No Time To Die (spoilery reviews thread)

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

That’s an interesting take. And also, the relatively compressed running times for each film. Each scene needed to be crafted to fit in all the elements to give audiences that Bondian shot of thrill and escapism.

Indeed, a properly crafted Bond film need not be longer than 100-110 minutes give or take.

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Nowadays, it’s become self indulgent where entire scenes forget they’re in a Bond film to satisfy the politics or awards-prestige-cravings of the film makers. Case in point, some of the stuff in the opening scene of NTTD felt so generic and Americanised and completely unBondian.

The derelict French mother with the wine and the pills felt painfully cliched.

We're talking about a Bond movie, right?

This 'derelict French mother' stuff sounds ported in from Isabella Hupertville or someplace like that, much further afield than even the real-world suffering glimpsed in QUANTUM.

Guess I'll see for myself in two weeks when Redbox gets it (I think I may actually take notes while watching ... will keep me from shouting at or mumbling about what is on screen, which drives my wife nuts.)

trevanian wrote:

We're talking about a Bond movie, right?

This 'derelict French mother' stuff sounds ported in from Isabella Hupertville or someplace like that, much further afield than even the real-world suffering glimpsed in QUANTUM.

The Oxfam ad in QOS is hard to top for weird un-Bondiness.

Look forward to your thoughts on Derelict French Ma and the rest of the film.

CJB wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Nowadays, it’s become self indulgent where entire scenes forget they’re in a Bond film to satisfy the politics or awards-prestige-cravings of the film makers. Case in point, some of the stuff in the opening scene of NTTD felt so generic and Americanised and completely unBondian.

The derelict French mother with the wine and the pills felt painfully cliched.

And never thought I’d see a tamagotchi in a Bond film, either.

I never thought I'd see a Tamahori about a Bond film...

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

CJB wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Nowadays, it’s become self indulgent where entire scenes forget they’re in a Bond film to satisfy the politics or awards-prestige-cravings of the film makers. Case in point, some of the stuff in the opening scene of NTTD felt so generic and Americanised and completely unBondian.

The derelict French mother with the wine and the pills felt painfully cliched.

And never thought I’d see a tamagotchi in a Bond film, either.

Was the Bond-Baby playing with a tamagotchi? Do kids even play with those anymore? May as well have had Safin smear some nanobot-smallpox onto a Pokemon card as a way to get to the Bond family.

CJB wrote:

May as well have had Safin smear some nanobot-smallpox onto a Pokemon card as a way to get to the Bond family.

Yes Eon really drawing in the kidz with that one.

Other ideas mooted include: instead of a teddy Mathilde drops her Polly pocket, tedious scientist man prepares DNA sequence diagrams on a Lite Brite, during the forest chase Bond bounds around in moon shoes.

Safin ought to have crashed the SPECTRE party and killed off the members so he could play with their toys like that Seinfeld episode.

Somerset wrote:

Safin ought to have crashed the SPECTRE party and killed off the members so he could play with their toys like that Seinfeld episode.

"More wine and turkey?"

Just read that Kroger stores got a special deal to sell NTTD early (starting a few days back), so when you buy the dvd or blu, you get free package of Keebler cookies from Kellogg's.

Aren't Kellog's the bad guys? After hearing about how they treat the hired help, my wife has been swearing up and down that none of their product will ever be coming into the home again (not that there have been any here in at least the last 10 years anyway.)

Also, is this some long-range promotion for Craig starring as a Keebler Elf? (the role he was born to play, somebody please photoshop pointed ears and a funny hat on the NTTD poster and see how perfect it would be)

Keep the cookies, bin NTTD.

Finally was able to rent it this morning, watched first stretch before having to head to work. Start of chapter 7, Craig looks about as Bond-like as he ever has managed (is that Linus S or the makeup dept?) ... then he starts changing expression and the moment is lost again, probably forever. Pretty sure this is going to be living down to expectations (possible parody title there?)

More thoughts tomorrow a.m. ...

Following on from yesterday ... watched rest of movie, and wasn't as pissed off or disappointed as I expected to be. Enjoyed a lot of the 2nd half-hour, found that for its length it moved pretty well, at least until act 3 when the whole thing just became a grind, veering from Brosnan level machinegunnage to maudlin, drawn-out pathos. Didn't particularly buy into any of the emotional stuff at all, but again, no surprise there.

