Bond 25 (2019)

The Great Wall is a good example of Bejing's 'soft power' being increased in Hollywood ... very Chinese subject matter, but with a Western lead in Matt Damon in an effort to make its appeal broad.

Although its box-office to date would suggest that that hasn't really worked (it's yet to make back double its $150 million budget worldwide).

So if the Chinese buy into MGM, we'd probably get a pro-Chinese Bond story which wouldn't be reflective of current relations between the West and China.

Not that I'm suggesting China is evil, or the new USSR. But I imagine they'd push an agenda through the world's biggest film series.

Naturally my preference is for Bond to remain firmly in Anglo-American hands.

Regardless, I feel like a Bond film where 007 takes on China wouldn't necessarily gel with how the average punter in the West feels about that country. I imagine even those who voted for Trump - a chap who said the word so much you'd think he was a tableware salesman - find China to be a second tier issue next to ISIL.

FieldsMan wrote:

So if the Chinese buy into MGM, we'd probably get a pro-Chinese Bond story which wouldn't be reflective of current relations between the West and China.

Not that I'm suggesting China is evil, or the new USSR. But I imagine they'd push an agenda through the world's biggest film series.

Sort of an inverted Colonel Sun. Sad state of affairs all the same.

It's kind of funny that John Cleese spoke about Asia taking the film industry a few years ago and Bond possibly being affected.

http://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2014/06/bourne-ultimatum-john-cleese-left-bond-movies

Sadly a realistic outcome of the situation is in what Cleese said. Chinese audiences are becoming a primary audience for filmgoing and that means even less humour and more focus on "gritty" action. Another thing I remember reading about some years back is that the Chinese are also not as fond of sexuality on screen which also could affect Bond's already dwindling womanizing.

Interesting... The thing is, I didn't even know MGM were hoping to sell. I know they're after a distributor, but supposedly selling to China came out of nowhere. Of course, I'm not expecting for us all to know the day-to-day, but is it Spyglass selling up?

I think the last thing we need is for the Chinese to buy. No sexuality, 'gritty' action sequences and a lack of humour combined is the antithesis of James Bond.

EDIT: I think Cleese is just as bitter toward Bond as Brosnan was. He doesn't like Craig's version, and prefers Brosnan's interpretation.

FieldsMan wrote:

I think the last thing we need is for the Chinese to buy. No sexuality, 'gritty' action sequences and a lack of humour combined is the antithesis of James Bond.

Sounds like the last decade of Bond anyway.

Cleese raises some interesting issues, though you could say the Bourne-ification of Bond was equally meant to appeal to American audiences as Asian ones. Indeed, you could argue every time the series has swung the pendulum too far in one direction it was done to cater to American tastes of the day (whether the Star Wars phenomenon with Moonraker or Miami Vice/the drug wars with LicenSe R... Re... Revavov... to Kill).

LTK - made to cater to contemporary US tastes of the time, but (as you point out) had to have its original title changed because it turned out that many Yanks didn't know what 'revoked' meant.

Just be glad Dalton wasn't running around in a t-shirt + pastel suit combo.

According to Baz Bamigboye Purvis and Wade have been hired to write Bond 25! And Craig is still undecided, which isn't exactly news.

Bad has been a reliable source, IIRC. I'm glad Purvis and Wade are back. If someone like Feirstein, Logan or another solid writer revises their work, Bond 25 will be fine.

Source: https://twitter.com/BazBam/status/839976961317412865

- Note: Baz's reply to someone's question as to whether Craig will wait on the script before making a decision.

EDIT: This is concerning... Babs supposedly keen on a black Bond.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-4299532/BAZ-BAMIGBOYE-ponders-play-007.html

If Brexit and Trump didn't teach the virtue signalers anything, surely the failure of Fembusters did. Or am I giving them too much credit?

Well maybe I have been unfair in blaming Purvis and Wade in the past but in any event....... I am still very disappointed to have them return.....I guess Craig will not be far behind now and another 'even more personal' mission will follow :(

lachesis wrote:

Well maybe I have been unfair in blaming Purvis and Wade in the past but in any event....... I am still very disappointed to have them return.....I guess Craig will not be far behind now and another 'even more personal' mission will follow :(

On the contrary, if Purvis and Wade are as bad as some think they are, Craig might not like the script and decide to move on. Also, Baz seems to think/know that there are other factors that will contribute to Craig's decision - not just the script. Whether that's age, director, other projects, personal reasons, etc. is anyone's guess. But I don't think it guarantees Craig will soon follow suit and return.

