Final Act: Die Another Day vs SPECTRE

Curious to know what people think is a better final act in these two Bond films. They are the fourth films of Brosnan and Craig respectively, feature a grander story and are considered to be weaker portions of the Bond films.

It's entirely up to you what constitutes the final act of DAD and SP, but I'd say from when Bond and Jinx board the Antonov until the end in DAD, and the London segment of SP.

Personally, I think the end of DAD is better. It's more efficient and snappier, Brosnan is still focused and not approaching the role in a half-assed fashion, and it's still fun in an outrageous way. SP's final act drags and takes itself too seriously to be fun. Not to mention the film could have been wrapped up on Morocco. The same argument could be made for DAD finishing at the Ice Palace (as Purvis and Wade originally intended), but I can see some sense in Graves wanting to get closer to the action.

Against my own expectation I also plumbed for DAD, Robocop suit aside the action really brings things together and the disintegrating plane is a terrific concept, it may be that it is so much a relief after the dreadful stuff in the Ice hotel but it ensures that the film ends above its lowest point etc....also Rosamund Pike in 'proper' villain gear at last yummy err I digress.... By contrast SP denouement is really the literal lowest ebb of that film where contrivance and self importance really overwhelm the plot, its also a dull sequence after a far more tense one, the best part probably being M Vs C.... Daniel Craig may be notable for being the only actor that I think could make me lose all interest in the actual James Bond role :/ M, Q, Tanner and Moneypenny actually make for far more engaging presences here.

The only truly dreadful scene in the Ice Palace is the laser scene with Mr Kil. Everything else I can roll with, and I find much more palatable than the Antonov stuff.

Regarding SP, it does become less about Bond and more about the MI6 team. Perhaps it is down to Craig, or perhaps it's the writing, but either way I'm personally disengaged throughout. I don't appreciate M involved in combat despite a solid scene leading to it, and I don't enjoy Q, Moneypenny and Tanner's involvement since it's not warranted.

FieldsMan wrote:

The only truly dreadful scene in the Ice Palace is the laser scene with Mr Kil. Everything else I can roll with, and I find much more palatable than the Antonov stuff.

Regarding SP, it does become less about Bond and more about the MI6 team. Perhaps it is down to Craig, or perhaps it's the writing, but either way I'm personally disengaged throughout. I don't appreciate M involved in combat despite a solid scene leading to it, and I don't enjoy Q, Moneypenny and Tanner's involvement since it's not warranted.

It may not be appropriate but it is warranted when your Bond is as dull as dishwater even by his usual bored and bland standards.

I have a lot of problems with the ice Palace sequence.. after a spirited start to the movie it pretty much derails the moment we see snow - beit the aforementioned laser battle, the bewilderingly dull straight line laser evasion, the inept para surfing cgi fest and that staggeringly unexciting and anticlimactic car ballet (as it really doesn't warrant the use of the term 'car chase'). Even worse to round it all off Jinx lives..... she's better in the finale too mind......

I'd go with DAD.

SPECTRE was over for me after the torture scene.

DAD.

Imagine there being this much of a consensus over DAD on the old forum

Hilly KCMG wrote:

DAD.

Imagine there being this much of a consensus over DAD on the old forum

Indeed.

lachesis wrote:

It may not be appropriate but it is warranted when your Bond is as dull as dishwater even by his usual bored and bland standards.

Touche.

lachesis wrote:

I have a lot of problems with the ice Palace sequence.. after a spirited start to the movie it pretty much derails the moment we see snow - beit the aforementioned laser battle, the bewilderingly dull straight line laser evasion, the inept para surfing cgi fest and that staggeringly unexciting and anticlimactic car ballet (as it really doesn't warrant the use of the term 'car chase'). Even worse to round it all off Jinx lives..... she's better in the finale too mind......

Personally, I like Lamont's production design which elevates this portion of the film. The car chase is satisfactory in my opinion. There's a hint of danger in Zao's car as well as the ice grounding which makes it a little more exciting. I'd label the SP car chase with the 'car ballet' tag over this one. Not to mention there's great moments between Frost and Bond sprinkled throughout (her reveal as the mole, "sex for dinner" scene, their love scene) which I like. I also like Bond snooping around the diamond mine after the demonstration.

I'll give you the 'Jinx lives' notion, and the idea that she's better in the finale, but I actually quite like her when she comes to after almost drowning - the 'what took you so long' and their exchange was tender.

Every act of DAD was better than SPECTRE. SP commits the sin of being both boring and self-important. Whatever one thinks of MR or DAD, I'm not sure they've ever been accused of being boring.

You can say that MR and DAD aim too high, but I'd rather have a film aim too high and miss instead of aim too low and find its target.

DAD, even with the Nintendo-looking plane, the white Asian's electro-tailoring, and the Jinx-Frost catfight. That's how bad SP's final act was.

DAD's final act at least had the [hammy] if delicious lines: "Looks like your friends have bailed!"

/"Time to face gravity!"

Also, nice use of the Bond theme towards the end of the Antonov scene. Almost a shame Brosnan's tenure ended in that manner. Imagine if Moore's final act had been Moonraker. Last seen hurtling into orbit one more time.

Hilly KCMG wrote:

DAD's final act at least had the [hammy] if delicious lines: "Looks like your friends have bailed!"

/"Time to face gravity!"

Also, nice use of the Bond theme towards the end of the Antonov scene. Almost a shame Brosnan's tenure ended in that manner. Imagine if Moore's final act had been Moonraker. Last seen hurtling into orbit one more time.

I'm a fan of the 'I can read your every move' / 'read this, bitch' lines, myself.

At least Bond ends with a girl in bed. Bond wouldn't know what to do with one of those nowadays.

