Meet the new Miss Moneypenny

Speculation or reality?

It's unconfirmed.

But very probable.

Largo's Shark wrote:

trevanian wrote:

The White Tuxedo wrote:

She's attractive, but not exotic, which is what Moneypenny should be, and why she's such a letdown to me visually as a lead Bond girl. She just looks so "regular" to me. Of course, Berenice Marlohe does even less for me. And that Greek woman is horrid. So that's two films in a row with Bodn girls that completely bore me.

Agreed on all points. Berenice seems like a seriously messed up & overly made-up Janine Turner to me, and that's just about the best of the lot.

Can't see it myself. Berenice is a hell of a lot more bangable than Janine bleeding Turner (had to Google her). She's got a decent rack for one.

Janine Turner ALWAYS had boobs, unless she dieted them off in the last decade.

Harmsway wrote:

But very probable.

Yes and I'd go so far as to say all of the below is a lock

Spoiler:

I'll take bets on all of the above and even give long odds.

Harmsway wrote:

But very probable.

I haven't seen any evidence of it. Based on what we can confirm - Mallory's position and a scene that is detailed in the latest Bond On Set book - I'd say it's far more likely that M is fired.

CJB wrote:

So Moneypenny is now a gun-toting black woman?

They just can't help themselves.

God forbid Babs should just stick a nice woman behind a desk and call her Moneypenny. No, the character has to be a "strong, independent and empowered woman" first. Hell, she even shoots Bond.

And she's black. Now all we need is the wheelchair.

Can't help but think back to my "spoof" Bond 23 script which had a black Q/Moneypenny, the dumping of David Arnold and had M all over the place in the thick of the action before being replaced by a male M. All they need to add now is the returns of Blofeld and JW Pepper.

Babs is nothing if not hilariously predictable, I'll give her that.

Lazenby. wrote:

CJB wrote:

So Moneypenny is now a gun-toting black woman?

They just can't help themselves.

God forbid Babs should just stick a nice woman behind a desk and call her Moneypenny. No, the character has to be a "strong, independent and empowered woman" first. Hell, she even shoots Bond.

And she's black. Now all we need is the wheelchair.

Can't help but think back to my "spoof" Bond 23 script which had a black Q/Moneypenny, the dumping of David Arnold and had M all over the place in the thick of the action before being replaced by a male M. All they need to add now is the returns of Blofeld and JW Pepper.

Babs is nothing if not hilariously predictable, I'll give her that.

Spot on. And the thing is, she doubtless considers herself oh so daring and cutting edge. But you know what they say, there's nothing so herd-like as the avant garde.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Harmsway wrote:

But very probable.

I haven't seen any evidence of it. Based on what we can confirm - Mallory's position and a scene that is detailed in the latest Bond On Set book - I'd say it's far more likely that M is fired.

If you seriously think that's how EON is going to have Dench's M exit the franchise, you're completely mad.

She'll die with big dignity and big emotion, at least that's what they'll want us to feel. Then the new M will take over.

Harmsway wrote:

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Harmsway wrote:

But very probable.

I haven't seen any evidence of it. Based on what we can confirm - Mallory's position and a scene that is detailed in the latest Bond On Set book - I'd say it's far more likely that M is fired.

If you seriously think that's how EON is going to have Dench's M exit the franchise, you're completely mad.

:D In total agreement. No way in hell does Barbara Broccoli allow Dench's M to be fired in disgrace. She'll die with a dramatic, tear-jerking, 3-handkerchief scene that is guaranteed to get an Oscar nomination to go along with Adele's. We'll be told that M did what she did to protect Bond and to protect England, thinking it was in their best interests. I hope we'll get to see Craig's Bond gently holding her, stroking her hair, and sweetly and tenderly kissing her goodbye and telling her he forgives her and always loved her as she embraces the light and ascends to that big government administration building in the sky.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Harmsway wrote:

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Harmsway wrote:

But very probable.

I haven't seen any evidence of it. Based on what we can confirm - Mallory's position and a scene that is detailed in the latest Bond On Set book - I'd say it's far more likely that M is fired.

