Alan Moore: 'Today's adults' interest in superheroes is potentially "culturally catastrophic"'

I don't really see them separate from the industry set up by Spielberg in the early 1980s, of which I would consider "E.T." the first real instance. They are just the culmination, within very limited narrative parameters.

I still blame the Star Wars saga. Spielberg was just following Lucas' example. (Stevie refashioned ET to make it kid/mom/toy friendly.)

Even allowing for the long history of Disney, I think SW is the first film where merchandising massively exceeded the films' actual box office. From there on in, films became an incidental in the film industry and the logical progression was something like Transformers where the TV series and later the film was designed around an existing Japanese toy line. Brilliant - Hasbro didn't even have to stump up for the cost of tooling the toys.

That may have been the beginning of today's idiocy,  but until the turn of the century there was still room for literate American studio films aimed at adults. I don't know why they disappeared entirely.

Erica Ambler wrote:

I still blame the Star Wars saga. Spielberg was just following Lucas' example. (Stevie refashioned ET to make it kid/mom/toy friendly.)

Even allowing for the long history of Disney, I think SW is the first film where merchandising massively exceeded the films' actual box office. From there on in, films became an incidental in the film industry and the logical progression was something like Transformers where the TV series and later the film was designed around an existing Japanese toy line. Brilliant - Hasbro didn't even have to stump up for the cost of tooling the toys.

That may have been the beginning of today's idiocy,  but until the turn of the century there was still room for literate American studio films aimed at adults. I don't know why they disappeared entirely.

The main problem seems to be the lack of interest in producing the 30-40 million dollar features?

It seems like you either go mega-big (150+ million) or very small (less than 10 M).

Salomé wrote:

The main problem seems to be the lack of interest in producing the 30-40 million dollar features?

It seems like you either go mega-big (150+ million) or very small (less than 10 M).

As I said earlier, it's because studios now bow to corporate overlords who are only interested in making tentpole films, as they all want to make the next billion dollar grosser. No major studio does anything less anymore. That's all left to production companies having to work with others in order to fund something, which is why you see so many damned logos these days.

Prisoner Monkeys hasn't joined in yet? He nearly petitioned to have me banned back in 2005 on Mi6 because I didn't like BATMAN BEGINS.  

Anyway, here's a hilarious (and horrific) article on how one shithead professor is teaching film and media classes at the University of Baltimore with Marvel and zombies.
http://www.rawstory.com/2014/10/one-college-professors-crusade-to-teach-marvel-in-the-classroom/

Quote :

"While many classes use a dusty literary canon that offers less relevant connections for present-day students, my courses use zombies and superheroes – the common cultural currency we’re reading and viewing in the here and now – as a spur for thoughtful conversation. Academic texts don’t have to be old to be important and useful; the reverse is truer now than ever before."

"Batman Begins" is the only one of Nolan's three Batman films that works as a real feature.
By which I do not mean I deem it to be a great film.
But its structure is far superior to that of its two sequels.

Bitter Young Fuck Josh Trank attacks studio. So ungrateful ...

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/fantastic-four-director-implies-that-fox-is-responsible-for-bad-reviews-1201558644/

I bet the director's cut of Fucktastic Four would've been the Citizen Kane of our generation.

I am amused by the fact that these comic book franchises now feel the need to reboot the "origin" stories every 5-10  years now. You'd think it'd be easy enough rehashing and repackaging the same CGI-rich, character-poor spectacle again and again without resorting to an episode of "How Peter Porker Became Spiderguy" for the umpteenth time.  They could take a leaf out of James Bond's book and wait half a century.

Batman and Bond were the only reboots that made sense as the filmmakers wanted to tell the story of their beginnings as none of the previous films did that and it's cleaner than doing a contrived prequel. I don't think Bond really needed that, but Wilson had been wanting to do that story ever since Moore retired so whatever.

CJB wrote:

I bet the director's cut of Fucktastic Four would've been the Citizen Kane of our generation.