Biggest disappointment was not getting to actually see Craig vaporized ... had figured it was going to be something like a deluxe CG version of how George C. Scott goes in THE HINDENBURG, something I'd personally find satisfying given the frustrations of his tenure.

I did think the art dept did a good job on the old-school controls for the missiles, it looked period-appropriate, but the Ken Adam effect was pretty modest IMO ... I felt more Adam in the girl's home with the emphasis on structural elements in the ceiling than in the water-and-concrete lair, out of which I kept expecting to see girls in shower caps and bathing suits to emerge. There was one really strong 'they're riffing on AUSTIN POWERS again' moment, but damned if I can remember it right now.

Think they could have cut a ton from MI6 'team' stuff, given the villain something substantial, and had a shorter, better movie. Actually think it would have been more poignant if Bond had lived and had to go back to 6 knowing the best thing he could do is stay away from his family. As it stand, seems like he goes through a lot of grunting and pain-facing to just be in the right position for the camera at the end.

Would have preferred a much more dynamic end for him, something along the lines of MOONRAKER novel, where you could have seen him set off the whole complex by doing a very old-school thing -- just lighting a cigarette in a flammable environment. Having Bond go out smoking -- perhaps after using a voice identification program that admits him to the blast area so he can say Bond - James Bond -- would have been a nice wraparound to how we're introduced to him in DR NO.

Does anyone else remember a news leak from the middle of last year that the Paloma character was supposed to get killed in this? It was where I first read of the death of Felix, but have seen nothing about it recently, and wonder if it was a BS story, or whether the makers realized they've already got so much death and bad stuff that turning her into a high-function version of Fields from QUANTUM wouldn't gain them any ground and could alienate anybody who wasn't already enraged over the death of Leiter.

Sorry I don't have anything particularly nasty or outrageous to say, but after bitching for so long about the direction they've gone, I'm just glad this phase is over. I was tempted to do a full rundown from notes I started taking when watching, but found I wasn't even coming up with much in the way of pithy remarks. I also got mildly excited when I heard the name of the bad guy CIA character, because I misheard it as Nash instead of Ash, and figured it was a secret callback to FRWL's Grant posing as Nash -- meaning 'one of ours.' Such subtlety is probably beneath these folks, I guess.

Camera-wise, there were some nice focus shift moments that basically screamed LINUS operating the camera, esp early on when you rack focus across parts of the girl's home and see the spectre ring briefly. I still think they tend to crank the color in weird ways on exteriors, which is something that drove me bugshit crazy on CASINO ... it's like they can't leave nature alone to be nature they have to turn a knob to mess with it.

Unlike SKYFALL or CR, I might actually watch this again in a year or so, at least the stuff leading up through Cuba, but for me QUANTUM remains the only rewatchable film in the Craig era.

Good take.

The fake colours were a big bugbear of mine too.

CJB wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

CJB wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Nowadays, it’s become self indulgent where entire scenes forget they’re in a Bond film to satisfy the politics or awards-prestige-cravings of the film makers. Case in point, some of the stuff in the opening scene of NTTD felt so generic and Americanised and completely unBondian.

The derelict French mother with the wine and the pills felt painfully cliched.

And never thought I’d see a tamagotchi in a Bond film, either.

Was the Bond-Baby playing with a tamagotchi? Do kids even play with those anymore? May as well have had Safin smear some nanobot-smallpox onto a Pokemon card as a way to get to the Bond family.

It was little Madeleine at the beginning.

trevanian wrote:

Actually think it would have been more poignant if Bond had lived and had to go back to 6 knowing the best thing he could do is stay away from his family.

So much better. He’d go back to Jamaica and hideout until Q develops an antidote.

trevanian wrote:

Would have preferred a much more dynamic end for him, something along the lines of MOONRAKER novel, where you could have seen him set off the whole complex by doing a very old-school thing -- just lighting a cigarette in a flammable environment. Having Bond go out smoking -- perhaps after using a voice identification program that admits him to the blast area so he can say Bond - James Bond -- would have been a nice wraparound to how we're introduced to him in DR NO.

Again, also better.