If you seriously think that's how EON is going to have Dench's M exit the franchise, you're completely mad.

:D In total agreement. No way in hell does Barbara Broccoli allow Dench's M to be fired in disgrace. She'll die with a dramatic, tear-jerking, 3-handkerchief scene that is guaranteed to get an Oscar nomination to go along with Adele's. We'll be told that M did what she did to protect Bond and to protect England, thinking it was in their best interests. I hope we'll get to see Craig's Bond gently holding her, stroking her hair, and sweetly and tenderly kissing her goodbye and telling her he forgives her and always loved her as she embraces the light and ascends to that big government administration building in the sky.

Would have been way more dramatic if we weren't told this five months ago.

Lazenby. wrote:

She'll die with big dignity and big emotion, at least that's what they'll want us to feel. Then the new M will take over.

This is John Logan doing the writing, so I'm pretty sure it will be STAR TREK NEMESIS all over again, with Craig faltering or looking the wrong way and M. being the one doing a brief heroic action thing.

I've never been a fan of Gardner's Bond books, but I remember one, it might have been LICENCE RENEWED, where there is a copter hovering around his Saab and he drives right at it, thinking if he hits the thing it is just too damned bad (either that or I'm channeling Fleming's MOONRAKER into Gardner, if so apologies.)

With SKYFALL we've got a DB 5 and a helicopter and big pyrotechnics, so that's one way it could go.

Then again, Logan also stole the end of EXCALIBUR for NEMESIS, with a totally contrived odd piece of wall metal coming conveniently loose (but staying hinged to the bulkhead?) to impale the villain so he could further ventilate himself by moving toward the hilt. Do we dare to think Dame Judi will wind up going round and round on the end of a chopper blade?

Perilagu Khan wrote:

But you know what they say, there's nothing so herd-like as the avant garde.

Bollocks.

There's nothing herd-like about me.

Harmsway wrote:

If you seriously think that's how EON is going to have Dench's M exit the franchise, you're completely mad.

It's precisely because they wouldn't consider it that they should do it. People don't always get the endings they deserve, so having M removed from her position after the government loses faith in her would be a much more memorable way of sending her off. I think the fans would like that because it would at least give Dench something meaningful to do. And given that Silva seems to want to ruin her career, it's certainly something that would naturally fit the story.

If I absolutely had to kill M off, then - and this is probably going to be unpopular - I'd take a leaf out of Joss Whedon's book and look to SERENITY. One of the major characters, a fan favourite, dies near the end of the film. There is no warning and no way to save him; the characters don't even get the opportunity to process the fact that he's dead before they have to act. So I'd kill M off quickly and violently enough to shock the other characters, but they're so occupied by an incoming attack that her death doesn't really sink in. It's only later that they realise she is dead, and the consequences of what that means start to sink in.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

If I absolutely had to kill M off, then - and this is probably going to be unpopular - I'd take a leaf out of Joss Whedon's book...

Stopped reading right there.

Yeah, I thought you would. More fool you, then.

Okay, put it this way: kill M off. Do it quickly, do it violently, and do it without warning. No "do it for me" speeches or revelations of stunning secrets; just kill her off in such a way that the other characters don't even have a chance to process the fact that she's dead or what it might mean for the status quo. And from the audience's perspective, plant a seed of doubt and play up to the expectation that she will live. It's only when the immediate threat is over and everyone has a chance to catch their breath that they realise M is dead. And then hit them with another wave of incoming fire just as it sinks in that they have failed to protect her (assuming that is the mission).

Largo's Shark wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

But you know what they say, there's nothing so herd-like as the avant garde.

Bollocks.

There's nothing herd-like about me.

Then you're not a member of the avant garde.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

If I absolutely had to kill M off, then - and this is probably going to be unpopular - I'd take a leaf out of Joss Whedon's book and look to SERENITY.

