Thomas Newman's Skyfall Score.

"Inside Man" is about the ony thing I liked in Arnold's QOS efforts. Too little, too late, as Sharky says.

Arnold had a good run of 11 years and 5 films. Impressive for someone who's no Barry, but it's time for a change. Arnold is yesterday's man and we're heading towards a brave new world.

That just makes me wonder how much creative control the composer actually has over the film. We've seen countless occasions where the producers have shown a lot of influence over various parts of the film, most notably in QUANTUM OF SOLACE, where Michael G. Wilson came up with the idea of a villain causing a drought by damming underground rivers, which was pretty weak.

So I wonder if they have made some rather general requests of the score in the past as well, like when the Bond theme should be used.

They definitely have an influence of sorts, although not too much has been revealed. Here's what's definitely known on the record.

GOLDENEYE - The St. Petersburg sequence being rescored by John Altman to utilize the Bond theme more traditionally.

SKYFALL - They requested Newman to rescore the section with Bond arriving at the casino with Adele's theme incorporated.

That's about it. You could speculate that for TOMORROW NEVER DIES they requested Arnold to use the Bond theme more frequently as a reaction to GOLDENEYE getting a lot of criticism for not sounding like a Bond score.

So there's obviously influence of some kind. And I can't help but wonder if that influence was relaxed for QUANTUM OF SOLACE. After all, the cinematography was very experimental, so I can't help but wonder if EON stepped back a bit on all fronts. And if that's the case, then can we really hold Arnold accountable if he is working to a restrictive or conservative brief? I don't think it's coincidence that he tried some rather diverse stuff in QUANTUM OF SOLACE - stuff like using the Aston's engine note as part of the first track, and the electric guitar on "Pursuit at Port-au-Prince".

QUANTUM OF SOLACE might have been disappointing, but it was defiantely Arnold's best score.

Python wrote:

They definitely have an influence of sorts, although not too much has been revealed. Here's what's definitely known on the record.

GOLDENEYE - The St. Petersburg sequence being rescored by John Altman to utilize the Bond theme more traditionally.

I kinda like the way Serra's unused track utilises the Bond Theme, but overall the theatrical version was probably an improvement. Not a fan of the unreleased track, particularly the squeaky voice you first hear at 1:02: www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTFeynk02Qo#t=1m

Sounds vaguely Bollywood, I dunno.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

So there's obviously influence of some kind. And I can't help but wonder if that influence was relaxed for QUANTUM OF SOLACE. After all, the cinematography was very experimental, so I can't help but wonder if EON stepped back a bit on all fronts. And if that's the case, then can we really hold Arnold accountable if he is working to a restrictive or conservative brief? I don't think it's coincidence that he tried some rather diverse stuff in QUANTUM OF SOLACE - stuff like using the Aston's engine note as part of the first track, and the electric guitar on "Pursuit at Port-au-Prince".

QUANTUM OF SOLACE might have been disappointing, but it was defiantely Arnold's best score.

The reason has a lot to do with how Marc Forster had Arnold take a different approach by writing music based on the script and spending much more time on the material to have everything thought through. It definitely makes a difference and if Arnold is to return I do hope he learned something valuable from his experience in QOS. See? Looks like Forster got one thing right on QOS.

Also should be noted that Forster intended to bring in his own composer much like how he brought in his own filmmaking crew. EON however convinced Forster to seriously consider Arnold and had him listen to his previous works. I assume they tried to have Mendes consider Arnold as well but instead stuck to his guns on Newman, which might explain why they made a bogus story of Arnold not being available because of the Olympics. They didn't want it to look like their darling Arnold was snubbed by Mendes, even though Arnold said the Olympics had nothing to do the decision to go without him.

CJB wrote:

Python wrote:

They definitely have an influence of sorts, although not too much has been revealed. Here's what's definitely known on the record.

GOLDENEYE - The St. Petersburg sequence being rescored by John Altman to utilize the Bond theme more traditionally.

I kinda like the way Serra's unused track utilises the Bond Theme, but overall the theatrical version was probably an improvement. Not a fan of the unreleased track, particularly the squeaky voice you first hear at 1:02: www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTFeynk02Qo#t=1m

Sounds vaguely Bollywood, I dunno.

Yeah, although I do like the deep Russian chants. It's also on this track. https://youtu.be/KMcUgh9GrOQ?t=3m6s

Really makes it sound like Bond is not in a friendly land.