EDIT: Looks like SP finally got a vote... Wonder who from, and why?

FieldsMan wrote:

At least Bond ends with a girl in bed. Bond wouldn't know what to do with one of those nowadays.

I was thinking about that today. About how depressing the Bond Girls have been in the Craig era. Let's contrast and compare lead Bond Girls:

Moore: Fortune teller, Embassy Assistant (?) Russian Spy, American Spy, underwater archaeologist, international jewel smuggler, geologist

Dalton: cello player, ex-cia pilot

Brosnan: computer programmer, Chinese spy, nuclear scientist, NSA operative

All seven of Moore's lead Bond Girls end up in bed with him at the end. Same with Dalton and I guess Brosnan if you count Elektra as the villain and not the lead bond girl.

Conversely, Craig's Bond Girls mostly end up dead...or rejecting him: Vesper (suicide); Solange (murdered), Camille (rejects Bond), Strawberry (murdered), Severine (murdered), Lucia (lives, but is a depressed, alcoholic widow), Madeline (lives, but is a resentful, alcoholic daughter of a villain).

By the way, I had to look up on IMDB the page for SPECTRE, because I couldn't remember the names of the characters from SPECTRE, but had no problem recalling any of the other character names going all the way back to LALD. That's how unremarkable SPECTRE is.

Only one Bond Girl dies because of her association with Brosnan's Bond (Paris), although 3 die because of Moore's Bond (Andrea, Corrine and Lisl). No Bond Girl died during Dalton's tenure, which is odd considering the subject matter of LTK.

Point is there's not much variety in the Craig cannon. It's dour and depressing. No Plenty's....no Pussy's...no Chew Me's or Onatopps. Not even a Christmas amongst the offerings.

It seems Lucia and Madeleine exist solely as a knee-jerk reaction to the idea that Craig era Bond girls haven't survived or don't end up with him. I don't for a second believe that Lucia survived after Bond left her. SPECTRE (in this incarnation particularly) is intent on tying up loose ends, as demonstrated with picking an assassin to kill the Pale King, so leaving Lucia to her own devices seems a little artificial.

And they fucked Madeleine up harder than Craig Bond's blue balls. Severine remains the sole highlight of his era in the women department.

Hilly KCMG wrote:

DAD's final act at least had the [hammy] if delicious lines: "Looks like your friends have bailed!"

That just sparked a memory - wasn't there a troll on Old MI6 called Hammy? Struggling to remember.

EDIT: Or am I thinking of Scashy?

FieldsMan wrote:

Severine remains the sole highlight of his era in the women department.

Solange's tits though.

You win.

That kid chasing after the mounted tits is gonna grow up just fine.

Alright, who voted for SP and is too embarrassed to admit it?

Even though it makes me cringe
Even though it is woefully inadequate
Even though I hate Jinx in every way
Even though the staging in the final airplane fight is pitiful for a final battle
Even though it at times feels like a mediocre video game from that era

It's DAD 100%. As problematic as it is-the climax works and the story setup is completed to some kind of satisfaction instead of being slipshod and halfassed.
Even though I abhor the slo-mo usage in the film I'd argue for example the painfully underused Col. Moon character is better than the entirety of SPECTRE.

To SPECTRE I'd say Jinx's final line to Miranda.

I voted for SP, though I wouldn't call winning by default a victory because I find DAD way too loud and obnoxious, like a six year old after drinking a two liter bottle of Mountain Dew. That said, the biggest glaring error for SP is not having Hinx for Bond to fight in the ruins of MI6. I knew the climax was missing something and once that occurred it has never gotten out of my head.

Makeshift Python wrote:

I voted for SP, though I wouldn't call winning by default a victory because I find DAD way too loud and obnoxious, like a six year old after drinking a two liter bottle of Mountain Dew. That said, the biggest glaring error for SP is not having Hinx for Bond to fight in the ruins of MI6. I knew the climax was missing something and once that occurred it has never gotten out of my head.

Haha. There's a lot more missing to the SPECTRE climax than just Hinx. Try logic. Try dramatic tension. Try improving characterisation. Try original ideas. Try a palatable tone. Try better music.

Besides, the last thing we need is for Hinx to reappear and extend the duration of that cinematic calamity.

DAD wins alone for the excellence in sound design and mixing. If more people watched it in a proper home theater environment there would be less complaining because even when it gets into ultra cringe inducing stupidity at least the sound mix is great.
I saw it three times in it's theatrical run once in DTS and twice in Dolby. It does much more with the surround rear channel mixing that was in vogue at the time and while perhaps not quite as fun as the GE and TND mixes is better than the TWINE one.

SPECTRE sounded terrible as all modern films do. Plus almost every chain theater here in the US is absolute automated garbage.

I’m gunna be that guy and dig up an old thread. Tried to watch SPECTRE for the second time ever this evening. What a steaming pile of shit. Hands down DAD. Okay first 45 minutes, the great scene with Raoul. Yeah the rest is dodgy but you can’t say it doesn’t keep your attention. SPECTRE is a snooze fest.

I think it has to do with tone. Because DAD aims to be fun, it invites you along for the ride. SP demands the audience take it seriously but its half-assed script would challenge anyone to raise their eyebrows higher than Roger Moore or Eunice Gayson.

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

There's a lot more missing to the SPECTRE climax than just Hinx. Try logic. Try dramatic tension. Try improving characterisation. Try original ideas. Try a palatable tone. Try better music.

Well, on that criteria, DAD loses for me. But even before considering those factors, DAD has Jinx, and that's the kiss of death for me.

I'd rather sit through the Jinx movie than ever see SP again. And I can't stand Jinx. At all. That character made me unable to even think of Halle Berry in anything for years afterwards.