FieldsMan's Initial Thoughts on SP

Seeing it in 3 hours!

Click bait.

Alright…. SPOILERS AHEAD


Hmmm…. I can kinda get where Ambler and G Section are coming from, but certainly not as bad as they're making out to be. Instead of a review as such - will see it again and add more thoughts - I'll make some dot points.

- OBERHAUSER! SERIOUSLY? So the character Donald Pleasance, Telly Savalas and Charles Gray played is supposed to be Oberhauser?! I can't buy that, and the movie hinges on that. Who's bright idea was that!? I think it was PM who suggested that Blofeld was using Oberhauser as a cover name - that was a much better idea! That said, it was great to see the cat and the scar, and Waltz does an excellent job (his last scene in particular reminded me of Zorin's final scene) but the entire idea that the greatest criminal organisation in the world is because of James Bond is ridiculous.

- Monica Bellucci is barely in it, but having her shoehorned in after the Rome scenes wouldn't have worked. All of her scenes are great - especially the scene at the house - except for her first scene with Bond. And the shot of her on the bed in stocking is great! And sorry, I have to compare her to Teri Hatcher, but as beautiful as Monica is, her acting wasn't all that. I'm glad we got her here - Mendes does a terrific job with her, but I'm glad Hatcher got Paris in the end… More seemed to be happening behind the eyes and all in all, a better Bond girl. Still Bellucci is up there with Craig's best Bond girls. Nice to know she doesn't get bumped off.

- Day of the Dead PTS!
Outstanding achievement. Very exciting and the opening shot is beautiful. The helicopter stunt work is great. Probably Craig's best PTS, but will wait to confirm that until another viewing.

- Great shakeup on the Q scene!

- Humour in the film is good!

- Best sequence is on the train - the scene with Lea and the following fight with Hinx. In fact, the fight with Hinx is probably the best scene in the film. Very brutal, and it's good to see Craig in a vulnerable position in a fight - he usually looks like he out-muscles them, but not this time. And we know he has to rely on his wits to succeed on this one. Which brings me to:

- The second disappointment I have with this is that Bond doesn't rely on his wits aside from two small moments (Hinx's death and at Blofeld's lair where he shoots the gas pipe). And I think that's why this still doesn't feel like Bond through and through. Yeah he has a gadget laden car, and a physically imposing henchman, and three girls, but it's not entirely James Bond without his signature moments. The action sequences all scream Daniel Craig's version of Bond - a 'see what sticks' approach. Him just going in head on without thinking. It's reckless, and certainly not Bond. He doesn't use his wits, and that takes away from the Bond experience.

- Newman's score. Bland and lazy. Out with him.

- I'm done with the whole identity crisis thing that's plaguing the Craig era. Move on. It was established in SF that MI6 was needed - no need to further explore that. If it's purely to get the wonderfully cast Fiennes doing something more than merely handing Bond his assignment, don't get Fiennes then. I'd rather not have him than have too much of him.

- I'm not sure what they're playing out with the ending we got, but if Bond 25 means a new Bond, great. If it means Craig is roped back in, I'm not looking forward to it.

- Beautiful cinematography! A fine follow up to Deakins' work. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the only Oscar nod SPECTRE gets.

- Great to see the gun barrel at the start! Titles sequence was very nice… Sam's song wasn't that bad, I suppose I kept thinking a bird was singing it, and it worked alongside the titles. It's down there at the bottom of the barrel though, with All Time High and Another Way to Die.

I'll probably add more, but these are my initial thoughts. Still had a fun time, but am a little disappointed.

How does everyone else feel about Oberhauser/Blofeld

It was indeed a welcome return for the gunbarrel. I almost cheered.

You'd think now all this identity crisis stuff is done with. I like to think bringing in Blofeld opens up a new chapter. Bond and SPECTRE going at it.

Really did like Fiennes in it.

As for the Oberhauser/Blofeld. Not sure. It is a stretch to think, as you say, that Bond was responsible for this organisation. Could've been worse. Could've had Blofeld be Bond's blood brother as opposed to adopted or whatever.

Yeah but it feels so contrived, weak, comical even - especially after Austin Powers… If Bond is behind the greatest criminal organisation forming then maybe he shouldn't come back.

Saw it again last night… Definitely got better on the second viewing. The action sequences didn't seem as dull as I remembered, especially the car chase. I previously suggested that Bond doesn't use his wits as much in this film, but I suppose shooting a bomb in a briefcase, a gas pipe, throwing alcohol at Hinx, then a candle to set it alight are all moments of Bond using his wits, but that's three moments in the longest Bond film - I can count three just in the PTSs of some films!

