WHY does Bond kill Prof. Dent, and WHY does Dr. No try to kill Bond outright?

1. Bond could have sweated it all out of Dent as the police did with Miss Taro, discovered Dr. No was indeed behind it all, and gone to Crab Key in force to at least arrest him on the nature of his island crimes and discovered his secret base and thus save the US rocket program, whilst finding the real reason for Strangways' murder.
2. If Dr. No or his organization had killed 007, it would have brought down the full suspicions of MI6 and thus ruined Dr. No's operations. They needed to either placate the representative of the British government (007) or kill him indirectly and make it look like an accident. This was done in the novel frequently to maintain Dr. No's secret plans.

Or is this just me watching the film for the billionth time? wink

Plenty of issues with the film, even though I enjoy it a lot. I definitely wish the film had stuck closer to the novel structurally. I might have kept Dent's murder in somehow, just because of how great Connery is in it.

Also, great to see you back.

Thanks!

The narrative has the overall Fleming flow which is what makes it work and keeps the pace driving along, but you get the sense of the whole team trying to feel their way through the picture because at that point there were no rules. And again, if any key production member had not been present, the whole thing would have collapsed like a house of cards. It is a testament that even when you start to question the plot as it is presented, that the thing still makes any sense.

Though I must say Tony Dawson does a remarkable Connery impression... laugh

hegottheboot wrote:: 2. If Dr. No or his organization had killed 007, it would have brought down the full suspicions of MI6 and thus ruined Dr. No's operations. They needed to either placate the representative of the British government (007) or kill him indirectly and make it look like an accident. This was done in the novel frequently to maintain Dr. No's secret plans.

Or is this just me watching the film for the billionth time?

This seems to happen quite a bit in 007 movies. Bond is just chilling or hanging out, he gets attacked, and then he finds some sort of clue on the attackers that leads to the rest of the plot. Would he have suspected that fake volcano crater in YOLT at all if a squad of helipcopters hadnt come out after him when he flew over? Would he have tracked down Kananga in LALD as easily if they hadnt sent that pimp car out to kill his driver?

KingCobra686 wrote:

hegottheboot wrote:: 2. If Dr. No or his organization had killed 007, it would have brought down the full suspicions of MI6 and thus ruined Dr. No's operations. They needed to either placate the representative of the British government (007) or kill him indirectly and make it look like an accident. This was done in the novel frequently to maintain Dr. No's secret plans.

Or is this just me watching the film for the billionth time?

This seems to happen quite a bit in 007 movies. Bond is just chilling or hanging out, he gets attacked, and then he finds some sort of clue on the attackers that leads to the rest of the plot. Would he have suspected that fake volcano crater in YOLT at all if a squad of helipcopters hadnt come out after him when he flew over? Would he have tracked down Kananga in LALD as easily if they hadnt sent that pimp car out to kill his driver?

I must admit one of my pet peeves of films in general is the overuse of coincidence to involve the hero rather than out and out deduction....Bond is guilty but it is a problem across the genre and perhaps in moderation is simply an acceptably graphic way for a film to leapfrog a more procedural and mundane discovery? A well written film (as Dr No is) supports and even encourages you to fill in the blanks to enable the ongoing 'suspension of disbelief'...to my mind YOLT and LALD are not as fortunate script wise and the holes are harder (though not impossible) to justify. Indeed the best way to enjoy YOLT imo is just to lie back and go with the flow it is the weakest of the 60's run yet in compensation perhaps the most iconic.

KingCobra686 wrote:

hegottheboot wrote:: 2. If Dr. No or his organization had killed 007, it would have brought down the full suspicions of MI6 and thus ruined Dr. No's operations. They needed to either placate the representative of the British government (007) or kill him indirectly and make it look like an accident. This was done in the novel frequently to maintain Dr. No's secret plans.

Or is this just me watching the film for the billionth time?

