[SPOILERS] The Dark Knight Rises (2.0)

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Blunt Instrument wrote:

Saw this again yesterday ... found myself pondering on how its basic plot (megalomaniac threatens a heavily-populated area with nuclear devastation) used to be a Bond staple, but they seem to have found it passe in recent years. Interesting, given that DKR could well be the biggest box-office movie of the year.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree to some point, but I also believe that it would be passe to a Bond film because we've been down that road many times before, whereas none of the Batman films have touched it. They can probably get away with something that the Bond films can't anymore.

But I've said several times before, and it's worth repeating, that I firmly believe that Nolan used TDKR as a business card; I strongly believe it was geared, in part, to the Bond producers in order to attract their attention and to get them to consider him for their next director (or if they want to completely "reboot" the series after Craig does one or two more films). As has been mentioned by others, Nolan "borrows" from other Bond films such as LTK and TWINE. I think there was also a bit of OHMSS in INCEPTION, but I'll leave that for another thread. Nolan has done everything but beg for the director's chair on the next cycle of Bond movies and I say "Give it to him!"

Largo's Shark wrote:

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Saw this again yesterday ... found myself pondering on how its basic plot (megalomaniac threatens a heavily-populated area with nuclear devastation) used to be a Bond staple, but they seem to have found it passe in recent years.

Still is.

You reckon? It's not a feature of DAD, CR or QOS ... mind you, I admittedly don't know exactly what Silva's plan is in Skyfall.

And yeah, Gravy ... Nolan's set out his stall as regards directing a future Bond, no question.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Saw this again yesterday ... found myself pondering on how its basic plot (megalomaniac threatens a heavily-populated area with nuclear devastation) used to be a Bond staple, but they seem to have found it passe in recent years.

Still is.

You reckon?

I mean the plot device is still passe. It's leftover scraps, like most of what Nolan does with Bond tropes.

Bring back AUSTIN POWERS.

Ah, right. My mistake :*h*: .

There were rumours of a fourth Austin Powers, but it's all gone quiet.

http://www.cracked.com/article_20012_if-dark-knight-rises-was-10-times-shorter-more-honest.html

Louis Armstrong wrote:

http://www.cracked.com/article_20012_if-dark-knight-rises-was-10-times-shorter-more-honest.html

I didn't know what "goatse" was, so I did a Google image search. Now I have PTSD.

Just be glad you didn't see it when you were 10.

After 5 weeks in release:

OPENING DAY:
The Dark Knight Rises: $75,754,897
The Dark Knight: $74,087,400
Batman Forever: $36,498,400
Batman Returns: $30,671,000
Batman and Robin: $27,806,900
Batman (1989): $26,257,000
Batman Begins: $18,618,000

OPENING WEEKEND:
The Dark Knight: $174,738,000
The Dark Knight Rises: $160,887,295
Batman Forever: $96,104,100
Batman Returns: $87,192,000
Batman: $80,775,500
Batman and Robin: $73,976,300
Batman Begins: $60,228,400

DOMESTIC:
The Dark Knight: $588,314,100
Batman: $498,600,600
The Dark Knight Rises: $415,042,000
Batman Forever: $335,063,500
Batman Returns: $310,753,500
Batman Begins: $253,716,500
Batman and Robin: $185,188,600

RISES is behind TDK by a lot. At the pace it's currently going, RISES will probably settle around $450 million domestic. Certainly a lot, but while international numbers are picking up the slack, RISES cannot be considered a rousing success. Against massive expectations, RISES shrunk much like how RETURNS shrunk in 1992.

Considering how much better INCEPTION did with box office than most expected, this might be considered even more of a financial disappointment.

Tubes wrote:

RISES is behind TDK by a lot. At the pace it's currently going, RISES will probably settle around $450 million domestic. Certainly a lot, but while international numbers are picking up the slack, RISES cannot be considered a rousing success. Against massive expectations, RISES shrunk much like how RETURNS shrunk in 1992.

Yeah, no, not really.

THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is already at $903 million dollars. THE DARK KNIGHT topped out at 1.003 billion. I don't know how much more TDKR has left in the tank, but it wouldn't be a stretch to think it could beat TDK's total box office. We're talking a difference $98 million dollars at this point. Adjusting for inflation slightly, TDKR has still made close to 90% of what TDK made.

While I love Batman Returns (and it's my favorite of the first four films), it made 2/3rds of what the first film did. TDKR has more than doubled what BATMAN BEGINS made. It's hard to draw a reasonable conclusion that TDKR has been a box office disappointment. The home video format may be even more lucrative for the film than it was for TDK, as some polls show up to 20% of movie audiences planned to stay away from theaters and TDKR because of the shooting in Aurora, CO.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Tubes wrote:

RISES is behind TDK by a lot. At the pace it's currently going, RISES will probably settle around $450 million domestic. Certainly a lot, but while international numbers are picking up the slack, RISES cannot be considered a rousing success. Against massive expectations, RISES shrunk much like how RETURNS shrunk in 1992.

Yeah, no, not really.

THE DARK KNIGHT RISES is already at $903 million dollars. THE DARK KNIGHT topped out at 1.003 billion. I don't know how much more TDKR has left in the tank, but it wouldn't be a stretch to think it could beat TDK's total box office. We're talking a difference $98 million dollars at this point. Adjusting for inflation slightly, TDKR has still made close to 90% of what TDK made.

While I love Batman Returns (and it's my favorite of the first four films), it made 2/3rds of what the first film did. TDKR has more than doubled what BATMAN BEGINS made. It's hard to draw a reasonable conclusion that TDKR has been a box office disappointment. The home video format may be even more lucrative for the film than it was for TDK, as some polls show up to 20% of movie audiences planned to stay away from theaters and TDKR because of the shooting in Aurora, CO.

Yeah. TDKR is going to end up beating TDK in total worldwide box office, though I'm not sure it will be by enough to overcome to difference if you adjust it for inflation.

Perception is largely drawn from how well a movie does in US and Canada theaters, regardless if it's accurate or not. One only needs to look at the Bond series to see that those widely acclaimed to be "hits" made significantly more domestically than overseas. DAF made marginally more money than OHMSS internationally, but the big increase in money in the US lead to the perception of DAF being the bigger hit.

I won't deny that home video sales take a large chunk of the box office pie as well. It's just damn near impossible to measure as far as raw dollar value. Almost nobody tracks Blu Ray sales down to the dollar value publicly and DVD's occupy a smaller piece of the pie than in the past. The only absolute I was able to find on the previous Nolan films is TDK's DVD total of $260 million in the US. The market was different back then, however, as more people opt for streaming and renting instead of ownership.

Is RISES a disappointment? No, not by a long shot. It had the biggest 2D opening of all time in raw dollar figures and managed that while a madman shot up a packed theater RISES was shown in. However, against the staggering success of AVENGERS and the reputation of it's predecessors, RISES stayed stagnant. Nolan promised the epic climax to his Batman saga and delivered a direct sequel to BATMAN BEGINS. The box office merely reflects that.

RISES and RETURNS similarities lie in both following up pop culture milestones that dominated a packed summer a few years before. Studios gave plenty of breathing room around both RETURNS and RISES in anticipation of a dominating film that cut down all in it's path. While both where dominating initially, neither held up to the high standard their predecessors created and ended up fading out before summers end.

It's the same way how people consider RISES a bad movie because their bar for success was set absurdly high after TDK and INCEPTION.

All these dollar things put me to sleep.

Dollars make the world go 'round. That's why we shouldn't be seeing BATTLESHIP 2 anytime soon.

Tubes wrote:

It's the same way how people consider RISES a bad movie because their bar for success was set absurdly high after TDK and INCEPTION.

I pity anyone who sets their bar high because of "Inception."

Jack Wade wrote:

Tubes wrote:

It's the same way how people consider RISES a bad movie because their bar for success was set absurdly high after TDK and INCEPTION.