Python wrote:

The reason has a lot to do with how Marc Forster had Arnold take a different approach by writing music based on the script and spending much more time on the material to have everything thought through. It definitely makes a difference and if Arnold is to return I do hope he learned something valuable from his experience in QOS. See? Looks like Forster got one thing right on QOS.

I think Forster got several things right. The only thing that was seriously wrong was the script.

I, too, hope that if Arnold returns, then his score will be more like what he did with QOS and be a little more experimental when he gets the chance to stretch his legs.

Python wrote:

I assume they tried to have Mendes consider Arnold as well but instead stuck to his guns on Newman, which might explain why they made a bogus story of Arnold not being available because of the Olympics. They didn't want it to look like their darling Arnold was snubbed by Mendes, even though Arnold said the Olympics had nothing to do the decision to go without him.

I don't think it was a bogus story. The score for the Opening Ceremony was twice as long as the score of a film, so Arnold would naturally need a lot more time to work on it. He signed on to do it long before he was approached about SKYFALL.

Python wrote:

CJB wrote:

I kinda like the way Serra's unused track utilises the Bond Theme, but overall the theatrical version was probably an improvement. Not a fan of the unreleased track, particularly the squeaky voice you first hear at 1:02: www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTFeynk02Qo#t=1m

Sounds vaguely Bollywood, I dunno.

Yeah, although I do like the deep Russian chants. It's also on this track. https://youtu.be/KMcUgh9GrOQ?t=3m6s

Really makes it sound like Bond is not in a friendly land.

Yes, the pseudo-Russian chanting is quite atmospheric and effective. It's rather odd then that Serra had a sudden lapse in geogprahy when composing the St Petersburg track.

He should've consulted Sarah Palin.

It's probably a sample.

Eric Serra wrote:

Some of them I program, some of them I play. I use a lot of percussion all the time. . . There is not rule: sometimes it is completely synthetic and completely programmed, sometimes it is played, sometimes it is looped. . . . I love to mix a lot of different things from totally different continents. I like, for example, to mix African percussion with symphony orchestra with synthesisers with vocals from ethnic records.

From John Burlingame's THE MUSIC OF JAMES BOND. Also from that book, it says that GOLDENEYE was all temp tracked with music from THE PROFESSIONAL, and the producers asked him to recreate that atmosphere within the context of Bond.

Here's a relevant David Arnold quote from an interview, that might interest Prisoner Monkeys.

Quote :

MT: Is there a often a clash? Like some directors are too controlling?

DA: Well, I'll give you for instance: at the end of Casino Royale when Vesper [Eva Green] was drowning, when she pushed herself away from Bond and actually kinda committed suicide by virtually killing herself, Martin [Campbell, the director of Casino Royale] wanted a very gentle, beautiful piece of music there. I always thought it should have been kind of tense and tearing and really vividly emotional and I almost had a great difficulty not making it like that because that's the way it felt it should have been. It just felt that it needed to be so fierce [in accordance to] what she was doing and representing not only the violence of her actions but [also] Bond's inability to save her. So we went over that one 2 or 3 times, cut different versions of it and we ended up kind of recording a gentler version of the more violent music; so it's virtually the same music but played in a little less violent way... But I'd still would have preferred it like I said, you know. It's a collaborative midair, it's not all about what I want all the time. It's not about what the director wants all the time anymore than it is about what the editor or the actors want. It's certainly the film as best as you can.

And that's true even in the initial stages of the production. Whenever we're presenting a new Bond film I am always trying to get less music, especially in the action sequences. The way these things are cut nowadays, it's all cut in Avid [professional video editing software] and presented as an almost finished thing because you can have 10 pre-visual effects, you can have fights. Whatever you can do, you represent it in the Avid and it's not like the past where you had to process it to a lab and get it process and then back to you to present it. Now it's done immediately and when you present these sequences to a studio, you want them to be as impressive as possible. So most of the times it's the action sequences that have music on all over them because it adds to that sense of excitement. Difference is that you're not watching the film from start to finish, you're just watching these bits when you're presenting a film, and you're merely watching a scene. So a lot of time you have music all over for that reason, to kind of help the selling of that moment and then it's very difficult to convince people that there shouldn't be music. I like to think about it in the overall scheme of the whole film rather than just looking at the action sequences by themselves and what happens is that there is a kind of a safety sake: "Can you write music all the way through it?" and then we try taking it out.

