"Modgate"

Well, so much for the return of the soldier...

During my recent absence, a moderator opened multiple accounts to impersonate me, made a few mischievous posts, then sat back and watched while the mini mods debated my merits or lack of them. A joke worthy of Vasiliy Ulrikh to be sure, but unfortunately I now know rather too much about bondandbeyond’s inner workings to stay.

As with life it was mainly the women that made my time here worthwhile so to Rave, Sabine, and Santa, I say ‘thank you’. If anyone wishes to catch up they’ll find me at fullbushesmainstream.com

I don't know what to say.

I feel fucking terrible what I've done, and no amount of cheap jokes, or false optimism, will make up for that. I PMed the women of BAB yesterday, and hopefully they'll respond, though if they feel like kneeing me in the bollocks for this, I can fully understand. I was a complete and utter prick.

I've destroyed what I tried to create here..I invited dozens of members here, including Ambler, and look what I've done. I've unwittingly sent him to the Praesidium in a turn of events with as many turncoats and smokescreens as a Le Carré plot, yet with no overarching design. Just plain stupidity on my part.

I'm coming up to a crushing deadline for a series of compositions, while I'm working my arse off applying for jobs of unskilled labour, along with sitting the poxy Health, Safety and Environment Test and what-have-you, all so I can work on an East London construction site for shoddy pay, while I come home in the evening, knackered, to focus on my music. This is just an unhealthy distraction.

In short I sincerely apologise, though not that it'll make a difference.

Thank fuck I've got a bottle of single malt lying around.

Don’t beat yourself up about this, Sharky, I’d hate you to do that.

What you did was actually rather funny and is not the reason I’m leaving. It’s Lazenby’s absolutist ruling that nothing needs to change that has made up my mind. His inability to grasp the importance of what’s happened is hardly your doing.

BABs is a forum with great potential and your role in building it has never been fully appreciated. I hope things work out here, but, if they don’t, you’ve shown what you’re capable of.

I’m sure you’ll do great things and this will be but a barely remembered footnote.

Thank you Ambler. Your words are of a great help.

Check your PMs.

I'm going to be gone for a while, as well.

I've got a job shooting behind the scenes of New York Fashion Week, meaning I'll be exposed to a bunch of flat-chested C***S for the next day or so. I'm also in the process of creating a meaningful film project; something far better than the amateurish crap I've churned out during the past couple of years. It's going to require a lot of planning and dedication to get it right, so I'm going to be completely occupied with that. It'll also be my first time shooting on a Canon 5d Mark II, so I need to learn that camera (and lenses) like the back of my hand. I hope to have some footage by February. Maybe I could get you folks to critique it.

Sharky: I hope the compositions work out for you. I hope to hear some of your music sometime down the line.

Ambler: Sorry to have you leave so soon, but I understand your reasons. Be sure to keep in touch.

Everyone else: Shoot me a PM if any nude photos of Dog_Bond get leaked. I can't miss that.


So long, for now.

Well so long folks. Best of British.

*echo*



*echo*

Control, I'll be very interested in hearing your opinion of the 5dmkII, as well as seeing some footage.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck with your serious film project. The last time I was totally committed to a film project (over a period of some years), I had to deal with the death of a cast member and so many other calamities that it was almost a blessing when the bank and the lab wound up owning most of the uncompleted film. I hope you avoid such pitfalls.

Erica Ambler wrote:

What you did was actually rather funny and is not the reason I’m leaving. It’s Lazenby’s absolutist ruling that nothing needs to change that has made up my mind. His inability to grasp the importance of what’s happened is hardly your doing.

Erm... :scratch:

Inability to grasp the importance of what exactly?

The j7 situation? Addressed when I clearly stated there'll be no racist assclowns allowed here, which I thought was what you wanted.

Sacking mods? It would help if you told me which mods deserved sacking and why. Otherwise, why would I sack mods and piss people off by doing so, and who would that benefit?

Or is it this whole multiple account malarkey? What would you want me to do about that? Fire Sharky? You just said yourself that you found what he did to be funny.

The only thing I'm failing to grasp here is why you again want to leave and why Sharky and/or Control are again suggesting to follow suit. Nothing will ever change or improve if the best members here take that attitude. There's no need for any of this. If somebody wants something specific done around here for valid reasons, then all you need do is ask me and I'll either do it or bust my ass trying to.

