Neanderthals assault Australian PM, Opp. Leader

Erica Ambler wrote:

Sanctimonious shit.

Indeed, I aim to please.

Vesper wrote:

You're right. Mistakes of that magnitude cannot be undone. But the onus is on both sides of the problem to recognise that. The mainstream Aboriginal community/stakeholders/leaders seem to have addressed that. It's taken a while but I believe mainstream political parties have too. The mob of idiots who were banging on the glass at The Lobby on Thursday and burning the Australian flag on Friday have not (they are now talking of mounting a lawsuit in England to do what they already did in Mabo).

What's done is done. Ensuring the mistakes of the past are not repeated by recognising them, doing all neccessary to ensure that every Aboriginal child has all the opportunities as any other Australian child, and ensuring the culture is preserved to the greatest extent possible - even if it is doomed to history - is all that can be done. And that's a two-way street.

That.

Erica Ambler wrote:

History is generally the tale of the more technologically advanced civilisations displacing the more primitive. Such actions are rarely about right or wrong or, indeed, race or skin colour. However, I suspect they may be inevitable, regardless of intent or wishful thinking.

And that.

With the important addition that whenever a 'technologically advanced civilisation' has had it too easy for too long a time, well, then it simply disappears. That's a charmingly dense view for us to refer to all those 'primitive' cultures time simply washed off the map in favour of our own. After all it's exactly the fate waiting for us. In a metaphorical sense of course. Couldn't really happen to a culture creating such great civilisatory highlights as CALL OF DUTY and TWILIGHT, can it? Certainly never!

And yet I find this a fitting and quite comforting thought.

You have to put primitive in quotes, eh? What a deluded simpleton you really are.

I've missed you, Khan. :)

6of1 wrote:

With the important addition that whenever a 'technologically advanced civilisation' has had it too easy for too long a time, well, then it simply disappears. That's a charmingly dense view for us to refer to all those 'primitive' cultures time simply washed off the map in favour of our own. After all it's exactly the fate waiting for us. In a metaphorical sense of course. Couldn't really happen to a culture creating such great civilisatory highlights as CALL OF DUTY and TWILIGHT, can it? Certainly never!

And yet I find this a fitting and quite comforting thought.

"Time" didn't wash these other cultures off the map; dominant cultures wiped those primitives off the map. It's an evolutionary FACT: weaker species are dominated and eventually pushed aside or made extinct by stronger, more intelligent races/cultures/species.

The Aboriginals had their chance. They had Australia for 50 - 70,000 years all by themselves. Then the white man came and the Aboriginals could not adapt to the white man's ways, so they got left behind. Same thing happened in the United States with the Native Americans (though, I must confess, the Native Americans/Indians were far more attractive and intelligent than the Aboriginals were/are).

It's uncomfortable, but it's true. It's not like the rest of us want bad things to happens to some of these cultures, but it's evolution, right? And humans are just another form of animal, so what's happening to some of these weaker races is simply nature taking its course. Right?

Look these people go around wearing thong underwear all day, living off bark and berries in the woods, and marveling at the magic of the white man that causes them to build machines that fly. I think it's a safe bet to call them primitive; I don't think they would consider it an insult.

You were right on the money until the second clause of your concluding sentence, Gravy. The Abos may not have the intellectual puissance of Ashkenazi Jews or East Asians, but they're savvy enough to suss out the PC peddled by the likes of 6of1. And a major component of this bizarre ideology lies in certain non-white groups playing upon neurotic white guilt. The Abos would be "offended" alright, if only to wring more spoils from the identity-politics victimologists who rule the Western world.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

You were right on the money until the second clause of your concluding sentence, Gravy. The Abos may not have the intellectual puissance of Ashkenazi Jews or East Asians, but they're savvy enough to suss out the PC peddled by the likes of 6of1. And a major component of this bizarre ideology lies in certain non-white groups playing upon neurotic white guilt. The Abos would be "offended" alright, if only to wring more spoils from the identity-politics victimologists who rule the Western world.

The Aboriginals, sorry to say, are some of the butt-ugliest people I have ever seen. Any other race or culture on this planet I could find you someone beautiful....but not the Aborigines. I don't recall seeing one beautiful woman or one handsome man from among them. But moving on....