The PTS still impresses, and very glad the CGI work improved in the final product.

Is that Mr Fookatook (sp?) from CR in the SPECTRE meeting?? I think it is!!!

I love Hinx's theme that pops up twice - when he's introduced and I think when he crashes through the windscreen of the car.

Still think it's ridiculously self conscious, as if the Craig films (save SF) are embarrassed to be Bond films… Still think there is room for a retcon job in having Oberhauser pose as Blofeld because Blofeld instructed him too - I'd believe that as Oberhauser is completely mental, and I do think Waltz does do a good job with that.

There is so much potential for Madeleine Swann, but they didn't know where to take her, and so after her first scene, it's downhill. Lucia is a much more intriguing Bond film, and Belucci wasn't as average as I first thought - she gets the job done, and has an incredible presence, but still glad she ended up in this, and we had Teri Hatcher in TND. Also, I still find her first scene with Bond clunky. I think if it had the pace of their next scenes, it would have helped… The scene where Bond seduces her is great, interesting that Monica gets a chance to slap Bond, just like Paris!

The plot holes become more apparent, and the Blofeld twist I'm still not sold on. But it's good to have the formula back, that's for sure!

FieldsMan wrote:

Is that Mr Fookatook (sp?) from CR in the SPECTRE meeting?? I think it is!!!

I noticed that as well. I'm fairly certain it is either him or his brother (who had a brief appearance in the Skyfall casino scene).

FieldsMan wrote:

I previously suggested that Bond doesn't use his wits as much in this film, but I suppose shooting a bomb in a briefcase.

I don't think he realized he was shooting the bomb. When he was sniping each of the men in the room, the last guy ducked and hid behind the briefcase, which Bond decided to shoot through to get his target.

Hmmm… Will have to double check that when I watch it again.

I paid attention to see what Bond was trying to achieve during that hit job when I watched it the second time and that's how it played off to me. Also, if he just wanted to kill them all he could have done was just shoot the briefcase bomb. He probably thought it was just a briefcase full of money used to pay off the bombers to their thing.

Quote :

- The second disappointment I have with this is that Bond doesn't rely on his wits aside from two small moments (Hinx's death and at Blofeld's lair where he shoots the gas pipe). And I think that's why this still doesn't feel like Bond through and through. Yeah he has a gadget laden car, and a physically imposing henchman, and three girls, but it's not entirely James Bond without his signature moments. The action sequences all scream Daniel Craig's version of Bond - a 'see what sticks' approach. Him just going in head on without thinking. It's reckless, and certainly not Bond. He doesn't use his wits, and that takes away from the Bond experience.

I disagree on the bolded points. I thought there was a great moment of characterisation in the PTS where Bond nonchalantly walks along the edge of the buildings as if it were a footpath. You also have Checkhov's Safety Net in the finale, which I can't say occurred to me until he jumped off the ledge. That coupled with tying the rope to the kegs in the train I thought were clear examples of Bond 'thinking' and being resourceful.

Also remind me but in what action scenes did Bond initiate the confrontation? How is he supposed to think ahead of unanticipated events?

Vesper wrote:

Quote :

- The second disappointment I have with this is that Bond doesn't rely on his wits aside from two small moments (Hinx's death and at Blofeld's lair where he shoots the gas pipe). And I think that's why this still doesn't feel like Bond through and through. Yeah he has a gadget laden car, and a physically imposing henchman, and three girls, but it's not entirely James Bond without his signature moments. The action sequences all scream Daniel Craig's version of Bond - a 'see what sticks' approach. Him just going in head on without thinking. It's reckless, and certainly not Bond. He doesn't use his wits, and that takes away from the Bond experience.

I disagree on the bolded points. I thought there was a great moment of characterisation in the PTS where Bond nonchalantly walks along the edge of the buildings as if it were a footpath. You also have Checkhov's Safety Net in the finale, which I can't say occurred to me until he jumped off the ledge. That coupled with tying the rope to the kegs in the train I thought were clear examples of Bond 'thinking' and being resourceful.

Also remind me but in what action scenes did Bond initiate the confrontation? How is he supposed to think ahead of unanticipated events?

The moment you pointed out in the PTS is fine, as is the rope/kegs to dispatch Hinx. I was referring to Bond crashing his plane into the back of Hinx's car, almost injuring Madeleine, and Bond speeding up against the old guy in the car during the Rome chase to name two instances.

I do like Craig's expression on his face during that plane chase when things go awry and he's probably thinking of how dumb the stunt was. What the scene reminded me most was COMMANDO where Ahnuld tries to rescue his daughter by having his jeep (which had the breaks cut off) maneuver down a hill towards the bad guys.