Trev wrote:

Following on from yesterday ... watched rest of movie, and wasn't as pissed off or disappointed as I expected to be. Enjoyed a lot of the 2nd half-hour, found that for its length it moved pretty well, at least until act 3 when the whole thing just became a grind

So the 2nd half hour being the Cuban section? If so, I’d agree. Not sure if I mentioned this elsewhere but that part stands out as being the best in the film but I still think it’s overrated. I feel it appears to be better than it it because it’s surrounded by such mediocrity.

Trev wrote:

Start of chapter 7, Craig looks about as Bond-like as he ever has managed

What part is that? Cuba again?

Trev wrote:

veering from Brosnan level machinegunnage

At least that happened with a sense of style.

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

It was little Madeleine at the beginning.

Ah, makes sense. I forgot that Seydoux/Madeline isn't much older than me, thus presumably grew up around the same gizmos.

I look forward to the inevitable casting of a Gen Y James Bond, who will best the villain in a game of Tazos.

CJB wrote:

I look forward to the inevitable casting of a Gen Y James Bond, who will best the villain in a game of Tazos.

So long as the villain gets a participation ribbon.

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Trev wrote:

Start of chapter 7, Craig looks about as Bond-like as he ever has managed

What part is that? Cuba again?

It was him in Jamaica as I recall, his face somewhat in shadow. I think he is looking out at the water from his home. It was just five seconds at the start of a shot, kinda made me think of SEINFELD with the girl who had issues being in bad lighting.

A couple more thoughts. I had been listening to the FROM HELL soundtrack driving to work, and realized there was a similarity in the ending there to NTTD, but that HELL earned it, with the hero having to suffer alone for the rest of his days to protect the girl and her daughter. Trevor Jones' music was better too.

Also, has anybody complained about how they cranked up Craig's blue eyes to DUNE/Fremen level? We stopped the movie twice and played with the settings to take it down some, because it might as well have been the VILLAGE OF THE DAMNED kids after colorization.

There were actually several shots where the environment was dark but they seemed to isolate Craig's head and brighten it (power windows is the tool used in the grading suite to accomplish this, though usually with greater subtlety), which kind of distracted Hell out of me.

Am feeling much better today, brainwashing Bond largely from mind with new MATRIX. YMMV, but I was mostly delighted by it. First hour was a total blast, then it settles down somewhat (while Carrie-Anne Moss is absent), feels like Jada Pinkett Smith could have been dropped completely and it wouldn't have hurt a thing, and finished pretty well. Definitely atones for previous two sequels, though the visual impact of the action scenes doesn't come close to what was done before, with the new blurry stuff not measuring up IMO to the original's effects.

trevanian wrote:

It was him in Jamaica as I recall, his face somewhat in shadow. I think he is looking out at the water from his home. It was just five seconds at the start of a shot, kinda made me think of SEINFELD with the girl who had issues being in bad lighting.

Just watched that one yesterday given it's Festivus.

My quota for the airing of grievances was spent discussing NTTD on here.

I’ve long suspected they’ve been digitally altering the blue of Craig’s eyes. Can be very distracting. Almost alien-like.

trevanian wrote:

Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang wrote:

Trev wrote:

Start of chapter 7, Craig looks about as Bond-like as he ever has managed

What part is that? Cuba again?  

It was just five seconds at the start of a shot

Well, you can capture an unusual effect with light-colored eyes w/o digital trickery ... I remember that I took a picture for a Costco membership about 35 years back and you'd have thought I was a telepod accident fusing Martin Sheen with Meg Foster, going by the way my eyes registered, I guess owing to how they had the flash set up (this was with an actual film print camera, not a digital one.)

I've got very light-colored eyes anyway, used to be more blue and now more grey, but even so, unless I had a light on the same plane I stood, angled across my face, most of the time my eyes photographed dark on film most of the time. I've noticed that Shatner eyes in the TREK films doesn't register like he did in the TV series, back when they had to use a ton of light to get an exposure, that except for one shot at the end of TREK 6, you don't really see the eye color very well at all. I remember having a problem getting an old girlfriend's bright green eyes to register properly on film without using a ton of lighting too, and yet they showed just fine on videotape.

