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 The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'

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FieldsMan
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PostSubject: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Tue May 22, 2012 10:02 pm

I was looking to start a thread about what will be mentioned below (well really?), but thought I'd better make sure that nothing has been done before, and realised that MP did something for Connery and Moore on the last pages of this forum. So, I decided to initiate a Brosnan one.
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I'm an unashamed Brosnan Bond fan, and I think, with the release of SF's trailer, I've finally realised why. I'm not meaning to degrade Craig's contributions to the franchise. QOS is in my top 10 somewhere, CR is a middling Bond film, but SF looks like it may just as well appear in my top 10. But where's the fun? And that's where Brosnan comes in.

Apparently, his films are "greatest hits" Bond that never brought anything new to the series. Honestly, I think he's a great mix of the different Bond's - but that's another argument. I just have so much fun with Brosnan's Bond. It's the same with the rest of the films. They were all colourful, intriguing features, and moments in Brosnan's Bond films really encapsulates why I love the franchise as much as I do - such as the outrageousness of Xenia Onatopp and Renard, the high tech gadgetry (not the robo suit, but Bond's phone in TND, the watch rappel in TWINE), the plots of GE, TND and TWINE showing how Bond is still relevant today (to an extent, so does DAD, but that was handled badly, admittedly) and still had fun with it (Carver is wonderfully OTT, Elektra is one helluva villainess). But they were fun, comic book thrillers.

I realise that with Craig, the films have lost their sense of vibrancy. They have their moments - the villains aren't as outrageous (though I am a big fan of Greene, and earlier, Kristatos), but will we ever get a Goldfinger again, or a Dr. No? What about a May Day or Blofeld? It looks as though we may have something with Bardem in SF, and there appears to be some very nice images that harken back to the best Bond days, but this grimness seems to characterise SF too. I don't like Craig's dishevelled appearance, but I'm not forming any biases now as I haven't seen the film, but won't we ever get back to something like TND, FYEO, FRWL or TB? PTS --> Briefing ---> Mission without M --> M may appear at end of film.

With Brosnan's era, sure the films are formulaic, but it works for me. There are interesting characters, not nearly as dramatic as Craig's films, and not really pretentious (I'm not calling Craig's films pretentious, but they do veer away tonally from the first 20 films). I like Brosnan's Bond because it demonstrates that escapist Bond can also work in the present.

Anyway, I'd rank his films like so, even though they may shift around after this year's Bondathon:

TND
TWINE
GE

DAD

Use this space to discuss the Brosnan Age.
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Tue May 22, 2012 11:25 pm

I thought Brosnan's Bond was cool when I was a wee lad. Watching the classics and then DAD upon its initial release changed things swiftly.

Now I can't stand his Bond. He's a smarmy schoolboy you want to deck. He's about as intimidating as wet lettuce. He'd be borscht if it wasn't for his invisible cars and machine guns.

The films themselves mostly suck. I admit that GE, TND & TWINE hold a lot of nostalgia value but I can admit they're (the latter two in particular) stock action films which make shyte attempts at "emotional" crap which utterly fail. Same with DAD which holds next to no nostalgia value for me. Frankly the emo pap fails because Broz-Bond spends half his movies playing with gizmos and being Rambo. You can't humanise a cartoon character. Fuck, he spends 14 months being tortured in North Korea and forgets about it three-and-a-half minutes later. The only outcome of his captivity is that his one-liners seemingly become even worse.

And yes, the bane of the Brosnan Era is Purvis, Wade, and any other miscreants who put us through some of the worst writing of the franchise.
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00Beast
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 1:29 am

Oh my goodness, I absolutely adore the Brosnan era!! Three of the best Bond movies come from this era (GE, TND, and TWINE). Brosnan has more style and charm than any other Bond actor to walk the screen. His very presence on the screen makes you realize just how cool James Bond really is. GoldenEye and Tomorrow Never Dies are both in my top 5, with The World is not Enough resting just outside the top 10 around #11 I think. GE is my favorite Bond movie of all time, simply because it has everything. It's got the villains, the action, the pace, the soundtrack, the Bond girl, and much more! TND has all of the same as GE, and both are incredibly thrilling to watch! TWINE has so many great factors as well, and despite many people's opinions of it, I think it's outstanding. I can't stand all the Brosnan bashing I've read on other forums, it really irritates me. I don't see any issues with his era. His movies are thrill rides all the way, with the classic Bond elements you would expect, new elements you might not see coming, terrific storylines, incredibly evil villains, exotic, Bondian locations, and the list goes on.
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Stamper
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 1:46 am

Renard was ridiculously inoffensive, a vilain you laugh at just looking at his sad face, who could ever believe Sophie Marceau giving the time to this guy? The scene with the burning rock make him look so Z, DTV vilain, I switch off every time. WINE is a crap film, end of story. Onatopp was over the top, these are for instances the two worst elements in each of the film they appear in.