I don't know much of Whedon's work outside of the FF universe, but I do seriously adore that and have watched SERENITY about 30 times. Having said that ... the incident you refer to was, while very effective, a little too effective ... it pretty much took a certain number of viewers (including me) out of the story completely for the next reel, much like Connery's death in UNTOUCHABLES did for me. Just way too huge of an emotional reaction to pay attention to what followed ... and stopped me from seeing it in the theater the half dozen or more times I'd've figured on going had that NOT been in there. Structurally it works, and on paper it really helps feed into the siege sequence following, which led to my wife (who was also a wreck at that point) asking, 'geezus, is ANYBODY going to live through this movie?' But for me it was just WAY too much.

I've often thought that Whedon may have been inspired on SERENITY in part by UNTOUCHABLES with the 'kill a main guy halfway through, so everybody will relax about the others,' and then SLAM! another one bites the dust.

I gotta say though, I can't imagine there being much emotional engagement over the current incarnation of M. expiring, no matter what the circumstances. Then again, I was more upset about the Enterprise blowing up & burning up than Spock dying (though maybe that had to do with being pissed off at how badly the ship's demise was contrived/written.)

In the whole run of the Bond films, the death that still resonates most with me is Kerim Bey's, even though it takes place off-camera. You can point to Jill in GF as a shocker, and a memorable visual (and aural) moment, but FRWL Connery really puts a lot across in the way he takes it in before taking it out on Tania.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

But you know what they say, there's nothing so herd-like as the avant garde.

Bollocks.

There's nothing herd-like about me.

Then you're not a member of the avant garde.

What is the avant-garde? Plenty of so-called "avant garde" composers were individualists who rejected the dogmas of the Darmstadt school and pursued their own means of expression. Ligeti, Lutoslawski, and Xenakis to name but three.

Ligeti and Lutoslawski are much of a muchness to my ears. Messaian is another. I don't dislike them, but they all huddle together in their miserable and trendy rejection of beauty and euphony.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Ligeti and Lutoslawski are much of a muchness to my ears. Messaian is another. I don't dislike them, but they all huddle together in their miserable and trendy rejection of beauty and euphony.

Boy you guys speak a whole other language. I consider The Rolling Stones, Goats Head Soup album and Warhol faze to be somewhat avant-garde.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Ligeti and Lutoslawski are much of a muchness to my ears. Messaian is another. I don't dislike them, but they all huddle together in their miserable and trendy rejection of beauty and euphony.

Reactionary nonsense. There's plenty of otherworldly beauty and spiritual epiphany to be found in Ligeti, Lutoslawski and (especially) Messaian's oeuvres. One just has to be open to their alien and yes, often dissonant sound worlds. I for one find Messaien's Quatuor pour la fin du temps just as moving as Bach's Mass in B Minor.

The fact that you claim their choice of musical idiom was down to fashion or some kind of mass weltschmerz shows how little you know about those three composers. Ligeti if anything was numbed by his experiences in a concentration camp as a teenager, but miserable or angry? Nah.

Arguably one of the most miserable and neurotic composers in the annals of history was Mahler, and while he pushed romanticism to its limits and paved the way for the Second Viennese School, I wouldn't say his music is of the same character as Messaien's, who was indebted far more to Debussy along with the meters of Ancient Greek poetry, Hindu rhythms (tdlas), Gregorian chant, the Indonesian Gamelan, and of course, bird song.

tiffanywint wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Ligeti and Lutoslawski are much of a muchness to my ears. Messaian is another. I don't dislike them, but they all huddle together in their miserable and trendy rejection of beauty and euphony.

Boy you guys speak a whole other language. I consider The Rolling Stones, Goats Head Soup album and Warhol faze to be somewhat avant-garde.

You like Jerry Goldsmith's PLANET OF THE APES and Leonard Rosenman's FANTASTIC VOYAGE, dontcha Tiff? Those are avant-garde.

Would John Zorn's broad adaptation of Morricone western music count as avant-garde? Parts of it are sublime, while other sections sound like horses being whipped as they listen to and whinny at Corigliano's ALTERED STATES.