However, it's usually almost there from start to finish. I'd much rather that we had less and save it for when you need it, save it for when there's an emotional need for the music rather than just having it playing all the time. Like when there's a very noisy sequence, I'd love hearing the sounds of screaming tires or engines, or machine guns; all of these things can make a huge impact! And then you wipe them all away for the music to and then when it comes, it all wretches it up a little. So what I try to do is get less in but I think nowadays more is more, everything has to be very fast. And you can have an argument, a discussion about what you think it should or shouldn't be, but ultimately there's a direction you'll have to follow, this this and this, that that and that, louder and "I want music all the way through it" and in that case you either refuse and get replaced or do the best that you can. All you can do is represent your side of the argument as good as you can. You know that sometimes the director will prevail or you will, but you always have to know the reasons behind your arguments. However, everyone's different, every time it is a different process.

http://www.maintitles.net/features/interviews/david-arnold-2007/

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

I don't think it was a bogus story. The score for the Opening Ceremony was twice as long as the score of a film, so Arnold would naturally need a lot more time to work on it. He signed on to do it long before he was approached about SKYFALL.

Arnold was finished scoring the Olympics long before Thomas Newman moved to London in May-June to star working on SKYFALL.

Largo's Shark wrote:

It's probably a sample.

Eric Serra wrote:

Some of them I program, some of them I play. I use a lot of percussion all the time. . . There is not rule: sometimes it is completely synthetic and completely programmed, sometimes it is played, sometimes it is looped. . . . I love to mix a lot of different things from totally different continents. I like, for example, to mix African percussion with symphony orchestra with synthesisers with vocals from ethnic records.

From John Burlingame's THE MUSIC OF JAMES BOND. Also from that book, it says that GOLDENEYE was all temp tracked with music from THE PROFESSIONAL, and the producers asked him to recreate that atmosphere within the context of Bond.

Here's a relevant David Arnold quote from an interview, that might interest Prisoner Monkeys.

Quote :

MT: Is there a often a clash? Like some directors are too controlling?

DA: Well, I'll give you for instance: at the end of Casino Royale when Vesper [Eva Green] was drowning, when she pushed herself away from Bond and actually kinda committed suicide by virtually killing herself, Martin [Campbell, the director of Casino Royale] wanted a very gentle, beautiful piece of music there. I always thought it should have been kind of tense and tearing and really vividly emotional and I almost had a great difficulty not making it like that because that's the way it felt it should have been. It just felt that it needed to be so fierce [in accordance to] what she was doing and representing not only the violence of her actions but [also] Bond's inability to save her. So we went over that one 2 or 3 times, cut different versions of it and we ended up kind of recording a gentler version of the more violent music; so it's virtually the same music but played in a little less violent way... But I'd still would have preferred it like I said, you know. It's a collaborative midair, it's not all about what I want all the time. It's not about what the director wants all the time anymore than it is about what the editor or the actors want. It's certainly the film as best as you can.

And that's true even in the initial stages of the production. Whenever we're presenting a new Bond film I am always trying to get less music, especially in the action sequences. The way these things are cut nowadays, it's all cut in Avid [professional video editing software] and presented as an almost finished thing because you can have 10 pre-visual effects, you can have fights. Whatever you can do, you represent it in the Avid and it's not like the past where you had to process it to a lab and get it process and then back to you to present it. Now it's done immediately and when you present these sequences to a studio, you want them to be as impressive as possible. So most of the times it's the action sequences that have music on all over them because it adds to that sense of excitement. Difference is that you're not watching the film from start to finish, you're just watching these bits when you're presenting a film, and you're merely watching a scene. So a lot of time you have music all over for that reason, to kind of help the selling of that moment and then it's very difficult to convince people that there shouldn't be music. I like to think about it in the overall scheme of the whole film rather than just looking at the action sequences by themselves and what happens is that there is a kind of a safety sake: "Can you write music all the way through it?" and then we try taking it out.

