Mad Men

The energy came back into the show with this most recent episode,

There are a few problems with this season so far:

1) So far, all three episodes have offered no real striking developments of their own. These three episodes have all just been (somewhat inevitable) fallout from season five. I keep wondering when the show is going to push into new territory.

2) Don's backslide into relentless, awful womanizing was telegraphed by the end of season five. But it also means we're back where we were before, with a fairly been-there, done-that feel to all the narrative progression. That makes it hard to invest in all this "Will Don Draper ever find peace?" handwringing. How differently this season might feel had Don *not* cheated on Megan after season five.

3) In this last episode, the show tries to establish Dawn as a character in her own right. Good idea (and an overdue one, at that), but horrible execution. They're clearly very uncomfortable with her character.

The Dawn storyline felt like giving in to everyone who demanded one but I liked that it enabled us to see Joan from the secretary's POV again, which we havent for a while.

I questioned the fact that Megan could get to work and back so quickly so I did some research and was surprised to find that 1960s soaps were largely shot live in New York which I didn't know.

Dating: Johnson's still in the race so it's pre March 31st. The eisode takes place over four days, and the morning of day 4 there's a radio announcement about Senator Kennedy meeting with Mayor Lindsay and the nearest time RFK was in NYC was the St. Patrick's Day Parade after he announced his candidacy on th 16th, so I think we may be just before that, spanning March 12-15.

But I'm not 100% sure.

UPDATE: I'm more sure. Harry references the NYU protest against Dow of 500 students, which took place on March 6, the previous week. I think this pretty solidly establishes the March 12-15 timeframe, as we're clearly on the cusp of the Bobby Kennedy announcement but it hasn't taken place yet (else it would be bigger news in the two election discussions that took place).

The White Tuxedo wrote:

Sad to see Heinz go because I like the actor who plays Raymond. Maybe he'll go to Peggy's agency, even if he hates the Ketchup dude.

How would that be an obstacle? Ketchup went to JWT and the reason he fired SCDP was because they basically completely betrayed his own confidence.

Harmsway wrote:

There are a few problems with this season so far:

1) So far, all three episodes have offered no real striking developments of their own. These three episodes have all just been (somewhat inevitable) fallout from season five. I keep wondering when the show is going to push into new territory.

2) Don's backslide into relentless, awful womanizing was telegraphed by the end of season five. But it also means we're back where we were before, with a fairly been-there, done-that feel to all the narrative progression. That makes it hard to invest in all this "Will Don Draper ever find peace?" handwringing. How differently this season might feel had Don *not* cheated on Megan after season five.

3) In this last episode, the show tries to establish Dawn as a character in her own right. Good idea (and an overdue one, at that), but horrible execution. They're clearly very uncomfortable with her character.

Yup. Everything just seems sort of stuck in park.

The only time I've felt anything this season was really when Peggy's agency showed up for the ketchup pitch. Based on that alone, Sunday's episode is probably the best of the season so far.

Vesper wrote:

The White Tuxedo wrote:

Sad to see Heinz go because I like the actor who plays Raymond. Maybe he'll go to Peggy's agency, even if he hates the Ketchup dude.

How would that be an obstacle? Ketchup went to JWT and the reason he fired SCDP was because they basically completely betrayed his own confidence.

Oh, I thought CGC got Ketchup. I'll pick that up whenever I see the episode again.

I'm waiting to see more of S6 before I render judgements. I don't really have any big complaints thus far. As I've said, I like the first four episodes (counting the premiere as two) of this season more than those of S5. S5 to me really hits it stride with the fifth episode, "Signal 30".

I like to look at the whole season with this show, and it's still in basically the "first act" of the overall season. At least as I see it. I see it as things being set up. And I don't quite see it as a retread with Don. Maybe it's happening lightly early on this season, and things to going to spiral in some other direction. Don is obviously unhappy with Megan. I don't see this marriage lasting. It'll be the second time for Don. Maybe he'll try to change after this. Weiner said something about S6 having to do with people making the same mistakes over and over, realizing it, and trying to change that. Don said in the premiere, "I want to stop doing this."

Another SOPRANOS-style off-kilter ending?

“[Matthew Weiner] says he’s told his wife and a few writers about the ending of the entire series. He says that he’s been told it’s a disaster, but he’s going with it.”


And Weiner was recently on Fresh Air:

Weiner, who's famously careful not to reveal spoilers, suggests that the show's fans have "an investment in the fact that this man is in his worst state — the way 1968 is — because it is overrunning his life and it's page 1 in the story: He's going into hell. This is the descent. Maybe he'll come out on the other side, or maybe he'll just take up residence there."

As long as he doesn't jump out of a window.

Well, I'm along for the ride. Torture these people, I say. I enjoy watching it.

And... Jon Hamm is on Letterman. Didn't know.

Finally watched "The Collaborators".

Now I'm gonna time travel to Trudy's place and let her know I'm available.

The White Tuxedo wrote:

Torture these people, I say. I enjoy watching it.

You sound like Lars von Trier.

Just started season two (picked up the one-to-five DVD box set recently). Good entertainment, although I'm still waiting for it to seem organic and truly absorbing.

Like an Arthur Miller play, MAD MEN never feels completely organic.

But the fifth season really does deliver the goods.