And, for the record, Sharky's contributions to this place have always been recognised. There's no member I value higher, and M felt the same way, which is why I don't care if he sets up 500 multiple accounts, as his brilliant work here easily offsets it.

When I posted my ideas on what needed to be done to improve the forum I was not aware of The Dungeon’s existence let alone its contents. (For those not in the know - I didn't know until two days ago - The Dungeon is a hidden area of BABs where the moderators go to discuss ordinary members’ failings.) When I was given access to it I found serious misbehaviour by the moderators.

1. The moderators admitted to each other (but not to the wider membership) that they regularly edited and altered J7wild’s postings. This has resulted in a situation where a member was banned on the basis of his posts even though they were regularly adulterated by the management. In criminal cases that’s called tampering with the evidence and is completely unacceptable behaviour. All concerned should be immediately removed or step down as they have shown they are unfit to be moderators. Who would it benefit you ask? Truth and justice. As a Liverpudlian and post-Hillsborough inquiry I’m sure you will agree that is important.

Ironically enough, the only moderator who has requested to be removed from his position is Gravity, who was not involved in these actions. As I understand it, it’s his disgust and shock at what's been going on that makes him no longer wish to be associated with BAB’s moderating team

2. True, I found Sharky’s creation of multiple accounts and his (admittedly accurate) imitation of me to be amusing. However, I was less pleased to find that the moderators then discussed these postings in The Dungeon - unaware they were the work of Sharky - and used them as an excuse to throw all sorts of shit at me. More irony as I was the only person in the forum who argued for early action against J7wild, which might well have prevented this forum’s freefall.

To cap it all your response to these misdemeanours is:

‘The mods here are mostly people who … have shown impeccable tact and common sense since becoming mods here. No change needed there.’

Forgive me for not being impressed by your dismissal of what’s been going on here. Largo's Shark and Control will have to speak for themselves but I doubt they would have left if they were as sanguine about things as you. I've enjoyed your writings in the past, Lazenby., but more was required of you here. Blind loyalty is never a good thing.

Erica Ambler wrote:

(For those not in the know - I didn't know until two days ago - The Dungeon is a hidden area of BABs where the moderators go to discuss ordinary members’ failings.)

From someone in the know, The Dungeon (previously known as The Archive) was set up solely to house a backlot of good posts which may have contained sensitive material in the wake of the MI6 debacle. It was time to move on from that debacle, thus some of the more heated posts were archived to prevent future inflammation of the situation. This area was M's creation, just in case anybody doubts my opposition to things being kept hidden on forums. I relabelled the area "The Dungeon" because the area has recently been turned into little more than an area/cesspool for people to lynch j7wild. Yes, people assumed that recent multiple accounts here were yours, and made comments about this in The Dungeon, but I can't for the life of me understand why those posts couldn't have simply been made on the main boards, especially as I was always under the impression you had access to The Dungeon anyway.

Now, you want action? Here's something I'll be all too happy to act on. The Dungeon will have it's contents reinstated to the main boards. I wasn't responsible for it in the first place, so I'll be damned if I'm gonna take the heat from someone "outing" it on my watch, especially when I've only been admin for all of five minutes.

You’ve inherited a mess, Lazenby, that much is obvious, but you should realise that The Dungeon itself is not the issue.

The problem is BAB’s inadequate and self-satisfied moderating team and – I regret to say - your failure to acknowledge that they have fallen short of acceptable standards. Yes, the situation happened on M’s watch but you’re in charge now so it’s perfectly reasonable for me - and anyone else - to judge you by how you deal with this.

If you’re finding all this a bit too much so soon into your tenure then there’s plenty of help out there. The first step might be to issue the moderators with some guidelines on how to behave: try http://www.communityspark.com/the-real-purpose-of-forum-moderators-revealed/ for some good advice.

Want more irony? The last guy that I sent that link to was James Page.

Yeah, and look what f*cking happened to him.

Full disclosure complete. j7 now has the truth. Get a good lawyer or ask South Yorkshire Police how to alter your statements, the choice is yours. No more secret sh*t on the boards, not while it's on my head.

I do think we were better off having only maybe five or less global mods. Bringing it up to ten always seemed unnecessary for me, since we have section mods anyway (and some aren't even posting here anymore). So I agree with Ambler that the Mod list needs to be sorted out. Retire those who either not post or wish to no longer mod like Brown and Shark.