I don't really believe in evolution at all, but I do like trying to use that argument against the PC-driven, leftist drivel that people keep trying to shove down our throats: namely that we're all the same. We're not. There's no sameness among identical twins...there's no "equality" between men and women...there's no equality even among men. We're all different. We're all unique. And that principle applies to both individuals and races.

I think you're underselling them a bit. As it stands there is a generation of articulate, pragmatic Aboriginal leaders in mainstream Australian society. Probably more than there have been historically. At the end of the day Neville Bonner got it right: why waste time on symbollic gestures when the amount of effort and resources that can go into something that does nothing can go into making actual improvements to Aboriginal welfare.

I don't have a problem with some positive discrimination towards Indiginous Australians because frankly, they need it. There is a massive gap there that needs to be bridged in some form or another. While I don't entirely agree with Gravy's phrasing, he's not too far off the mark: The Aboriginals migrated so early that they were cut off from the Hittites, the Greeks, the Egyptians and the Persians when they were developing the fundamental tenants and technology that underly much of modern civilisation. For whatever reason (probably because of the large land mass and relatively light population dispersion) these ideas did not develop independently.

And I don't think it's in human nature to just let them live independantly in their own way.

What I have no tolereance for (and I get the sense the Australian public at large is getting extremely tired of) is pointless symbolism and exercises in revisionism that the extremists at the Tent Embassy and the recent commission of would-be-Constitutional Reformers advocate. At the end of the day, if it wasn't the British it would've been the Dutch or the French, and the results would probably have been worse for them.

And to those who don't know what I'm referring to, this is Neville Bonner's speech in opposition to an Australian Republic when the idea was floated back in 98:

I don't think so-called "positive" discrimination will do the Abos any good, Vesper. But it certainly has the potential to greatly harm the fabric of Australian society.

PS--Gravy, the Abos may not be the comeliest people on the planet, but I'd say they're no less lovely than the Fins, Portuguese and Hungarians.

Why was there such a small security detail?

When Obama comes to New York, streets are closed off and he's got an entire NYPD escort.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Hungarians.

Not sure about that. Some of the best porn actresses come from that region - Hungary, Czech Republic, Bohemia, Slovenia etc. Something in the water.

Mr. Brown wrote:

Why was there such a small security detail?

When Obama comes to New York, streets are closed off and he's got an entire NYPD escort.

I suspect it's the fact no Australian prime minister has ever been assassinated. Plus your president is not merely the head of the government, he's also commander-in-chief of the armed forces and custodian of a nuclear arsenel.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

I don't think so-called "positive" discrimination will do the Abos any good, Vesper. But it certainly has the potential to greatly harm the fabric of Australian society.

PS--Gravy, the Abos may not be the comeliest people on the planet, but I'd say they're no less lovely than the Fins, Portuguese and Hungarians.

The Fins? You mean Finnish people? From Finland?

Gotta disagree with you about the Portuguese and Hungarians...I've seen beautiful people from all of those cultures. I can't find, and have never been able to, one picture of a decent looking Aboriginal. But to each their own I suppose.

This is even stranger than the two vaginas thread.

Vesper wrote:

The only people who bear responsiblity for this riot are primarily the rioters themselves, and secondarily Hodges and Sattler. If you want to really push it to its limits, the ten major news journalists who took Abbott's quote and reworded it to make it stronger than it was could be blamed, but that's really stretching it. There is a big difference between saying the tent embassy should be 'torn down' and saying protests of that type had had their day. You're a writer, you should realise that more than anyone.

I'm not denying the rioters did anything wrong here. I just don't think the riot would have happened regardless of what was said or who said it. If Abbott had saved his comments for a more appropriate venue, the shit wouldn't have hit the fan.

Vesper wrote:

I'm not his biggest fan by any means, but when a member of the PM's staff and a union seceretary are linked to inciting a riot that was judged as a pretty serious security risk, and judging by the actions of her security team, one of the most serious for a prime minister in recent history, I don't think calling for some kind of inquiry is that out of line.