Brozza could have been a great Bond, he had all the real life elements of the character (lost wife etc.) but he got saddled with ridiculous vilains, bad scripts and puns, bad clothes, (my god, the collar of his shirt at the beginning of GE in his Aston, etc. His films are made to please both the Moore fans with all the silliness, and the Connery fans with a few moments of violence. But really, they are half assed compromises. If they had gone the CR way with him, Bond would have become a trend setter again, rather following fashion.

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lachesis
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 3:13 am

I enjoyed the Brosnan era but it does suffer for being one of the most inconsistent...and by that I don't really mean in terms of quality but in terms of tone and style. The lack of an achor to the character and the precession of Directors really makes getting a handle on what he brings to the role is quite tough. I think the problem and inspiration behind this 'mix of previous incarnations' is that he uses them as his inspiration each time going back to square one rather than build on what he himself brought to the mix. But its all relative and subjective I guess

Anyways the era racks up these scores from me

Goldeneye (7/10)
The World is Not Enough (6/10)
Die Another Day (5/10)
Tomorrow Never Dies (5/10)

Overall Average 6/10 which is a decent score on my sheet.

Edit If he'd been given Casino Royale, a more mature Bond in that position, more likely to hang up his gun and with less distracting OTT physical action....hmmm yes its possible I'd have enjoyed that film more than with Craig simply for the changes forced upon it.


Last edited by lachesis on Wed May 23, 2012 3:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 3:16 am

GE

DAD


TND

TWINE


That's all I have to say now. Fuck that era.
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00Beast
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 3:38 am

My Brosnan Bonds simply rank in order they were made, quite frankly.

1. GoldenEye- #1 on my rankings
2. Tomorrow Never Dies- #4 on my rankings
3. The World is not Enough- #11 on my rankings
4. Die Another Day- #18 on my rankings
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Stamper
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 4:29 am

GE
TND
DAD
WINE
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 4:49 am

Nice to see Pierce get a little love here. Just because Craig brings a lot to the role, is that any reason for so many to turns their backs on Pierce and claim that they never liked him or his films?

Hypocrisy, 'at's what that is.

Having said that, I'll make myself unpopular here anyway by putting DAD first. It has all the elements that I like in a Bond film (being a child of the seventies and liking the OTT elements of DAF, LALD, TMWTGG & TSWLM). After that comes TND, then GE and TWINE last.

Not that I even dislike TWINE, but something has to come last, I suppose.
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Hilly KCMG
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 7:42 am

Sometimes I miss Brosnan. Sometimes.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 8:34 am

Brosnan's flicks have the unique quality of the movies getting worse while the Bond actor was solidifying himself in the role.

Goldeneye remains Brosnan's best film, but his worse performance. TND takes a minor dip, although I admire taking the course of action of being balls to the wall action without the "deep" frivolities of the latter two films. TWINE drags on and DAD has dual personalities that come out at the worst possible time.

As far as if Craig is an improvement, it's hard to judge a Bond actor after two films. Of all the actors that went more than two films, Moore's improved, Brosnan's degraded, and Connery's went all over the place.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 8:36 am

Tubes wrote:
Goldeneye remains Brosnan's best film, but his worse performance.

Don't agree with that. There's a youthful energy and steeliness to his performance that sets it apart from the others, IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 9:36 am

AMC Hornet wrote:
Nice to see Pierce get a little love here. Just because Craig brings a lot to the role, is that any reason for so many to turns their backs on Pierce and claim that they never liked him or his films?

Hypocrisy, 'at's what that is.

Exactly how is that hypocrisy? If, in your words, so many turn their backs on him...perhaps there's a genuine grouse? Just a thought. :scratch:

Tomorrow Never Dies, The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day are not among the first dozen 007 movies I'd ever reach for. I have difficulty maintaining respect for his Bond or putting him on a pedestal when his films got progressively worse to the point that I was giving up on Bond. Or at least the direction Brozzayawn's the Honourable Pierce Brosnan's films were going.

