Rank all the Bond Films!

I know YOLT is not everyone's favorite but it was an early Bond for me and it is so deliriously fun for me. It is kind of a "comfort flick". Not a great 007 I'll admit but it's so much damn fun for me. Most of what makes it is Donald Pleasance, every line he says is pure ham and cheese. It's a favorite out of nostalgia 100%.

I'm not so concerned with YOLT's placing for the very reasons you mention. It's CR's! Much too high!

CR I loved because it was so much more down to earth espionage after the sci fi crapfest that was DAD. Plus, I just ate up the ruthlessness of it although the finger sucking still is WTH?!

Yes, I strongly disagree with all that, except the finger sucking scene, which is as silly as you suggest.

From the detailed ranking thread

I wrote:

24. Casino Royale (2006)

No good. They stripped it back so much that it merely registers a blockbuster. The colour of the James Bond films and novels has been dulled, and the grading cheapens the appeal. Bond is a thug here - the whole rookie 00 angle is as redundant as it is stupid, least with a 38 year old in the role. Further, Bond's a naval officer - there shouldn't be a period in his life after joining the navy where he needs to 'mature'.

It's woefully written. The narrative is poorly structured and the dialogue is clunky. You could rid of the entire first hour and it wouldn't change the film all that much. In fitting with Craig's James Bond, the first hour is simply self indulgent, reckless, and one note. Bring the film forward to M's briefing and Bond meeting Vesper and it's immediately a leaner, more focused film. There's a reason why Fleming started his novel at the casino, and a reason why he didn't write in a superfluous personal journey for Bond to go on as he enters the 00 section. It would have been much more efficient to start the film with Bond earning his 00 status, then moving onto the story proper. Then there is also the rushed love story between Bond and Vesper. The time spent in the first hour of the film should have been used later to develop the central romance as Bond recovers, which would have made the betrayal all the more painful and engaging for the audience. Right now, it's all too contrived, and for a film that wants complete intellectual and emotional investment in it's story, it doesn't warrant it. Hence why I rate the likes of Diamonds Are Forever and Moonraker higher - they ask less of the audience, and deliver on what they promise. And where Bond films can usually fall back on good music, despite the great title song (and titles sequence), this can't. It's by far Arnold's blandest score.

The main issue, which I seem to have brushed over, is that Bond's journey is nonsensical. A "rookie 00 agent" is an oxymoron. How can Bond be as stupid and reckless as he is when he's in the most elite section of MI6? His personal journey, as much as they try to enforce it, doesn't impact his mission, it's just padding. Bond gets from A-to-B in the novel without learning which dinner jacket (or is that dinner jacket?) to wear (just as WTH?? as the finger sucking scene) or whatever other ropes Bond needs to learn in order to achieve his mission. It's just the basic plot points without the rich characterisation provided by Fleming. How interesting it would have been to see Bond consider resigning (as he does in the book) instead of impulsively (petulantly) resolving to kill Le Chiffre after losing at the tables...

And not sure down-to-earth is an accurate description of it, either. I mean, for example, Bond dies, is revived (by someone who probably wouldn't know how to use a defibrillator) goes on to win a card game, drink and drive at high speeds without any consequence. About as stupid as Bond's torture in SP.

Nice to see a little more influx of admiration for CR with these new members who don't think it's bottom five material.

Early days, MP. Early days...

Nice and interesting choices. It's not often you see Goldfinger that low. Nice to see a YOLT champion.


Ah well, I like to let folks get acclimatized first before I let loose with my usual disdain for the modern era.

Ha! That's why I get in first. I lay the seeds, you back me up. Hilly and Strangways&Quarrel add their two cents and slowly we convince. lachesis was one of our disciples too.

Today the forum, tomorrow the world.

On a (slightly) more serious note, always important to remember that because someone's Bondian tastes are different to one's own it doesn't mean they're wrong. Don't like the thought of a Craig-keen newbie signing up, only to vow never to return shortly afterwards because their opinions have been torn to shreds.

All in good fun. What kind of a forum would it be without differing opinions and healthy appetites to debate?

1.On Her Majesty's Secret Service
2.Goldfinger
3.From Russia With Love
4.Dr.No
5.Thunderball
6.You Only Live Twice
7.GoldenEye
8.The World Is Not Enough
9.Diamonds Are Forever
10.Quantum of Solace
11.The Living Daylights
12.The Spy Who Loved Me
13.Casino Royale
14.Tomorrow Never Dies
15.Die Another Day
16.Skyfall
17.For Your Eyes Only
18.A View To A Kill
19.Moonraker
20.Never Say Never Again
21.Octopussy
22.Live and Let Die
23.Spectre
24.The Man With The Golden Gun
25.Licence to Kill

Excellent top 5! Great to see TWINE so high, too. What is it about LTK that makes you put it dead last?

I don't even know where to begin with License To Kill but I will say it's the only Bond film I didn't like or should say outright hated. I can find plenty to enjoy in A View To A Kill, Octopussy and even Never Say Never Again for example but not this one. I'll start with what is probably a rather generic answer but it didn't feel like a Bond film at all. It barely felt like a major film and the production values were dreadful. It reminded me of a cheap TV movie or straight to video film that should have starred Stallone's brother. I couldn't stand any of the cast other than Dalton, the leading lady was embarrassing and the villains a joke.

The shark attack.

The bar room brawl.

Wayne Newton

The Wedding

I had to google his name but "Anthony Zerbe"

The scene were he is asked to turn in his gun by his superiors and they take a shot at him from the tower.

