Anyone actually looking forward to this?

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

trevanian wrote:

Folks saying this could be TWINE 2 aren't considering that TWINE could have been a good entry,

I think SKYFALL could be TWINE 2.0, but that's not a complaint because I think TWINE is Brosnan's best Bond film. If SKYFALL suffers because it is viewed as TWINE 2.0 it won't be because TWINE was a bad film but because SKYFALL is derivative.

I think TWINE suffers from Bond being uncertain about things. Usually Bond is certain about things - right or wrong. He doesn't equivocate. When he thinks Pam has betrayed him in LTK, it isn't a conversation, it is action and damned near murder before he sees how wrong he is. When he sees Kara isn't a pro at a glance, he doesn't discuss his decision with Saunders, he just changes his shot and takes it. TWINE Bond hesitates an awful lot.

Whatever its other faults might be, SKYFALL probably won't have an indecisive Bond. I'd be happy to get a regular Bond instead of the impulsive brat in CR, which I see as the other (even worse) end of the spectrum from Bond in TWINE.)

trevanian wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

trevanian wrote:

Folks saying this could be TWINE 2 aren't considering that TWINE could have been a good entry,

I think SKYFALL could be TWINE 2.0, but that's not a complaint because I think TWINE is Brosnan's best Bond film. If SKYFALL suffers because it is viewed as TWINE 2.0 it won't be because TWINE was a bad film but because SKYFALL is derivative.

I think TWINE suffers from Bond being uncertain about things. Usually Bond is certain about things - right or wrong. He doesn't equivocate. When he thinks Pam has betrayed him in LTK, it isn't a conversation, it is action and damned near murder before he sees how wrong he is. When he sees Kara isn't a pro at a glance, he doesn't discuss his decision with Saunders, he just changes his shot and takes it. TWINE Bond hesitates an awful lot.

Whatever its other faults might be, SKYFALL probably won't have an indecisive Bond. I'd be happy to get a regular Bond instead of the impulsive brat in CR, which I see as the other (even worse) end of the spectrum from Bond in TWINE.)

I get the impression this time round the whole `Bond Begins' storyline arc is over, and Craig will be playing the established character of the Bond we know and love - particularly when the producers claim this is a standalone film with no connection to QoS.

It's obvious that everyone concerned is trying to distance themselves from the now percieved `Bad Apple' of the franchise, like DAD was before it, and are looking to try and correct any wrong-doings made previously.

Erica Ambler wrote:

Whether this is good or not depends on the script. Babs gave John Logan this list of 22 scenes to incorporate.

1. Bond feels ashamed of himself and his attitudes.
2. Bond in Speedos 1.
3. Bond realises women are just as good if not better than men
4. Bond in Speedos 2.
5. Bond fails and is rescued by a woman.
6. Bond in Speedos 3.
7. Bond thinks with his cock and bitterly regrets it.
8. Bond in Speedos 4.
9. M beds a man a quarter of her age.
10. Bond in Speedos 5.
11. Bond doesn't bed a woman, but finds himself sympathetic and strangely attracted to Random Gay No.1
12. Bond and Randon Gay No.1 in Speedos.
13. Bond sees scenes of Imperialism and poverty that make him question his beliefs.
14. Bond in Speedos 6.
15. A strong assertive Musilm woman makes Bond question his beliefs.
16. Bond in Speedos 7.
17. A passing Marxist makes Bond question his beliefs.
18. Bond in Speedos 8.
19. A trigger-happy squad of US marines makes Bond realise that the USA is the Great Satan.
20. Bond in Speedos 9.
21. A cameo by Sean Penn helps Bond realise Britain is crap and would be better off as a republic.
22. Bond in Speedos hangs himself.

In other words Skyfall will be utter shit.

Ha! Spot on!

Harmsway wrote:

Loomis wrote:

I can't wait for SKYFALL.

I love Craig as Bond.

I'm looking forward to Javier Bardem and Ralph Fiennes.

I'm intrigued by the idea of a Bond film set mostly in Britain.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Shanghai and Turkey are used as locations.

It will be refreshing to have a score by someone other than David Arnold.

Sam Mendes is a well-respected director and Roger Deakins is a well-respected cinematographer.

I don't care for QUANTUM OF SOLACE, but SKYFALL is a completely different film.

Yep.

I can roll with that, though I'm more in the more-or-less pro-QOS camp. If I had to rank 'em now it would be settle into a spot below the middle, but well above the Brosnan era. I'm just not quite anti-QOS.

I'm in wait-and-see mode. I'm a little hesitant considering Babs and the general PCness direction the series has taken, but I'm not ready to denouced SKYFALL until I see more- most importantly the film itself.

PCness. Should be Eve's last name. Or P'Cnis.