A lot of those shot-on-film inadequacies may have resulted from shooting reversal stock rather than negative stock (reversal has very little latitude, and if you're underexposed, there's nothing you can do to bring the image up -- kind of the same, through the opposite end of the scope, with how early digital was not handling overexposure, where if something blew out, it was gone forever.) Current digital cameras in the movie world have got insane abilities, too much really, as you can film in the dark and still get a more than adequate exposure, making the old 'movies without movie lights' adage true, but still, IMO, a crime against cinematography, where you need to shape the image for dramatic ends, not just docu-capture it.

Regarding the Craig eye thing, there's a tendency on some films that when you get into the digital intermediate process after editing is done, to either rethink things or just play. The rethinks can become a tail wagging the dog (WRINKLE IN TIME was utterly wrecked, the cinematographer didn't even recognize his own work when he first saw an ad for the film) or simply being too much and thus distracting, which is how I read the Craig eye thing.

By about the third time I noticed it in NTTD, I started making a sound effect with my mouth to emulate the audio from old SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN eps whenever Steve Austin blinked and used his bionic eye, because there was just nothing natural about the look at all. It actually seems way more dialed up than even Craig's appearance at the end of CR's opening credits when he comes right into camera (for me, a genuine horror movie moment.)

To get somewhat back on topic, are we to assume that the whole Cuba thing happens because Blofeld somehow knows that Leiter would go outside his own agency to recruit Bond for the job, just due to SPECTRE's involvement? I mean, the whole idea of Blofeld's B-day revolving around Bond's death seems pretty shaky to me anyway (what's one more idiocy among friends?), given SPECTRE could have just chartered their flight to Jamaica instead of Cuba and done him in at his home.

Just read an excerpt from an interview with the big guns on NTTD that hints they maybe did consider going the MOONRAKER route, as there is a throwaway line about one other death considered being 'blowing him up in a rocket.' https://variety.com/2021/film/news/no-time-to-die-ending-james-bond-death-daniel-craig-1235144941/

Be interested in reading the full piece when it is available, just to see if they drop any hints about the Boyle version (not holding breath on that, probably as far in the vault as the Forster dvd commentary.)

I said to Barbara, “How many of these movies do I have to make?” Because I don’t really look at contracts or any of those things. And she said, “Four,” and I went, “Oh, okay. Can I kill him off in the last one?” And she didn’t pause. She said, “Yes.” So I struck a deal with her back then and said, “That’s the way I’d like it to go.” It’s the only way I could see for myself to end it all and to make it like that was my tenure, someone else could come and take over. She stuck to her guns.

Ha. What a dick.

Maybe it should've ended with Craig's "Bond" slitting his wrists and moaning "I don't wanna be me anymore!"

Cubby would've never hired Craig and if he did and copped that sort of lip he would've told him to get out of the car and walk.

CJB wrote:

I said to Barbara, “How many of these movies do I have to make?” Because I don’t really look at contracts or any of those things. And she said, “Four,” and I went, “Oh, okay. Can I kill him off in the last one?” And she didn’t pause. She said, “Yes.” So I struck a deal with her back then and said, “That’s the way I’d like it to go.” It’s the only way I could see for myself to end it all and to make it like that was my tenure, someone else could come and take over. She stuck to her guns.

Ha. What a dick.

Maybe it should've ended with Craig's "Bond" slitting his wrists and moaning "I don't wanna be me anymore!"

Cubby would've never hired Craig and if he did and copped that sort of lip he would've told him to get out of the car and walk.

This sounds like BS. Wasn’t Spectre made, at the time, as though it was (or at least could serve as) Craig’s last? Hence the hemming and hawing for three years while he decided to return? Hence the tedious amount of NTTD that was devoted to mopping up and configuring the dangling elements from the SP story that no one quite cared about? In which case it doesn’t seem to have been all that important for him to have fulfilled this fantasy of killing Bond off as some kind of definitive end-point of his tenure?

This is the same crap TV writers use in the final season of a show that has devolved into bilge. “Oh, you didn’t like the way we chose to conclude the story arc? Well too bad, because that’s been the plan all along, from way back when you thought we were doing a good job, so there, little did you know.”

Who knows, but I'm prepared to take Craig and Babs at their word on the matter of the plan to kill off Bond because Vladimir Creggin is more speshul than the 5 actors who preceded him.