Well, I've said too much to return here - small communities are fragile things. However, I'll make a couple more observations before I go. Again. ;)

1. Regardless of performance issues, there are too many moderators here. I know M believed that we should all have an equal say, but if every regular poster is a moderator then the title means nothing, and it needs to mean something if it's to attract any respect. Slim the team down to a more reasonable size. If you won't decide (though that's what leadership is all about) then you can always let them draw cyber straws.

2. We both agree that Sharky has been a major good for this forum. I certainly didn't intend him to follow my departure, though perhaps being a moderator is not the best role for him. I do think he would make a very good joint administrator of this place and it would help spread your load. And as you say, no one has been a better ambassador for this forum.

Why not invite him to help? I'm sure you could both get this place moving again despite the recent hiccups.

Yup, and here's the list as it stands: https://bondandbeyond.forumotion.com/t805-bond-and-beyond-moderator-list

Outdated and with section mods who haven't been around for awhile. It needs cleaning up.

The "sectional moderator" role needs to go. It's a pointless appointment intended solely to make everyone feel that they are specialists in some area. This is a forum, not the Starship bleeding Enterprise.

As Ambler and Python suggest, cut the mod team down to about three or four, as to what it was when this place first launched. Ideally these should be mods with a clean reputation (so not Control, Wade or me). I'm very flattered by Ambler's suggestion of making me a co-admin, though I'm not sure if the forum software would allow that. Though if it does, I'd be happy to share the job. I'd be better suited to working behind the scenes than as some kind of shepherd on the boards, hopelessly trying to encourage interaction.

Keep The Dungeon, but lock it and throw away the key. Fill it with asps and rename it "The Well of Souls" or something. In other words, use it as a storage space for the old threads, but disable the ability to create new threads or posts. Everything else must be discussed in the open.

Another idea that just hit me, would be to create a new section called "The Live Wire", "The Crucible", "The Frying Pan" or something similar. This would be for controversial threads (i.e. American politics and news) that give off a bad vibe to prospective members. Hide it from public view and give it a description that serves as a disclaimer, so no one's surprised about its content.

As I said, I've got this killer deadline facing me in the next month, so I'll be posting here very little, if at all. At best I might shed some thoughts on Thomas Newman's SKYFALL score when released, along with the inevitable 30 second samples, but not much more. I'd be more open to bouncing off ideas with Laz through PM or email, in order to restore BAB back to what it was earlier this year.

Hopefully when work permits, Ambler can return to find BAB in better shape than ever.

What I need are mods offering to stand down if we're gonna reduce excess modship. Nobody deserves to be fired.

Moderators falsify members posts and don't deserve to be fired? Bullshit.

They don't post for a year and you leave them in place? Bullshit.

Laz, you have this idea that being a moderator is some kind of award for long service, but it's nothing to do with that. Being a mod is a responsible and demanding position for which only some people are suited.

Just keep it to Tux, FieldsMan, along with someone else - Khan/Python/Gravy/Hilly. What it originally was, minus Control.

As an alternative to going back to square one, think about who are the most peaceful, sane and level-headed users here. For my money that would be Hilly above all else, followed by perhaps Loomis, Harmsway, trevanian, dr. stranglove and Salomé. Can't think of a fairer jury here than that.

I think we should keep things simple. We have 10 mods. All are quite capable as far as I am concerned, but if some want to quit, that's their call, but I don't think any need to. Mistakes have been made but they can all be learned from and serve to make for a better mod team

BAB is a unique board. It's about provocative opinions and none of us should feel the need to post with one hand tied behind our back.

As mods we should be enforcing adult civility. In otherwords crack down on pissy juvenile name calling. If you want to hurl veiled insults at your fellow members than find a way to do it in a creative, intelligent, interesting way. Such is the spirit of BAB.

I agree with Shark. We need to get rid of the sectional mods and simply set up a mods only section where we can disucss what needs to be discussed, without out cluttering up the public boards. If we have issues with each other in terms of how we mod, that can be discussed there, again without cluttering up the public boards.

At present we cannot do that. We have to use the pm function which is tedious.

I don't think any sections should be hidden, especially not the most provocative sections.

What makes BAB great is it's irreverent nature. We don't moderate for correctness of opinion here. The less modding the better really but when modding is needed we should just do it.