EDIT ADDON: Yes, I'm looking forward to SKYFALL. It's a new Bond movie, and for that reason alone I'm excited. If I love it or hate it, it's a new Bond film to endlessly dissect. That's a cause for celebration as far as I'm concerned. It gives us all something new to bitch about. Isn't that fun?

Wish I had this much enthusiasm about nuTrek 2: Lost in New York.

I'm looking forward to Skyfall as well...and this is after being disappointed by QoS. I don't have a reason to dislike anything yet.

I'm gradually turning my opinion, ramping up into 'sort of looking forward to it'. Wait until the trailer or whatever comes and go from there.

I'm cautiously optimistic about SKYFALL and I hope it's Craig's best outing so far but after QOS it can't be much worse.

The Shanghai scenes make me wonder if there might be a hint of benign bizarre but guess that would probably overestimating the film.

Well, in truth, I'm not really expecting SKYFALL to make any better use of Shanghai than MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE III did. It'll probably just be the venue for a large-scale action sequence, and in any case most of the interiors will be filmed in Britain, I expect.

Even so, the use of Shanghai is one of the things that has me looking forward to SKYFALL.

Same. Nice to see some real visual flair after QOS, which was, for the most part, hideous to look at.

Jack Wade wrote:

Same. Nice to see some real visual flair after QOS, which was, for the most part, hideous to look at.

QUANTUM OF SOLACE was many things, most of them bad, but it sure wasn't "hideous."

Harmsway wrote:

Jack Wade wrote:

Same. Nice to see some real visual flair after QOS, which was, for the most part, hideous to look at.

QUANTUM OF SOLACE was many things, most of them bad, but it sure wasn't "hideous."

The dreary locations made it tough to look at.

Gotta disagree there, Harms. There are some good shots in the film, but for the most part the camera is all over the shop. This, in tandem with the jerky editing, renders SOLACE a pretty ugly film (in addition, the colour scheme tends to be dull and grey - the film's dominant colour is a sort of muddy brown). Indeed, I'd rank it as the most visually displeasing of all the Bonds (at least with TWINE you can tell what's going on, boring though what's going on usually is).

Loomis wrote:

Gotta disagree there, Harms. There are some good shots in the film, but for the most part the camera is all over the shop. This, in tandem with the jerky editing, renders SOLACE a pretty ugly film (in addition, the colour scheme tends to be dull and grey).

The editing is the problem, not the cinematography. The cinematography is reasonably competent throughout (if admittedly a bit too limited in its color palette thanks to some overdone digital grading that renders the film mostly in mostly blue/orange-tan contrast and locations that tend to be a bit monochromatic), it's just that none of the images are given time to breathe, and are edited together in ways that don't make a lick of sense. Nothing about the way the film is shot renders the film incomprehensible, and on a shot-by-shot basis, the film tends to be elegantly photographed.

bondfan06 wrote:

The Shanghai scenes make me wonder if there might be a hint of benign bizarre but guess that would probably overestimating the film.

Based on what little we've actually seen, the Shanghai scenes all appear to be bathed in neon light. One of the clapperboards showed a neon green sign, the introductory video and first official photo showed a lot of neon blue, and reports of second-unit filming in the city spoke of a highway awash in neon purple. Now, I get that neon isn't going to be to everyone's tastes, and it's probably not enough to satisfy the definition of "benign bizarre", but I certainly think that the city will have a unique look in SKYFALL, maybe even encroaching on BLADE RUNNER territory.

When it was first announced that Bond would visit Dubai in CARTE BLANCHE, a lot of people hoped Deaver would portray it as being tacky and insubstantial, a Disneyland for adults. Ultimately, it didn't come across that way, but with all its neon lights, I think Shanghai could.

Harmsway wrote:

Loomis wrote:

Gotta disagree there, Harms. There are some good shots in the film, but for the most part the camera is all over the shop. This, in tandem with the jerky editing, renders SOLACE a pretty ugly film (in addition, the colour scheme tends to be dull and grey).

The editing is the problem, not the cinematography. The cinematography is reasonably competent throughout (if admittedly a bit too limited in its color palette thanks to some overdone digital grading that renders the film mostly in mostly blue/orange-tan contrast and locations that tend to be a bit monochromatic), it's just that none of the images are given time to breathe, and are edited together in ways that don't make a lick of sense. Nothing about the way the film is shot renders the film incomprehensible, and on a shot-by-shot basis, the film tends to be elegantly photographed.

Yep, the editing is certainly more problematic than the cinematography. On a shot-by-shot basis, there's more than enough in there for a lovely-looking coffee table book, but (as with DRIVE) I find that the "stylish" cinematography in SOLACE tends to distance me from the story and characters rather than draw me in.

Flawed as it is, I find Roberto Shaeffer's cinematography for QUANTUM OF SHITOLACE a lot more appealing and easy on the eyes than Phil Meheux's job for CASINO ROYALE, which wasn't that bad to begin with, but was digitally graded to buggery in post-production.

