be left out when they limited him to being the head of the South America station.