However, it's usually almost there from start to finish. I'd much rather that we had less and save it for when you need it, save it for when there's an emotional need for the music rather than just having it playing all the time. Like when there's a very noisy sequence, I'd love hearing the sounds of screaming tires or engines, or machine guns; all of these things can make a huge impact! And then you wipe them all away for the music to and then when it comes, it all wretches it up a little. So what I try to do is get less in but I think nowadays more is more, everything has to be very fast. And you can have an argument, a discussion about what you think it should or shouldn't be, but ultimately there's a direction you'll have to follow, this this and this, that that and that, louder and "I want music all the way through it" and in that case you either refuse and get replaced or do the best that you can. All you can do is represent your side of the argument as good as you can. You know that sometimes the director will prevail or you will, but you always have to know the reasons behind your arguments. However, everyone's different, every time it is a different process.

http://www.maintitles.net/features/interviews/david-arnold-2007/

Interesting read, LS! :)

FieldsMan wrote:

I hope Arnold returns. Aside from a handful or tracks from Newman, it didn't grab me as much as 80% of the other Bond scores.

80%? Arnold only did 20% of the other Bond scores. ;)

Although QOS was imo Arnold's best Bond score to date I still feel there is too little variety in his approach and too little restraint in his orchestration. Newman was a welcome change of tone (simpler orchestration and not trying to ape Barry every other theme), but I agree it did not really produce a very memorable score.

So in summary lets try someone new please, I'd like to hear Dario Marianelli, Alberto Inglelais or maybe even Nicholas Hooper taking a shot.

Nicholas Hooper? Can you get any blander?

As long as Mendes is the director, Newman will return.

Gave this a listen last night. It's still pretty effective and makes me want to revisit the film (though I'm trying to not watch a Bond film all year, just to have them feel fresher when I see them again much later).

Makeshift Python wrote:

Gave this a listen last night. It's still pretty effective and makes me want to revisit the film (though I'm trying to not watch a Bond film all year, just to have them feel fresher when I see them again much later).

I had just the opposite experience last night. I switched off the Skyfall disc because I didn´t find access musically. Skyfall feels to me like there never was a Bond film that had such an ugly lack of personality in its music.

boldfinger wrote:

Makeshift Python wrote:

Gave this a listen last night. It's still pretty effective and makes me want to revisit the film (though I'm trying to not watch a Bond film all year, just to have them feel fresher when I see them again much later).

I had just the opposite experience last night. I switched off the Skyfall disc because I didn´t find access musically. Skyfall feels to me like there never was a Bond film that had such an ugly lack of personality in its music.

I can think of several.

Largo's Shark wrote:

boldfinger wrote:

Makeshift Python wrote:

Gave this a listen last night. It's still pretty effective and makes me want to revisit the film (though I'm trying to not watch a Bond film all year, just to have them feel fresher when I see them again much later).

I had just the opposite experience last night. I switched off the Skyfall disc because I didn´t find access musically. Skyfall feels to me like there never was a Bond film that had such an ugly lack of personality in its music.

I can think of several.

Just out of curiosity, which ones?

Ironically, I find Newman much more versatile than, say, David Arnold. And Arnold probably roams around thematically even more than Newman in SF. But still, Arnold somewhere between the admittedly messy lines provides me with a satisfying degree of aimed propulsion. I don´t get any such vibe from Newman´s score, it many times makes SF feel like some French or Scandinavian film trying to be a Bond film.

boldfinger wrote:

Just out of curiosity, which ones?

Arnold's 5 (with maybe the exception of QOS or DAD, depending on my mood), LTK, TSWLM, DN and OP.

Newman's score has plenty pizazz and drive in the hammered dulcimer textures, nervous jazz flute solos, quirky grooves, shimmering electronics and so on.

Largo's Shark wrote:

boldfinger wrote:

Just out of curiosity, which ones?

Arnold's 5 (with maybe the exception of QOS or DAD, depending on my mood), LTK, TSWLM, DN and OP.

Newman's score has plenty pizazz and drive in the hammered dulcimer textures, nervous jazz flute solos, quirky grooves, shimmering electronics and so on.

I tend to agree with your list while I don't find Newman's score particularly memorable in isolation, in context of the film I think it works very well, tonally there is much more variety in sound and mood in his score over Arnold's typical fare. It compliments the film rather than intrudes upon it.

In terms of aimed propulsion there is an urgency and impetus to Arnold's scoring, albeit a very derivative one, but sadly that is stretched to breaking point in many of his films by their massively overlong action sequences and overblown emotive exposition, too often he ends up delivering little short of white noise or syrup and precious little in between. For all it's sins and detractors I think QoS is, at the very least, well paced and measured and Arnold in turn ends up delivering a more controlled and memorable score.