Can't get into it, to me MAD MEN is hindered by its setting. It wants to be too many things at once, picaresque and moral, sentimental and cool, old school and modern, conventional and groundbreaking. All that with 21st century hindsight that presents the viewer with a cosy shiver about MAD MEN's characters from the land of the past. In the end it's a show that wants to appeal to people who like to wax away lyrical about 'the good old times' but are actually far too young to even remember the eighties. Worse, it pretends to do away with the rose-coloured specs reserved exclusively for the edifying consideration of days gone by, only to once more instil exactly that kind of glorification with the more naive part of its audience.

At the same time none of the themes and motifs of MAD MEN are outdated or obsolete, yet the setting allows people the illusion, rather smug I might add, that we've actually progressed since 1965. Which evidently can't be the case if - with few changes - the show could just as well be set during the puritan relapse of the years after 2001. So no, to me it's not that interesting. Have to admit I can see what's so compelling for others though, Draper is a fascinating character, like a car crash about to happen in slowmo. But overall it doesn't pique my interest any more.

6of1 wrote:

Worse, it pretends to do away with the rose-coloured specs reserved exclusively for the edifying consideration of days gone by, only to once more instil exactly that kind of glorification with the more naive part of its audience.

I can understand having that reaction, but that sort of critique doesn't hold up if you look at the long-term arc of the series and its cumulative effect. Whatever glorification of the 1960s mystique was there in the first four seasons has been more or less fully eroded away in the fifth season, and we're now squarely in an existential hell in season six.

In that case I'll have to dig deeper and give it a second chance. Didn't think it would go there.

I find Allison Brie hot, and seeing her attempt to mimic internet memes somehow makes her even more hot.

Latest episode has PLANET OF THE APES used rather well.

Stickin' with the season. Seeing where it goes. Won't compare it past season until I see the whole thing, but it seems to be at least as good as MAD MEN usually is, even if it may not be the strongest run of the series.

I don't think the show suddenly sucks as I've read people say online.

I really liked the last episode. Reminded me of the JFK episode only better because the characters were less passsive. I loved Don and Bobby at the movies.

That must've been the most they've done with Bobby since... ever. Worked out nicely I think.

I thought they captured the feeling really well of what the King assassination must have felt like. I don't know if I like it better than the JFK episode, though.

I liked the incorporation of APES.

The wallpaper tearing struck me immediately as probably some kind of metaphor.

Absolutely. I just found that the JFK episode was too much about the event than the characters, whereas this episode felt like it corrected the error. I loved the Pete/Harry fight, and Joan's awkward attempt to comfort Dawn.

I feel like there is something really wrong with Bobby deep down. His lying that has become habitual for example. He seems like a good kid who.would be much better with his dad around more but is gonna turn out bad because of the lack of Don, whereas Sally's problems are more the usual whiny angst of a teen girl. Whereas I feel there is something more subtly and seriously wrong with Bobby.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

Absolutely. I just found that the JFK episode was too much about the event than the characters, whereas this episode felt like it corrected the error. I loved the Pete/Harry fight, and Joan's awkward attempt to comfort Dawn.

I feel like there is something really wrong with Bobby deep down. His lying that has become habitual for example. He seems like a good kid who.would be much better with his dad around more but is gonna turn out bad because of the lack of Don, whereas Sally's problems are more the usual whiny angst of a teen girl. Whereas I feel there is something more subtly and seriously wrong with Bobby.

It'll be interesting to see what route they go with Bobby, he's been neglected a lot from the show besides his father, so it would be nice to see how they go about him and Don.

I barely remember that JFK episode, that's the price to pay for plowing through the episodes without thinking about each of them. I still haven't gotten around to rewatching the previous episodes like I wanted to before S6.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

Absolutely. I just found that the JFK episode was too much about the event than the characters, whereas this episode felt like it corrected the error.

I almost felt the opposite. I'm rewatching it now, though.

Here's something interesting. I have a few mutual friends with Robert Morse, and he's listed as a "former cast member". I was gonna like his page on Facebook, and found a profile instead.

https://www.facebook.com/robert.morse.754

Hmm. Just a word, I guess. Though he did look like he'd keel over during the Pete/Harry fight.

I liked the Bobby storyline. But the immediate reactions to the MLK assassination rang a bit false to the characters to me. I don't buy for a second that 90% of the staff of this ass-backwards, old school Republican ad firm would react more viscerally to the news of Dr King's assassination than they did Kennedy's. Especially given by this point they would be somewhat desensitised.

The inability for them to relate to the black characters though I thought was well handled.

Really hope the pressure of being a senator's wife gives Betty an eating disorder. The prosthetics and fat suit are really fake looking.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

Absolutely. I just found that the JFK episode was too much about the event than the characters, whereas this episode felt like it corrected the error. I loved the Pete/Harry fight, and Joan's awkward attempt to comfort Dawn.

I really disagree. I think the JFK episode is probably one of the finest hours in the series. That event has to take up some focus, to not do so would be like doing a film about 9/11 where the characters find out about the towers, shrug their shoulders and go on with their gardening. I thought it was an excellent study about how people react in a crisis like that. That's before you get the symmetry of the downfall of Camelot with the end of the agency and the Draper marriage.

I did think some of the characters reacted too strongly, but the Pete/Harry fight made sense. Pete has always been seen as an old-school Democrat, always been seen as liberal towards blacks, whereas Harry has been seen time and time again as valuing bottom line before anything else.

And besides, most people did react strongly - even King's political enemies found the assassination shameful.