Purvis and Wade are fans of Fleming and surely they recognise that Fleming's works were straight missions. TWINE isn't personal for Bond (it is for M in a similar manner to Fleming's Moonraker). Die Another Day is a little more personal in theory, but in execution Bond is still looking for the mole, and celebrating the fact he is released - something that I enjoy about DAD (Had DAD been for Craig's Bond, I imagine there would be no room for smiling). I imagine CR06's personal rookie agent journey was more of a concoction by Babs and Campbell, later exploited by Haggis, so they were simply following orders. And SF is a return to form, and hugely successful because of it.

Perhaps, given Craig may not return, Purvis and Wade could be tasked with writing a Bond film for any actor to play. Perhaps it won't link to SP, leaving it open for a standalone mission for Craig or Bond Actor #007. Hence, less personal.

FieldsMan wrote:

According to Baz Bamigboye Purvis and Wade have been hired to write Bond 25! And Craig is still undecided, which isn't exactly news.

Bad has been a reliable source, IIRC. I'm glad Purvis and Wade are back. If someone like Feirstein, Logan or another solid writer revises their work, Bond 25 will be fine.

Source: https://twitter.com/BazBam/status/839976961317412865

- Note: Baz's reply to someone's question as to whether Craig will wait on the script before making a decision.

EDIT: This is concerning... Babs supposedly keen on a black Bond.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-4299532/BAZ-BAMIGBOYE-ponders-play-007.html

It's the Daily Mail (a paper which Wikipedia recently said it would no longer be citing as a source in its articles due to its unreliability), and the remark about Babs not caring about the next Bond's ethnicity is allegedly from that hoary old Press cliche 'a source close to ... '.

I wouldn't panic just yet.

But it's by Baz, who correctly reported M's death, Harris as Moneypenny, Waltz as Blofeld, Seydoux's casting, etc.

We'll see.

Bond 25 needs to go back to basics. Normal assignment, Bond not going through too much of another character arc this time, make him more like the vulnerable and bloodied Bond of CR and LTK, and less of a superhero.

More importantly, bring some Fleming scenes back into it, like Cubby did with the 80's Bond films. We all know by now which scenes are still out there from the Fleming novels that are untapped and never been used. Its been discussed to death on here.

The good thing is, P&W are all for resurrecting the Fleming novels. The bad news is, they appear to get overruled by the powers that be. I hope this time it will be different.

Here's hoping the title of Bond 25 will be Shatterhand, with the Bond girl being Viv Michel who Bond rescues at a motel, with scenes and characters appearing from MR, DAF, TSWLM and YOLT. Then Bond 26 can be based on TMWTGG novel, with an opening showing a brainwashed Bond confronting M.

One can live in hope....

Welcome back, JSW!

All very sensible suggestions there.

Interesting thought regarding the incorporation of the Spy novel. Never even imagined that it could be incorporated into cinematic Bond given it was already so out of place in literary Bond. Wonder if  it could be condensed into a, say, 10 minute PTS.

jet set willy wrote:

Bond 25 needs to go back to basics. Normal assignment, Bond not going through too much of another character arc this time, make him more like the vulnerable and bloodied Bond of CR and LTK, and less of a superhero.

More importantly, bring some Fleming scenes back into it, like Cubby did with the 80's Bond films. We all know by now which scenes are still out there from the Fleming novels that are untapped and never been used. Its been discussed to death on here.

The good thing is, P&W are all for resurrecting the Fleming novels. The bad news is, they appear to get overruled by the powers that be. I hope this time it will be different.

Here's hoping the title of Bond 25 will be Shatterhand, with the Bond girl being Viv Michel who Bond rescues at a motel, with scenes and characters appearing from MR, DAF, TSWLM and YOLT. Then Bond 26 can be based on TMWTGG novel, with an opening showing a brainwashed Bond confronting M.

One can live in hope....

Good to see you back, JSW!

I do wholeheartedly agree that Bond 25 should be a normal assignment, but I don't want to see the return of the thug Bond of CR. I maintain that the Bond of that film is more superhero than anything that has come before or after it.

While I want the incorporation of Fleming material, I'd rather see straight (or as faithful as possible) adaptations of MR and YOLT. But there are plenty of scenes and ideas that can be lifted from other novels that have already been adapted. The cruise ship sequence in DAF would be great to see on screen. Fleming's TSWLM isn't available to adapt though, is it?

FieldsMan wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

Bond 25 needs to go back to basics. Normal assignment, Bond not going through too much of another character arc this time, make him more like the vulnerable and bloodied Bond of CR and LTK, and less of a superhero.

More importantly, bring some Fleming scenes back into it, like Cubby did with the 80's Bond films. We all know by now which scenes are still out there from the Fleming novels that are untapped and never been used. Its been discussed to death on here.

The good thing is, P&W are all for resurrecting the Fleming novels. The bad news is, they appear to get overruled by the powers that be. I hope this time it will be different.