Sharky wrote:

Flawed as it is, I find Roberto Shaeffer's cinematography for QUANTUM OF SHITOLACE a lot more appealing and easy on the eyes than Phil Meheux's job for CASINO ROYALE, which wasn't that bad to begin with, but was digitally graded to buggery in post-production.

I agree with this. Many parts of CR also look too much like a candy. I get it that Venice and Lake Como are beautiful and all - but the over-the-top cinematography made it seem like a Disney film or something. It looked too artificial (The Tourist is a film that comes to mind with the same problems). Schaefer's work on QOS seemed a lot more earnest and interesting. It's a crime that it was butchered by the editors, but there's enough visual appeal to make QOS "easier" to rewatch than CR. It's a shame the two films turned out so opposite in their lensing and cutting. Mendes, Deakins and co. will have no excuse to fuck up, giving the ample production and post-production time that Skyfall has.

The visual landscape of QUANTUM OF SOLACE is a bit colder--more sterile--than the super-warm colors of CASINO ROYALE (which GeneralGogol describes as "like a candy" above, and I can kinda see what he means by that). Between the two of 'em, I'll take the visual landscape CASINO ROYALE, unreal though it is in its coloring. I prefer Campbell's/Meheux's composition to that of Forster/Schaefer.

We'll see what the collaboration between Mendes and Deakins gives us in SKYFALL.

I prefer the muted grainier look of QOS, especially in the Bolivian desert scenes. Strange, did Superunknown85 once compare its "visual landscape" to a Fisher Price set? That applies more to CR IMO, especially the Madagascar chase.

As far "sterile" goes, it's a toss up between Bregenz and the MINORITY REPORT MI6 in QOS, and the Miami portion of CR.

Sharky wrote:

I prefer the muted grainier look of QOS, especially in the Bolivian desert scenes.

If there's one thing I don't want for Bond, its a desaturated color palette. Thus, the color grading for QUANTUM thus bothers me a whole lot more than the color grading for CASINO ROYALE. (And, if I want, I can counter-act the over-the-top saturation of CASINO ROYALE with my television's color settings, but I can't effectively re-saturate the more washed-out images of QUANTUM.)

But a lot of QUANTUM's sparse look is also due to Gassner's production design, which I don't love.

Sharky wrote:

As far "sterile" goes, it's a toss up between Bregenz and the MINORITY REPORT MI6 in QOS, and the Miami portion of CR.

They have similar vibes only because of the look of the location, not because of the nature of the photography itself.

Quote :

If there's one thing I don't want for Bond, its a desaturated color palette.

Michael Reed's colour pallet for OHMSS was relativity desaturated compared to the Technicolor look of the previous films, and it still looks pretty amazing.

Harmsway wrote:

They have similar vibes only because of the look of the location, not because of the nature of the photography itself.

Perhaps, but I still find the lensing/grading of the Miami chase pretty metallic, cold, sterile and desaturated. Reminds me of the some of the stuff in DIE HARD 4.

Sharky wrote:

Michael Reed's colour pallet for OHMSS was relativity desaturated compared to the Technicolor look of the previous films, and it still looks pretty amazing.

Key word is "relatively." There are still a lot of vibrant colors at play in OHMSS, even if they tend to be given more subtle expression than the strong Technicolor of its predecessors.

Alas, QUANTUM OF SOLACE exists almost entirely in shades of blue, grey, and orange-ish tan, yet another victim of the "teal and orange" trend.

Harmsway wrote:

Alas, QUANTUM OF SOLACE exists almost entirely in shades of blue, grey, and orange-ish tan, yet another victim of the "teal and orange" trend.

The casino scenes looked pretty orange and sepia to me.

Sharky wrote:

The casino scenes looked pretty orange and sepia to me.

Largely because of the colors of the set than because of the digital grading imposing those colors on the film. Even in those sequences, other colors are permitted to stand out in the frame and have a vibrance of their own. But the film does not depend overwhelmingly on such a color palette in its locations, either.

In QUANTUM OF SOLACE, the grading is responsible for practically everything being in those same colors because it wipes out the presence of other colors that might has some presence. It's a textbook example of what's wrong with most color timing in today's mainstream films (though it's hardly as bad as, say, TRANSFORMERS 2, in this regard).

Harmsway wrote:

Sharky wrote:

The casino scenes looked pretty orange and sepia to me.

Largely because of the colors of the set than because of the digital grading imposing those colors on the film.

I'm not denying that the colour scheme originates from the lighting and sepia wallpaper. I just arguing that the digital grading unnecessarily exaggerates these already present colours.

Take a look at the trailer, showing pre-digital intermediate footage:.



I prefer how the natural shades of colours appear here. Understated but elegant. It also looks more like Super 35mm film to my eyes than the final product does.