This seems to happen quite a bit in 007 movies. Bond is just chilling or hanging out, he gets attacked, and then he finds some sort of clue on the attackers that leads to the rest of the plot. Would he have suspected that fake volcano crater in YOLT at all if a squad of helipcopters hadnt come out after him when he flew over? Would he have tracked down Kananga in LALD as easily if they hadnt sent that pimp car out to kill his driver?

Given your examples, I can at least buy the YOLT one, given that he is half way through a mission, searching high and low for a place that could house a spacecraft. I believe he was about to turn around and head back to base when he was attacked. And at least it would have looked like some kind of crash had Bond been defeated. In LALD, the villains outright attack him at the start of the mission. One look at Charlie and they would have seen that he was shot at with a dart.

FieldsMan wrote:: Given your examples, I can at least buy the YOLT one, given that he is half way through a mission, searching high and low for a place that could house a spacecraft. I believe he was about to turn around and head back to base when he was attacked. And at least it would have looked like some kind of crash had Bond been defeated. In LALD, the villains outright attack him at the start of the mission. One look at Charlie and they would have seen that he was shot at with a dart.

I think the same thing happened in Goldeneye too when they were flying the small plane around and looking for that base that was hidden under the water. In both of these situations they only found the base because they were attacked when they got close to it.

Also in YOLT: Charles Gray's character gets killed when he meets with Bond, which leads Bond directly to the bad guys office when he follows the assassins. If they hadnt done that, it would have taken a lot longer to find that office and make that connection.

KingCobra686 wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:: Given your examples, I can at least buy the YOLT one, given that he is half way through a mission, searching high and low for a place that could house a spacecraft. I believe he was about to turn around and head back to base when he was attacked. And at least it would have looked like some kind of crash had Bond been defeated. In LALD, the villains outright attack him at the start of the mission. One look at Charlie and they would have seen that he was shot at with a dart.

I think the same thing happened in Goldeneye too when they were flying the small plane around and looking for that base that was hidden under the water. In both of these situations they only found the base because they were attacked when they got close to it.

Well to be fair, they were looking for a dish the size of a football field, not an underwater base. And they were attacked with a missile, so death seemed fairly certain. And if it didn't happen, a chopper with an assassin (Xenia) was there to confirm the kill. So, it's not a stretch to imagine that the villains did this too themselves. And the dish would have risen soon enough anyway, as they needed it to send a signal to Goldeneye to carry out the attack.

But I do understand what you're saying. Some films are more successful at executing this than others.

FieldsMan wrote:

KingCobra686 wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:: Given your examples, I can at least buy the YOLT one, given that he is half way through a mission, searching high and low for a place that could house a spacecraft. I believe he was about to turn around and head back to base when he was attacked. And at least it would have looked like some kind of crash had Bond been defeated. In LALD, the villains outright attack him at the start of the mission. One look at Charlie and they would have seen that he was shot at with a dart.

I think the same thing happened in Goldeneye too when they were flying the small plane around and looking for that base that was hidden under the water. In both of these situations they only found the base because they were attacked when they got close to it.

Well to be fair, they were looking for a dish the size of a football field, not an underwater base. And they were attacked with a missile, so death seemed fairly certain. And if it didn't happen, a chopper with an assassin (Xenia) was there to confirm the kill. So, it's not a stretch to imagine that the villains did this too themselves. And the dish would have risen soon enough anyway, as they needed it to send a signal to Goldeneye to carry out the attack.

But I do understand what you're saying. Some films are more successful at executing this than others.

Yeah the Goldeneye example is more reasonable than the others. It still fits into the category of "Bond hanging out until the bad guys come after him and leave a clue" that happens quite a bit in these movies.

Robust plots have never been much of a priority for this franchise though. Some of the movies like FRWL have plots that could stand outside of the franchise on their own, but for most of the movies the plot is just a rough vehicle to give 007 reasons to meet Bond Girls, explore exotic locales, fight henchmen, and create action.