J7 who btw, I kind of actually like, (he can be a friendly sort. he doesn't take off on his fellow members or stalk or hound or bully) should have been suspended on the spot for his infamous "J" posting. The posting was ignorant in the extreme. Any mod could have suspended him. I wasn't a mod at the time but I would have acted if I was. And not because discussion of the "J's" is a sacred cow, but because the comment was simply ignorant. I think we all know what line he crossed thus there is no need to expand on the notion of ignorant in this context. But as mods its our job to make that call and we might not always get it right, but c'est la vie. Personally I would always err on the side of free expression.

I haven't been around for a couple of weeks and I am still swamped, (as I have advised Laz) but we all go through busy times so our board participation will ebb and flow. I tend not to announce my comings and goings because I am never really sure what each new day will bring in terms of how much time I have and what I do with it.

I think BABs is in great shape. I say keep it all public. Create a mod section where full-mods can discuss what needs to be discussed and that's it.

I would encourage all ten mods to stay in place. Drop out if you want though, but otherwise I think all ten are perfectly capable of modding the board, some with more energy than others, but so what. Tux says he doesn't mod, but he does in his own quiet way, because he is still a presence, and he knows his way around the Bond boards. His words carry weight. Just the presence of a mod in a discussion should somewhat moderate the behaviour of wild and crazy newbies.

What's great about is BAB, is we don't all have to like each other, certainly not agree with each other, but its a place where we can talk frankly without being modded for correct thinking. There are no sacred cows here, other than general "civility" and that quite honestly would have to be established by the mods. The mods will set the tone. It is so on any board.

As I told Laz when I finally logged back in last night, I'm not likely to be spending much time on the board in the near little while, although I can't say for sure how long. I've got new work that requires much attention, but as I hate working, in this mid-life stage of life, much prefering my leisure pursuits and indulgences, I intend to ultimately conspire to give as little attention as possible. In the meantime, work hard I must.

This is the last post I intend to offer on BAB workings. Any future offerings on modding, I will contribute to a mod-only section. I would prefer to be active and making noise in the public forms, and of course I'll do what modding needs to be done, when I'm around. With 10 mods there should always be someone around.

In the meantime Laz has my full support. He's a great choice. Yes I know, butt-kissing, but tough poop. Laz is the new boss.

I agree with a lot of what you say there timmer, but I still think 10 mods is far too many. I know Laz wants to be a nice guy and not have to fire anyone, but the forum's hierarchy urgently needs a reshuffle. Something Ambler hinted at but has been sort of forgotten is mods not encouraging discussion amongst the broader community, and posting within their own niches. i.e. Tux with the Mad Men and Trek threads (Python posts in the later too, but he also spends more time with the rest of BAB). That should be unacceptable.

Perhaps a fortnightly shift of mod duties would be a good way to avoid complacency.

I'd prefer to remain a mod, but I won't complain if my modship is revoked so if you're gonna minimize the amount of mods, you don't have to be afraid of asking for my resignation. I post more often than mod and when I do mod it's often to clean up threads by merging, splitting, retitling, fixing posts with errors such as misuse of quotations/images ect. Heck I wouldn't mind being made a co-admin (maybe designated second in command to Lazenby's first), if only just to work the organizing the sections and such but with the approval of Laz. Just throwing that out there.

Python makes a good case for doing routine mod chores, and largely under the radar so our system is working, and I think the rest of us have done a little bit of that stuff here and there as well, but Python maybe more diligently than others.

I think now we can end all the drama and put our energies back into the various discussion topics, and rattle each other there instead ;). I love the new Mommy Dench picture at the top btw. Pure BAB.

This whole discussion is completely public btw. I was reading it without even having logged on.

I suggest that

1. we hold steady with the mods that havent' actually quit. Those that have are welcome back. Mod selection though is completely and totally Admin's call. The rest of us are just offering up input.

2. Clean-up these public discussions (such as this one) regarding house cleaning matters and put them in a mod-only archive section. Get the public face of the board back in order. Laz can do this quite easily. And get back to a routine site suggestions etc thread open to everyone. Mod matters can be discussed in a mod section.

3. I think we go back to basics. A public section view. A members-only view and a mod/admin section. That's it. Simple.

btw I don't care what Tux is doing in Madmen. I don't watch the show, so I've never visited the thread. But its not like others can't join in if they want.

And as for public view, some sections as members-only view isn't a bad idea. We already do that anyway with the "Bottom's Up Club" section. I think things are good the way they are, but if Admin wants to hide some other sections, fine, but I'm really ambivalent on the matter, as long as the sections are all open to the members when they log-on.

And if Laz wants to add a second admin, if that's even possible, that's his call.