Due to increased annoyance and frustration with his cartoonish films, I began to dismiss the 90s Bond, his worship, Pierce Brosnan, mother of the 007 universe, as a smarmy, two-dimensional coiffed up mannequin model than a rugged spy.



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The White Tuxedo
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 9:57 am

I don't want to waltz in and pee on Fieldsman's parade. Y'all know I'm not a fan of the Brozzer. Now let's see... ranking.

As an actor, I like him in other things. And as Bond, I like him best in DAD. I think Ebert said he was no longer a tenant, but the landlord in the role.

Ranking based on which I'd want to watch?

1. DAD - I actually enjoy much of it.
2. GE - It's women haven't been equaled since, though I dig Eva Green. But compared to the women in the other Brosnan films? Ahahahahahahaha. It's like comparing Ruth's Chris steakhouse to cold Taco Bell.
3. TND - Fieldsman's fave. Hey, I'm the guy who enjoys QOS, so I can't throw too many stones on this. It's a dumbass American action movie to me, but the action is mostly well orchestrated.
4. TWINE - Phu Yuck.
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lachesis
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 10:09 am

AMC Hornet wrote:
...... Just because Craig brings a lot to the role......,

You must give me the name of your occulist.

The biggest real change in Bond across this pair is the approach to the role from the producers, the manner with which they have chosen to present him.Strip that away and its very difficult to decide what the actor themselves is allowed to bring, Brosnan was presumably and primarily required to bring his charm, but in fairness to him there was zero apparent effort to present him in a consistent manner. Craig meanwhile has been tasked to bring his physicality and at least had a consistent structure to play to that attribute, hopefully Skyfall will play to a broader and more rounded Bond so some real comparison is possible. But within the confines of what they were employed to do and the scripts they were either gifted or lumbered with its currently difficult to see any substance to an accusation or criticism of what they brought other than the usual subjective fan preference.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 2:06 pm

I can't wait to see these forums in 10 years time:

"Cavill/Fassbender/Whoever is so much better than Craig ever was! He's so charming and witty and debonair! He's the best Bond after Connery and Brosnan!"

You think not? We'll see.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 2:18 pm

My rankings of the Brosnan era is as follows:

001) 1st 2/3 of DAD
002) 1st 1/2 of TND
003) 1st 1/4 of GE
004) 2nd 1/2 of TND
005) Final 3/4 of GE
006) Final 1/3 of DAD
007) All of TWINE
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 2:25 pm

Nice.

For me...

001) 1st 1/4 of GE
002) 1st 2/3 of DAD

Well, that's all I really like.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 8:13 pm

The White Tuxedo wrote:
I don't want to waltz in and pee on Fieldsman's parade

It's alright. I know Brosnan's not everyone's cup of tea, but I brought this topic up to see whether others thought that his era was the last time the films have been genuinely fun...

It was good today though - my Literature teacher said he liked Brosnan's Bond films except DAD. Which is fair enough, in my view. :)


Last edited by FieldsMan on Sat May 26, 2012 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 8:52 pm

GE was great. That's all I can say about this era.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Wed May 23, 2012 10:01 pm

AMC Hornet wrote:
I can't wait to see these forums in 10 years time:

"Cavill/Fassbender/Whoever is so much better than Craig ever was! He's so charming and witty and debonair! He's the best Bond after Connery and Brosnan!"

You think not? We'll see.

imo This is a certainty the element most folks ignore is that the current Bond is the one playing to the assessed sensibilities of the current demographic, inevitably new fans learning of the franchise are having their expectations met by 'their new guy' all the while time incrementally removes the older fans from the equation to see the newer generation hold sway etc.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Thu May 24, 2012 7:25 am

AMC Hornet wrote:
I can't wait to see these forums in 10 years time:

"Cavill/Fassbender/Whoever is so much better than Craig ever was! He's so charming and witty and debonair! He's the best Bond after Connery and Brosnan!"

You think not? We'll see.

If this forum's still going in ten years I'll kill.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Thu May 24, 2012 11:43 pm

1- Thomas Crown Affair
2- Tailor of Panama

I had no idea Brosnan did other Bond flicks during that time.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Fri May 25, 2012 7:19 am

Stamper wrote:
1- Thomas Crown Affair
2- Tailor of Panama

I had no idea Brosnan did other Bond flicks during that time.

Dante's Peak and some thing with Red Indians.
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PostSubject: Re: The Brosnan Era '1995 - 2002'   Fri May 25, 2012 7:31 am

I love THE MATADOR.
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