Are people too sensitive when it comes to Bond hooking up with Severine?

A lot of people criticize it because Severine has a past as a sex traffic slave, and how could Bond be so insensitive… but I think that she is a strong female character and she is fully capable of sleeping who she wants to, so why feel so sorry for her, when it's her choice? I mean give her some credit.

Unless I am wrong?

It's offensive because he didn't even pay her afterwards, the cheap bastard.

No, people are too sensitive because Severine is seventeen years younger than Craig-Bond.

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

No, people are too sensitive because Severine is seventeen years younger than Craig-Bond.

Andrea offered herself to Bond in the same circumstances. Do we criticize MooreBond for taking up Scaramanga's mistress as part of the bargain (with the same consequences)?

Andrea makes a choice and has lost all sense of hope that she makes herself a physical offering to Bond. She is a tragic character.

Severine is underwritten yet played very well. We get her backstory and then suddenly there's a sex scene for no reason which is done merely as a half assed attempt to give her and Bond some kind of relationship since the writers don't want to admit her uselessness and soon to be random execution. It thus elicits the correct feelings of disgust in the audience because of knowing her backstory. This Bond coming onto her in such a way has all the inhumanity of the world she had to claw her way out of. It literally made me have a reaction of disgust in the theater seeing the damn thing opening week.

For all we know Andrea was a child sex slave too.

By the time of Skyfall Severine was Silva's mistress. Perhaps he bought her, or won her, or maybe even "rescued" her. Same could be said of Andrea.

Severine was supposed to reel Bond in, but saw in him a possible escape from Silva, and was willing to do anything for him if it worked out. She made the same down payment Andrea made.

So either MooreBond's behaviour was just as inexcusable or CraigBond's behaviour was just as excusable.

"Severine is underwritten yet played very well. We get her backstory and then suddenly there's a sex scene for no reason which is done merely as a half assed attempt to give her and Bond some kind of relationship since the writers don't want to admit her uselessness and soon to be random execution."


I think that sums it up quite well and it was just lazy writing which created a minor tacky scene. I didn't feel disgust or anything like that more just felt like an eye rolling Hollywood type sex scene.

Even though Skyfall is often regarded as one of the very best Bond movies, I always thought it was good but not great. I feel that a lot of the first half is mediocre, and it's not until the main villain is introduced that it gets really good, and makes up for it. So good beacuse of the last half mostly, but a weaker first half I think.

AMC Hornet wrote:

For all we know Andrea was a child sex slave too.

By the time of Skyfall Severine was Silva's mistress. Perhaps he bought her, or won her, or maybe even "rescued" her. Same could be said of Andrea.

Severine was supposed to reel Bond in, but saw in him a possible escape from Silva, and was willing to do anything for him if it worked out. She made the same down payment Andrea made.

So either MooreBond's behaviour was just as inexcusable or CraigBond's behaviour was just as excusable.

That could be since we don't know anything of Andrea's past. However, I would point out that Bond has an agenda and coldly responds to Andrea's advances for the Solex first and foremost. If he gets to enjoy the tryst as well...the things I do for England. Also Andrea does seem to use her charms to her advantage and is then seen immediately making a play for the Solex in order to keep her bargain with Bond.
The Andrea reveal and plot is so brilliantly complex and reeks of FRWL-isms that it seems to be a complete invention by Maibaum in his rewrite. It's another of the inspired bits in the film that could have been so much more had they not just rushed in to appease UA/Transamerica wanting another Bond so fast.
On top of this you have Bond going through the motions and seemingly agreeing to be an assassin for hire in a way and playing the role of mirror to Scaramanga. All the while he's extremely pissed for seemingly being a hunted man and having to go off to find the mysterious TMWTGG-now only to discover it's all been a ruse and he's been had.

With Severine you have.....uhhhh.....(grasps at straws) she's the girl with a tragic past on the villain's side halfway through...insert jarringly random sex scene....and then suddenly gets axed for no reason and everyone forgets about her.

For me Severine was just the Bond girl 'sacrificial lamb' trope happening again, even in the 21st century ... actually to date, SPECTRE is the only Craig in which it hasn't (there was Solange in CR and Fields in QOS).

ironpony wrote:

Even though Skyfall is often regarded as one of the very best Bond movies, I always thought it was good but not great.  I feel that a lot of the first half is mediocre, and it's not until the main villain is introduced that it gets really good, and makes up for it.  So good beacuse of the last half mostly, but a weaker first half I think.

Somewhat agree. The first 30-40 minutes felt like QOS Mk. II to me.

Oh that's interesting. I found that the first 30 minutes about felt more like Die Another Day, because you have Bond coming back after missing in action, and having to retrain, but also, MI6 is underground again like DAD as well.

How dast you compare Skyfall to Die Another Day! Everyone but you and I know that DAD was garbage; the first half was fine, when Bond was slumming about looking like Robinson Crusoe, but the film "falls apart" once Bond gets to Iceland!
PS: Thanks for your input, Pony. I bet your post will garner plenty of responses like mine, only more sincere in their intent. Nice to know I'm not alone in my corner.