And I I just feel like it completely fails with the violence. I like the idea of making a grittier more violent Bond but the execution here was horrible and it felt like it just dragged on and on. I actually went back and watched it a second time because I thought I must have just been in a bad mood the first time, but no, hated it even more. I don't like one scene in the entire movie and I've never been a harsh critic. The fact it was written and directed by the same guys who did The Living Daylights blows my mind as that was a great movie in all ways. And it really is the only Bond movie I don't like and will probably never watch again.

Fair call. I think the villains in LTK are top notch personally, but I see your point in other areas. I think LTK did a great job in getting a "gritty" Bond story told, as it never compromises Bond as a character (unlike CR/QOS) and I always have a lot of fun with it. Still, overall it isn't exactly what I want in a Bond film, so it's in the bottom half of my ranking.

What is it about TWINE that you like (I know, there's a lot to love in that film!)? Maybe the Favourite Frames thread might be one for you: https://bondandbeyond.forumotion.com/t3607-favourite-frames-the-world-is-not-enough

Heh. LTK ranks No. 3 with me.

Wow, I'd thought that in more recent years LTK had undergone somewhat of a more positive reassessment than the critical and box-office response of the time (similar to the change in attitude towards OHMSS down the years). Clearly not the case with everyone!

I think LTK, much like QOS, will always be in that weird area where people will either loathe it or appreciate it despite its shortcomings. Ten years ago I used to rank both higher, but they've gone a little below the middle these days because I just don't really enjoy them as much. Funnily, one film's flaw is another film's strength. LTK looks cheap but has a pretty solid foundation for a script. QOS looks like a gorgeous piece of production but with a clearly barebones script.

"Funnily, one film's flaw is another film's strength. LTK looks cheap but has a pretty solid foundation for a script. QOS looks like a gorgeous piece of production but with a clearly barebones script."

That's a great point and probably a big reason I don't like LTK but love QOS. I have always been a style over substance person when it comes to movies and have never cared as much about the screenplay. Dario Argento is a good example of that and one of my favorite directors.

I know Dalton and George are in there but after the long stretch of Roger Moore movies the Brosnan ones were just such a nice change of pace. I do like Roger but I feel like they botched most of his movies to some degree or it wasn't exactly what I wanted. I'm not sure why producers feel the need to start spoofing, adding comedy and borderline parody their own creations. I've read many articles on that and it always seems to come down to the idea that 'nobody can take James Bond seriously anymore' so they start hamming it up. I don't get the logic in that and other movie series make the same mistake. If a television show can run 10 years with hundreds of episodes and not jump the shark or run into parody after 7 or so episodes I'm not sure why a movie franchise can't do the same.
If anything they should have went more down to earth and played it more serious when they lost Sean and went to Roger. I could just be superficial too but there are some moments that just kill an entire movie for me. I was loving every second of Live and Let Die up to a certain point. It looked great, the settings were beyond cool, Kananga and his henchmen were some of the best, Solitaire, those funeral processions ..the whole thing was an absolute trip then that Pepper character shows up. Ugh. It's not like I mind some comedy or silliness but that character is so obnoxious and over the top it takes what could have been one of my favs and put's it near the bottom. As soon as that boat chase starts and Pepper shows up I go from loving that movie to hating it. I honesty don't know if I am just too superficial and making mountains out of molehills but it is what it is and then that character shows up again in the next film.
So by the time I got to the Brosnan outings it was just such a relief to be done with that kind of over the top silliness and Pierce is my second favorite Bond. Goldeneye was gold. TND just a slight step down and I absolutely loved The World is Not Enough. The first 10 or 15 minutes of that movie alone is better than most mainstream movies in general. Loved the boat chase, just great action that was incredible to look at and managed to further the plot at the same time. Brosnan gave one of his best performances and seemed so comfortable in the role adding even more depth to Bond with a superior screen play. It felt way more character driven. I thought most of the characters including the villains felt more fleshed out and human. Sophie's acting was fantastic and layered...what I really liked about her and Robert Carlyle is that I found them both convincing as 'bad people' but at the same time felt quite sorry for them both.
I liked how it mirrored OHMSS
Robbie Coltrane....can't look at that guy and not laugh so very nice to see him back and that scene with the helicopter at the caviar factory was quite thrilling as was the ending.
M having a much bigger role.
Q's cute, funny and sad goodbye
and I had no problems with Denise Richards ..she's a stunningly hot, gorgeous Bond girl and a great counter to little miss psycho

Going by that TWINE post I think we'll get on just fine.

Indeed I can completely understand your points on LTK Sarai. And to be honest it comes down to having to shoot the film in Mexico without proper facilities, processing the film in Mexico and Miami instead of London-but most crucially Maibaum being forced out by the writer's strike and MGW having to write the film solo. Combined with a lackluster release and handling by UA and it was undeservedly undercut by these factors. However as a film I think it manages to hold extremely well due to Dalton's conviction and the levels of departure from the norm the series had stuck to until that point. So in a way the low rent vibe adds to the danger element Bond is supposed to be going through as even the glamour has been stripped away.

I get ol' J. W. might be hard for people to take but sometimes you just need a bit of silliness. (And if you ever think it's a cliche-there really are types in real life far worse than Pep ever was.)

If you guys keep defending that film I am going to end up questioning my judgement, thinking I was wrong and end up watching it again. I was really hoping to avoid that. lol

I've done that at least 10 times over the years with Apocalypse Now the last time being about 6 months ago. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it!! It's settled. I will not fall for it again! lol

That's the same for me with CR06. I start to question my judgement, I sit down to watch it, cringe for most of it and don't know why I wasted my time giving it a rewatch.