I am amused by the fact that these comic book franchises now feel the need to reboot the "origin" stories every 5-10  years now. You'd think it'd be easy enough rehashing and repackaging the same CGI-rich, character-poor spectacle again and again without resorting to an episode of "How Peter Porker Became Spiderguy" for the umpteenth time.  They could take a leaf out of James Bond's book and wait half a century.

Well in the case of Spiderman (and the fantastic four), the studios have little choice if they want to hold onto the property.
They have deals with Marvel that stipulate that the characters would return to the comic book company if they do not put out content every X years.
So unless the gravy train suddenly comes to a halt, I doubt they would release any of those properties from their clutches.

I think CJB's point was that retelling origin stories was completely unnecessary, given that both SPIDER-MAN and FANTASTIC FOUR already covered that ten years prior. It would be like if Roger Moore's first Bond film was just a remake of DR. NO. Fox and Sony could have simply taken another story from the comics to use as the basis for the relaunching with the new cast. That's what Marvel Studios did when they tried launching their version of THE INCREDIBLE HULK with Edward Norton.

What Python said. At this rate we'll get another Superman reboot (starring Shia Laboobs).

Makeshift Python wrote:

Batman and Bond were the only reboots that made sense as the filmmakers wanted to tell the story of their beginnings as none of the previous films did that and it's cleaner than doing a contrived prequel. I don't think Bond really needed that, but Wilson had been wanting to do that story ever since Moore retired so whatever.

This is certainly true imo, and there seems audiences have responded cautiously of late. Hopefully marvel will not feel the need to revist the Spidey origin a third time already (or fourth if you count Spiderman 3's revisionism).

I'm not sure I buy the idea that children's films should not be enjoyed by adults....as a Dr Who fan from way back its nice to have that ability to share certain heroes/stories. But I am concerned that there is a childlike simplicity to the universes, typical of children fiction, being employed too frequently or else to deal with issues that a more complex backdrop is essential (ie simple morality tales in a simple universe is fine imo, but if you stray too grey you need a more complex environment/world or you delude and desensitize etc). I am not a believer in cinema/tv having to great an influence on behaviour but there may be a good converse argument that says we can misuse media to distort perception...too much of anything is generally a bad thing and atm the money is really saturating one form of product at the expense of others maybe?

On one of these superhero flicks being bound to 'tank' sooner or later ... it may well be Fantastic Four. The reviews are awful, and Trank's tweet won't have helped.

CJB wrote:

I bet the director's cut of Fucktastic Four would've been the Citizen Kane of our generation.

I am amused by the fact that these comic book franchises now feel the need to reboot the "origin" stories every 5-10  years now. You'd think it'd be easy enough rehashing and repackaging the same CGI-rich, character-poor spectacle again and again without resorting to an episode of "How Peter Porker Became Spiderguy" for the umpteenth time.  They could take a leaf out of James Bond's book and wait half a century.

At this point, studios are just throwing shit at the wall and seeing if it sticks. If it doesn't stick, they make a "reboot" a few years later and see how many suckers will buy a ticket to see it again. Look at Hulk, Superman and Fantastic Four.

STAR WARS is no different. Every critic and fan hated the prequels, but they'll all be lining up to see J.J. Abraham's take on it. Now they're hiring "auteurs" (or, in other words, any director that can attract teenage audiences and generate big cash) to helm Disney's new spin-offs. I'm sure that after a decade they'll be producing turds like Marvel is now, but people will still line up to see them.

It's actually brilliant how these studios totally con people again and again. Whitey Bulger or Bernie Madoff couldn't do it any better.

Inside Out is probably the best movie of 2015 so far. If thinking that makes me a child, so be it.

Josh Stank

CJB wrote:

I bet the director's cut of Fucktastic Four would've been the Citizen Kane of our generation.