Skyfall is a much more mature Bond film that can appeal to non Bond fans as much as Bond fanatics. The direction is superb too but I prefer DAD and find it much more enjoyable on repeat viewings. There isn't a single boring moment in Die Another Day for me, it's almost non stop fun action and manages to have a strong enough plot to go along with it. The hovercraft chase is excellent, saved by the bell then turns rather dark with his capture. That line where he points at M and says 'what do you think'  is very powerful. Jinx is super cool and gorgeous, perhaps a little underwritten but another case of her presence making up for it.  London Calling...Graves is so smug and sickening even to look at that makes him a great villain and that sword fight is one of the best in any movie, man that is intense. love that car, the chase and rescue of Jinx in the castle.The clinic scene, the dive,it's just a great anniversary piece for me with a blend of previous Bond films has a bit of a Roger Moore feel at times and that's always a good thing i just can't think of a single boring moment in DAD and it's one I can watch over and over

your momma!

On behalf of Ironpony and myself, welcome to our corner, Sarai.

That's the great thing about the Bond movies my favs just keep changing and like just about the entire series. I just watch them all as one long movie.
love the avatar btw as I am digging the Rog more and more everyday
first time I saw Live and Let Die, hated it and bottom of my list and now one of my favs

I rate Die Another Day and Skyfall alongside each other: both middle of the road. Skyfall is perhaps stronger on the whole but DAD gets other things right, such as casting an actor worthy of the lead role and superior music.

To the topic at hand, those who criticise Bond's advances haven't understood the nuances. As articulated by AMC:

AMC Hornet wrote:

Severine was supposed to reel Bond in, but saw in him a possible escape from Silva, and was willing to do anything for him if it worked out. She made the same down payment Andrea made.

This is bang on. Severine realised Bond was here way out and hoped Bond would survive the ambush, hence they little vignette on the chimera of her, in her robe, looking out the window as champagne chilled in an ice bucket. She was charmed by him before he boarded the chimera.

Perhaps, if there's any failing in this, is that Craig is about as charming as a brick wall, which is why this may not have landed for some audiences.

And as an aside, just because someone has worked as a sex slave, it doesn't mean they're going to cease having sex with the people they want to sleep with.

I prefer DAD for many reasons but a major one is that Bond is so much tougher psychologically. He just gets out of that prison camp after after extended brutal torture, is traded in a deal he doesn't want then ends up mistrusted by M and M16. Right away he plots his escape, hits the hotel and is back in the suit, armed and ready to go about his job in all ways.
no brooding, no whining just back to being Bond from the gun to the car to the women in matter of days

While no brooding and whining is generally good, I thought it was jarring that the whole 14 months of captivity and torture aspect was forgotten in about five seconds. Theoretically, Bond being monstered in a North Korean gulag is one of the darker chapters of the whole series and yet it takes place in the same film which has invisible cars, bad CGI, and about 30 dick jokes.

I think it lends Bond a different type of cynicism that Brosnan maintains throughout the entire film but it certainly could have dug a bit deeper in exploring the shadow of such imprisonment on one's psyche. I imagine that was the original vision of Purvis and Wade's script before Tamahori amped up the sci-fi elements and crass dialogue.

I recall revisiting DAD after SP's release. I found I hadn't enjoyed that film as much as I did then since I was a kid. There's something refreshing, and dare I say, mature* about Bond's professional determination instead of taking everything so personally.

*Yes, even in a film with a robosuit.

The 'personal' angle has pretty much been a thing since LTK. It could do with a rest now.

It's difficult to guess at for me how much of an impact the torture scenes were meant to have on the viewer and they did play it during the opening theme. I really felt it but wasn't sure how much others did by playing it that way.
I didn't feel it to be jarring but I can see others would. To me it just felt like what a character like Bond would do next and I'm not sure how they could really show a damaged psyche without changing the whole nature of Bond films. His next steps did involve more women, alcohol and a causal attitude towards death that he usually displays and that is very Bond. Are those things how he copes with it all or is he just that cold whether being tortured himself or killing another in cold blood as he did all the way back in Dr No?
most of what he does in life would mess normal people up forever but don't seem to with Bond
I never know if he is a bit psychopathic and unfeeling which would be good for that job and or how much of the pain is hidden
so in that sense it all works for me and is the same old 007...keeps you guessing, wondering at the man and his mind

Blunt Instrument wrote:

The 'personal' angle has pretty much been a thing since LTK. It could do with a rest now.

That's an interesting observation, and I think there's much truth to it. The exception, however, might be TND.

Sarai wrote:

It's difficult to guess at for me how much of an impact the torture scenes were meant to have on the viewer and they did play it during the opening theme. I really felt it but wasn't sure how much others did by playing it that way.
I didn't feel it to be jarring but I can see others would. To me it just felt like what a character like Bond would do next and I'm not sure how they could really show a damaged psyche without changing the whole nature of Bond films. His next steps did involve more women, alcohol and a causal attitude towards death that he usually displays and that is very Bond. Are those things how he copes with it all or is he just that cold whether being tortured himself or killing another in cold blood as he did all the way back in Dr No?
most of what he does in life would mess normal people up forever but don't seem to with Bond
I never know if he is a bit psychopathic and unfeeling which would be good for that job and or how much of the pain is hidden
so in that sense it all works for me and is the same old 007...keeps you guessing, wondering at the man and his mind

To do what Bond does, he has to be something of a psycho or at least a socio. But he's our psycho, and we love him.