I think that's an entirely reasonable stance. But looking at all of Abbott's "policies" and actions in the past, I don't think he's doing it because he feels a review is in order. I think he's doing it because he's trying to shift the blame, and make this out to be the government's failure rather than his own dickheadedness.

Vesper wrote:

The official story doesn't exactly add up.

Then what are you suggesting? That members of the labor party conspired to leak details of Abbott's location to the rioters in a way that could not be directly traced back to them?

CJB wrote:

I suspect it's the fact no Australian prime minister has ever been assassinated.

And us being Australian probably has something to do with it. It's not like we're a major global player.

Santa wrote:

This is even stranger than the two vaginas thread.

Perhaps. But can you honestly say that you would get these sort of stimulating, interesting, provocative discussions over at CB-Has Been?

Congratulations for working the word "strange" into a sentence about two vaginas, though. Good call!

Sharky wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Hungarians.

Not sure about that. Some of the best porn actresses come from that region - Hungary, Czech Republic, Bohemia, Slovenia etc. Something in the water.

Agreed. Just have a look at 21st Sextury.com and Club Sandy...

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

Sharky wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Hungarians.

Not sure about that. Some of the best porn actresses come from that region - Hungary, Czech Republic, Bohemia, Slovenia etc. Something in the water.

Agreed. Just have a look at 21st Sextury.com and Club Sandy...

Hungary Hungarian Harriot Harlots. I've got to write that down.

Sharky wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Hungarians.

Not sure about that. Some of the best porn actresses come from that region - Hungary, Czech Republic, Bohemia, Slovenia etc. Something in the water.

The Hungarians are an entirely distinct ethnicity from the Czechs and Slovenians. In fact, The Fins and Hungarians are closely related despite being separated by a couple thousand miles.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Sharky wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Hungarians.

Not sure about that. Some of the best porn actresses come from that region - Hungary, Czech Republic, Bohemia, Slovenia etc. Something in the water.

The Hungarians are an entirely distinct ethnicity from the Czechs and Slovenians. In fact, The Fins and Hungarians are closely related despite being separated by a couple thousand miles.

And link for this?

Quote :

I'm not denying the rioters did anything wrong here. I just don't think the riot would have happened regardless of what was said or who said it. If Abbott had saved his comments for a more appropriate venue, the shit wouldn't have hit the fan.

A more appropriate venue like... a press conference where a journalist directly asks him what he thinks about the 40th anniversary of the Tent Embassy?

Quote :

I don't think so-called "positive" discrimination will do the Abos any good, Vesper. But it certainly has the potential to greatly harm the fabric of Australian society.

I think we may not be on the same page when it comes to the meaning of that term. I refer not to the typical affirmative action, race ratios and other such things. I refer to positive but discriminative policy aimed to reduce education and health defecits in the Aboriginal community. As it stands the proportion of Indiginous Australians graduating high school and the average life expectancy of Indiginous Australians are shockingly low when compared to the Non-Indiginous population. And I don't mean to say they should lower the benchmarks in schools either, but work on an effective (though perhaps costly) scheme that aims to reduce truancy and improve standards of teaching, and literacy and numeracy levels - in addition to subsidized health services to ensure they get the health checks and guidance that they need - these are just other things that money could be being spent on if the current gov't hadn't blown through the reserves of the Howard gov't and thrown the budget into defecit.

Quote :

Then what are you suggesting? That members of the labor party conspired to leak details of Abbott's location to the rioters in a way that could not be directly traced back to them?

That's exactly what happened. Through either sheer idiocy or unrestrained enthusiasm a member of the PM's staff and a union secretary conspired to stage a publicity stunt designed to embarass Abbott politically. They only had to worry about it being traced to them once it backfired so horrendously. Even Gillard's version of the facts matches that.

Vesper wrote:

That's exactly what happened. Through either sheer idiocy or unrestrained enthusiasm a member of the PM's staff and a union secretary conspired to stage a publicity stunt designed to embarass Abbott politically. They only had to worry about it being traced to them once it backfired so horrendously.