I am amused by the fact that these comic book franchises now feel the need to reboot the "origin" stories every 5-10  years now. You'd think it'd be easy enough rehashing and repackaging the same CGI-rich, character-poor spectacle again and again without resorting to an episode of "How Peter Porker Became Spiderguy" for the umpteenth time.  They could take a leaf out of James Bond's book and wait half a century.

You forget the comics would revisit the origin episode every about every three years, each time with a different artist.

Stamper wrote:

Josh Stank

Another Bitter Old Fuck weighs in:

Quote :

Meanwhile, while all of this nursery-school enabling is going on, we have the entire world veering towards ISIS–with barbaric decapitations and gay guys being thrown off roofs and stoned to death.  All the harsh realities of human history are erupting, and this young generation is going to be utterly unprepared to deal with it. The nation is eventually going to be endangered by the inability of several generations of young people to make political decisions about a real world that they do not understand. The primitive realities of human life are exploding out there!

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/28/camille_paglia_how_bill_clinton_is_like_bill_cosby/

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-fantastic-four-fallout-the-future-of-comic-book-franchises/

Grantland piece about how there are some mild signs that the audience's unquenchable thirst for these films might be waning somewhat.

Though I did chuckle at his notion of Affleck as a good director.

Salomé wrote:

Though I did chuckle at his notion of Affleck as a good director.  

Affleck's won a best picture Oscar, have you no respect? Seriously, how dare you challenge the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, Sabs? Here's their exhaustive verdicts on directorial brilliance:

Mel Gibson, Kevin Costner, Robert Redford, Warren Beatty - one best director Oscar each

Hitchcock aka Bitter Dead Fuck -  no best director Oscar, fucking amateur

Next you'll be telling me that actors aren't the sharpest cards in the pack...

Now that I've taken five to read the Mark Harris piece, it's not bad, though I've limited sympathy for 'adults' who dress up in children's costumes:

Quote :

In the history of comic-book movies, I hope Fantastic Four goes down as The Movie That Failed To Devour Miles Teller And Michael B. Jordan, the stars of Whiplash and Fruitvale Station, respectively, and two of the most talented American actors under 30 to emerge in the past few years. They jumped into the maw of this slavering beast because that is what the entire movie industry now tells young and middle-aged leading men they’re supposed to do. And the beast spat them out. Here’s my take: They’re lucky. They now have a choice to make. They can decide they want to wait five or 10 years, as Reynolds and Affleck did, for another invitation to the party, or they can go back to being, you know, actors. There are worse fates.

This actually made me go over his credentials as a director.

Gone Baby Gone: decent film (though nothing more)
The Town: a shameless Heat rip-off that was somehow celebrated as brilliant and original
Argo: self-congratulatory Hollywood bullshit

Erica Ambler wrote:

Now that I've taken five to read the Mark Harris piece, it's not bad, though I've limited sympathy for 'adults' who dress up in children's costumes:

Quote :

In the history of comic-book movies, I hope Fantastic Four goes down as The Movie That Failed To Devour Miles Teller And Michael B. Jordan, the stars of Whiplash and Fruitvale Station, respectively, and two of the most talented American actors under 30 to emerge in the past few years. They jumped into the maw of this slavering beast because that is what the entire movie industry now tells young and middle-aged leading men they’re supposed to do. And the beast spat them out. Here’s my take: They’re lucky. They now have a choice to make. They can decide they want to wait five or 10 years, as Reynolds and Affleck did, for another invitation to the party, or they can go back to being, you know, actors. There are worse fates.

I thought you might appreciate Teller's personality.

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/05/the_7_douchiest_quotes_from_fantastic_four_star_miles_tellers_esquire_profile_he_tells_you_the_highball_glass_is_modeled_after_his_cck/

Quote :

“You’ve just told him, by way of making conversation, that according to legend the champagne coupe in your hand is shaped like Marie Antoinette’s left breast, and he tells you the highball glass is modeled after his cock. Then he tells the waitress the same thing.”