Here's hoping the title of Bond 25 will be Shatterhand, with the Bond girl being Viv Michel who Bond rescues at a motel, with scenes and characters appearing from MR, DAF, TSWLM and YOLT. Then Bond 26 can be based on TMWTGG novel, with an opening showing a brainwashed Bond confronting M.

One can live in hope....

Good to see you back, JSW!

I do wholeheartedly agree that Bond 25 should be a normal assignment, but I don't want to see the return of the thug Bond of CR. I maintain that the Bond of that film is more superhero than anything that has come before or after it.

While I want the incorporation of Fleming material, I'd rather see straight (or as faithful as possible) adaptations of MR and YOLT. But there are plenty of scenes and ideas that can be lifted from other novels that have already been adapted. The cruise ship sequence in DAF would be great to see on screen. Fleming's TSWLM isn't available to adapt though, is it?

I'm sure the powers that be could get the rights to that novel if they so desired. Instead, they try to write their own crap, which results in Bond and Blofeld being sibling rivalries as kids.

Up until that disastrous, manufactured "relationship" between Bond and Blofeld, nothing was as calamitous.

I'd rather write their own material and save Fleming's material for someone who could do the job properly as opposed to hacking into it and delivering something as vapid and mindless as CR06. A perfectly good novel abused by a pretentious mentality.

FieldsMan wrote:

Up until that disastrous, manufactured "relationship" between Bond and Blofeld, nothing was as calamitous.

I'd rather write their own material and save Fleming's material for someone who could do the job properly as opposed to hacking into it and delivering something as vapid and mindless as CR06. A perfectly good novel abused by a pretentious mentality.

Agreed. I thought they managed it well in Dalton's 2 films. TLD was perfectly woven into the film, as was the scenes from LALD, and the character Milton Krest in LTK.

Somehow LTK actually managed to feel like it was based on a Fleming novel, sadly the last time EON managed to pull this off successfully. Ever since then these attempts have been half-arsed, misunderstood, and as you say - pretentious.

jet set willy wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

Up until that disastrous, manufactured "relationship" between Bond and Blofeld, nothing was as calamitous.

I'd rather write their own material and save Fleming's material for someone who could do the job properly as opposed to hacking into it and delivering something as vapid and mindless as CR06. A perfectly good novel abused by a pretentious mentality.

Agreed. I thought they managed it well in Dalton's 2 films. TLD was perfectly woven into the film, as was the scenes from LALD, and the character Milton Krest in LTK.

Somehow LTK actually managed to feel like it was based on a Fleming novel, sadly the last time EON managed to pull this off successfully. Ever since then these attempts have been half-arsed, misunderstood, and as you say - pretentious.

I'm assuming you're also not a fan of CR? (Which is completely understandable!)

I love how the 80s films weaved in Fleming's material. FYEO, OP, TLD and LTK efficiently set up some cracking films using Fleming's short stories (and other material). The portion you mention in TLD is a prime example. The Sniper Was a Woman section could be the best sequence from that decade.

Or perhaps Gonzales's death.

Or the changing of the carriages/Bond's race to the circus sequence.

Hmm...

FieldsMan wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

Up until that disastrous, manufactured "relationship" between Bond and Blofeld, nothing was as calamitous.

I'd rather write their own material and save Fleming's material for someone who could do the job properly as opposed to hacking into it and delivering something as vapid and mindless as CR06. A perfectly good novel abused by a pretentious mentality.

Agreed. I thought they managed it well in Dalton's 2 films. TLD was perfectly woven into the film, as was the scenes from LALD, and the character Milton Krest in LTK.

Somehow LTK actually managed to feel like it was based on a Fleming novel, sadly the last time EON managed to pull this off successfully. Ever since then these attempts have been half-arsed, misunderstood, and as you say - pretentious.

I'm assuming you're also not a fan of CR? (Which is completely understandable!)

I love how the 80s films weaved in Fleming's material. FYEO, OP, TLD and LTK efficiently set up some cracking films using Fleming's short stories (and other material). The portion you mention in TLD is a prime example. The Sniper Was a Woman section could be the best sequence from that decade.

Or perhaps Gonzales's death.

Or the changing of the carriages/Bond's race to the circus sequence.

Hmm...

There are parts of CR that I like, mainly the second half of the film when it gets down to basics and actually starts to resemble the novel. I'm not a fan of the Miami airport scene, the Venice sinking scene, or Vesper's death though.

That Miami sequence is woeful.

Going back to what you mentioned earlier... I don't think the critically acclaimed films in the series are all exclusive to Fleming's material - as good as it is. GE, SF and TSWLM are hugely popular with critics and fans alike, and they don't exploit a Fleming novel. Out of those three, GE and SF resonate the atmosphere of a Fleming novel however, and I find that to be much more agreeable than CR06, where a Fleming story is lifted (mostly because it's bogged down by the personal journey).