I pity anyone who sets their bar high because of "Inception."

Bored the everliving crap out of me.

The White Tuxedo wrote:

Jack Wade wrote:

Tubes wrote:

It's the same way how people consider RISES a bad movie because their bar for success was set absurdly high after TDK and INCEPTION.

I pity anyone who sets their bar high because of "Inception."

Bored the everliving crap out of me.

Yup. Same here.

Tubes wrote:

Perception is largely drawn from how well a movie does in US and Canada theaters, regardless if it's accurate or not. One only needs to look at the Bond series to see that those widely acclaimed to be "hits" made significantly more domestically than overseas. DAF made marginally more money than OHMSS internationally, but the big increase in money in the US lead to the perception of DAF being the bigger hit.

I won't deny that home video sales take a large chunk of the box office pie as well. It's just damn near impossible to measure as far as raw dollar value. Almost nobody tracks Blu Ray sales down to the dollar value publicly and DVD's occupy a smaller piece of the pie than in the past. The only absolute I was able to find on the previous Nolan films is TDK's DVD total of $260 million in the US. The market was different back then, however, as more people opt for streaming and renting instead of ownership.

Is RISES a disappointment? No, not by a long shot. It had the biggest 2D opening of all time in raw dollar figures and managed that while a madman shot up a packed theater RISES was shown in. However, against the staggering success of AVENGERS and the reputation of it's predecessors, RISES stayed stagnant. Nolan promised the epic climax to his Batman saga and delivered a direct sequel to BATMAN BEGINS. The box office merely reflects that.

RISES and RETURNS similarities lie in both following up pop culture milestones that dominated a packed summer a few years before. Studios gave plenty of breathing room around both RETURNS and RISES in anticipation of a dominating film that cut down all in it's path. While both where dominating initially, neither held up to the high standard their predecessors created and ended up fading out before summers end.

It's the same way how people consider RISES a bad movie because their bar for success was set absurdly high after TDK and INCEPTION.

I'm not sure a direct comparison with THE AVENGERS is possible. They operate in two entirely different worlds, and you've got a superhero/fantasy mash-up with THE AVENGERS, where Nolan Batman trilogy is rooted slightly more in reality.

Anyway, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES has now gone over the $1 billion mark and surpassed THE DARK KNIGHT in unadjusted dollars (and without the benefit of 3-d premium prices either, like THE AVENGERS had). Even with an inflation adjustment, TDRK will end up surpassing TDK.

I think a more valid argument might be made that TDKR wasn't the hit in the U.S. the studio hoped for *because* of the Aurora, Colorado shooting (other countries, with different gun control laws, probably don't have the same fear of copycat killings as we do here in the U.S., and were thus unaffected by the shooting), but beyond that, it's hard to make a case on any level that TDKR was a failure or a disappointment. It got pretty much unanimous praise from both fans and professional critics alike. It will be very interesting to see where Warner Brothers goes next with the series. They got lucky with Nolan because, at the time, they felt they had nothing to lose. He exceeded expectation. But following up Nolan will be a much tougher job than following up Schumacher, and I don't envy the person assigned to do it.

Let me try to distill my perspective to something less wordy.

RISES is a big hit, but the hype machine caused everyone to expect it to be HUGE. We expected new weekend records, new IMAX records, new opening day record, new records for everything. The expectations vastly outstripped the actual product.

It's not something you can argue from a neutral viewpoint, but all our expectations where colored by hype. Another, probably more appropriate comparison is IRON MAN vs. IRON MAN 2. IRON MAN 2 made more money, yet was pegged as a disappointment because it didn't do as well as everyone expected.

Financially, it is a bit of a disappointment. Some were expecting to to not just pass, but absolutely demolish the numbers "The Dark Knight" did. It didn't and won't do that.

Saw TDKRXYZ at BFI IMAX on my way back. Impressive screen. Can't remember much about the film except Marion Cotillard looked disappointingly matronly.