And how exactly would a bunch of angry protestors showing up when Abbott thought they were gone embarrass him? Embarrassing him would involve somethig like releasing a recording of him saying that he thought the Tent Embassy should be torn down and the earth it stood on salted because it was never relevant to begin with and its existence only humiliated Australia on a daily basis - ten minutes after he had publicly announced that the Tent Embassy would forever stand as an important icon of Australia's cultural revolution (with the recording implying/stating that he only made those positive comments to keep the aboriginal population in its place). That would be embarrassing. A conspiracy to have protestors find him does nothing because - assuming that the parties involved had not been discovered to have leaked his location - the whole thing could potentially be written off as a chance encounter or a a sympathiser spotting Abbott and calling a group of protestors to tell them that they saw him. It would only be embarrassing to him if one of his own staff members tipped the rioters off.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Vesper wrote:

That's exactly what happened. Through either sheer idiocy or unrestrained enthusiasm a member of the PM's staff and a union secretary conspired to stage a publicity stunt designed to embarass Abbott politically. They only had to worry about it being traced to them once it backfired so horrendously.

And how exactly would a bunch of angry protestors showing up when Abbott thought they were gone embarrass him? Embarrassing him would involve somethig like releasing a recording of him saying that he thought the Tent Embassy should be torn down and the earth it stood on salted because it was never relevant to begin with and its existence only humiliated Australia on a daily basis - ten minutes after he had publicly announced that the Tent Embassy would forever stand as an important icon of Australia's cultural revolution (with the recording implying/stating that he only made those positive comments to keep the aboriginal population in its place). That would be embarrassing. A conspiracy to have protestors find him does nothing because - assuming that the parties involved had not been discovered to have leaked his location - the whole thing could potentially be written off as a chance encounter or a a sympathiser spotting Abbott and calling a group of protestors to tell them that they saw him. It would only be embarrassing to him if one of his own staff members tipped the rioters off.

Take issue with them. Not me. You are arguing with fact. Hodges called Sattler because he wanted some Aboriginals of some seniority to confront Abbott at The Lobby in response to his comments earlier in the day. I agree it wouldn't be that exciting if three Aboriginal elders had shown up and confronted Abbott about it, but it still would've made the 6pm news on what is a slow day. I'd like to think Hodges' intentions were that benign and the whole thing just backfired. A headline like 'Abbott criticized by Aboriginal Leaders' wouldn't be that damaging long term for him, I think, but it would've 'won them the day' which is about the only way they seem to think about the media cycle these days.

I'd like to congratulate everyone for not mentioning Batman.

Vesper wrote:

Hodges called Sattler because he wanted some Aboriginals of some seniority to confront Abbott at The Lobby

Did he actually say that? And if so, did he say that he did it to embarass Abbott politically?

Even if both are true, it still doesn't exonerate Abbott. Hodges couldn't have leaked details of Abbott's location if Abbott hadn't said anything in the first place.

6of1 wrote:

Couldn't really happen to a culture creating such great civilisatory highlights as CALL OF DUTY and TWILIGHT, can it? Certainly never!

At least our cultures were even capable of creating the vehicles that give us CALL OF DUTY and TWILIGHT. If the world had to wait around for the Aboriginal people or the African continent to create television, film recorders, or an X-Box we'd all still be waiting. What great contribution to the advancements in human understanding and knowledge have the Aboriginal or Sub-Saharan African cultures made? What do the Aboriginal kids play with? Pieces of sticks tied together with vine?

Which cultures created the locomotive? The steam engine? Discovered how to fly a machine that was heavier than air? Split the atom? Created the production line? The Internet? The telephone? The computer? Cell phones? Rocket science? Weather satellites? Pasteurization? Vaccinations? Electricity?

Have the Aboriginals or African people searched the deepest ocean's floor or sent messages into outer space or touched the surface of the moon? Did they invent eyeglasses or a pacemaker or discover how to successfully transplant a heart in a living person?

Every single thing that went into your ability to post your cynical, deluded, politically-correct comment was invented by someone in either the U.S., Japan, or Western Europe. If it weren't for the leading thinkers and innovators of those countries, you would be forced to post your comments in chalk-writing on some Aboriginal cave way far out in the Outback where no one would be able to read them. Now THAT is a "fitting and quite comforting thought."