Makeshift Python wrote:

I do like Craig's expression on his face during that plane chase when things go awry and he's probably thinking of how dumb the stunt was. What the scene reminded me most was COMMANDO where Ahnuld tries to rescue his daughter by having his jeep (which had the breaks cut off) maneuver down a hill towards the bad guys.

Yes! I knew it was familar.

Just back from a third - and possibly final - viewing at the cinema. It's fun, and the PTS is definitely up there with the best of the series.

I don't buy the Bond/Madeleine 'love' story, and if I don't, I can like Lea's character better. Plus she has so much charm and is hot as hell that you can't not like her - despite some childish outbursts here and there. Hopefully they don't force in some kind of continuous romance with her/a Tracy-like death in Bond 25. Just move on/ignore it.

I think a lot of me liking this film comes down to how Bond 25 goes. I'd still prefer a retcon job with the Oberhauser/Blofeld situation, and I'm hoping Madeleine stays solely in SPECTRE. If both these things happen, I'd enjoy SP a whole lot more. In turn, I think having linked Le Chiffre and Mr White to SPECTRE helps me appreciate CR more, because it all feels a part of the world (I watched CR with my bro before watching SP again tonight and it contextualises it). I'll see how it fairs when I watch all the Bond films again next year.

The majority of my previous points stand. I kept forgetting to add, though, that I think something should have happened with that metal point on the table in the SP meeting - either Hinx used it to kill the other guy, or when Bond threw the security guard off the second level, he landed on the spike. Still, something trivial in the grand scheme of things.

Oh and the constant intercutting with M, Moneypenny, etc. in London slows the film down, IMO. While they all do a good job, just give them a couple of scenes like the good old days, and maybe expand on the secondary Bond girl's scene. Solange, Fields and Lucia all have no more than 10 mins in the film. Severine - a main Bond girl - has a little over that. Time for more Bond girl screen time, I say.

Spectre's joined my long list of Bond films best ignored. I think the thing I find most annoying about it is that it's cheapened Skyfall.

There's still plenty to enjoy in it though that I don't think I could ignore it. The cinematography, Monica Belucci, Hinx and the PTS are all excellent, along with a few little nuggets along the way.

Bottom 7 Bond film, though.

FieldsMan wrote:

Oh and the constant intercutting with M, Moneypenny, etc. in London slows the film down, IMO.

I agree with this. Yet another angle of the film that needed to be severely sliced and diced.

When all else fails, I think the film that started it all - Dr No - is the model to follow, structurally. A taut, focused thriller about Bond progressively piecing the plot together with an occasional car chase and shag to keep things interesting. The parallel Moneypenny/Voldermort machinations in SP were a dull distraction from Bond's already wafer-thin storyline.

FieldsMan wrote:

So the character Donald Pleasance, Telly Savalas and Charles Gray played is supposed to be Oberhauser?! I can't buy that...

Good. Don't. I never made that assumption, because like Bond himself, ESB is a rebooted character.

If the first series' Blofeld was Oberhauser all along, then he wouldn't have found it necessary to introduce himself to Bond in YOLT.

Erica Ambler wrote:

Spectre's joined my long list of Bond films best ignored. I think the thing I find most annoying about it is that it's cheapened Skyfall.

I've started looking at them all as standalone films, no matter how much EON forces "continuity."

The only two films with any continuity are DR. NO and FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE. They also happen to be the two best films, followed by THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, THUNDERBALL and SKYFALL.

I'd throw SPECTRE on the level of KWANTEM OF SOLSTICE, TOMORROW NEVER DIES or A VIEW TO A KILL. They're good for a random viewing every decade or so when you've got plenty of alcohol on hand.

AMC Hornet wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

So the character Donald Pleasance, Telly Savalas and Charles Gray played is supposed to be Oberhauser?! I can't buy that...

Good. Don't. I never made that assumption, because like Bond himself, ESB is a rebooted character.

If the first series' Blofeld was Oberhauser all along, then he wouldn't have found it necessary to introduce himself to Bond in YOLT.

Well, if that's the case, the events of OHMSS would have played out differently, too, as Savalas' Blofeld should have recognised him.

Each Blofeld actor has had a very different take on the character, and that only continues with Waltz's Blofeld.

I can imagine Gray's Blofeld being Bond's long-lost eccentric uncle. Missed opportunity by the writers of DAF.

"NO, JAMES, (HOHHHH - KHOOOO) I AM YOUR FATHER!"

Another missed opportunity?