Tomorrow Never Dies in Review

Blunt Instrument wrote:

So TND was the first Bond from my newly-acquired Blu-Ray boxset that I decided to watch.

It's a lot of fun up until just after Bond and Wai-Lin's dive on the Devonshire, from which point it's hard to shake the feeling that things have gone slightly awry ... neither the overlong bike chase or 'TerminatorBond' on the stealth boat are as enjoyable as the pre-credits sequence or the Q-Branch Beamer-assisted escape from the hotel, for instance. And having the villain die before his henchman is a very odd decision.

It's ... pretty good overall, I guess. But I still prefer Goldeneye.

Good choice! Transfers well to blu?

As a noted fan of the bike chase, I'd disagree, since it adds an Oriental feel to the film. But I like a lot of the quieter moments in the second half - Bond looking for Wai Lin, their search for the stealth ship, the standoff between Bond and Pryce as they hold Gupta and Wai Lin hostage. 

And Bond killing the villain first isn't a new thing in the series. Blofeld(?) then Wint and Kidd, Kananga then TeeHee, Scaramanga then Nick Nack, Elektra before Renard...

Transfer is fine, but can't say there was anything about it that really blew my socks off as regards enhanced sharpness of picture or whatever.

TND is maybe one of those Bonds that could do with another 10 minutes or so in order to 'breathe' ... it's all a little frantic, although granted Our Man has only got 48 hours.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/tomorrow-never-dies/53777/the-fascinating-prescience-of-tomorrow-never-dies

Interesting Den Of Geek article about how TND seemed to be predicting the world of today, 20 years ago.

Indeed an interesting article. 

If a film remains a political and social talking point twenty years on from its release, it can hardly be considered "trash" as some label it.

Interesting read. Never really thought about the "recapturing imperial glory" aspect, but I suppose it's rather fanciful to imagine Britain undertaking unilateral military action against China.

The "fake news" aspect has been well-broached. Nowadays, a picture or a meme shared through social media is perceived as factual in the minds of simpletons. No need to actually manufacture an event in real life, as Carver did, simply put out a Tweet saying Hillary Clinton molested children at a pizza shop or Donald Trump bathes in hookers' urine and that's that.

One area where TND is a time capsule rather than a fortune teller is the opening sequence where the Russian government seemingly allows the UK to conduct a military operation within its borders. Thinkable only in 1991-2000, if that.

I do like the curious 'We have election in Moscow... Any loss of life is unacceptable'. Preceding the latter statement with the former amuses me. Highly doubtful that's an outdated expression in contemporary Russia.  

* * *

I am enjoying the twentieth anniversary celebrations of TND and the retrospective reviews of the film. It appears to be ageing like a fine wine to those not hell-bent on a crusade against the film (looking at you, Craig fanboys).

https://www.headstuff.org/film/20-years-on-tomorrow-never-dies-bond-brosnan/

FieldsMan wrote:

It appears to be ageing like a fine wine to those not hell-bent on a crusade against the film (looking at you, Craig fanboys).

I like TND.

And with good reason, Kath.

Well, I could say now that I only like the landscape and the scenery    , but I'll give you my true reasons instead.

TND has a serious message and I absolutely love it. That comes extremely close to Fleming's integration of contemporary issues, such as diamond smuggle (DAF) or the role of gold which serves as countervalue for curreny (GF). And the fact that it is media makes it all the better. It's actually surprising Fleming never wrote about his home turf. That's all in all truly Flemingnesque.
   It's just that it is still too close to the Bond formula to get higher in my ranking.

What are your reasons? I think the review at the beginning of the thread is a bit short.

Kath wrote:

Well, I could say now that I only like the landscape and the scenery    , but I'll give you my true reasons instead.

TND has a serious message and I absolutely love it. That comes extremely close to Fleming's integration of contemporary issues, such as diamond smuggle (DAF) or the role of gold which serves as countervalue for curreny (GF). And the fact that it is media makes it all the better. It's actually surprising Fleming never wrote about his home turf. That's all in all truly Flemingnesque.
   It's just that it is still too close to the Bond formula to get higher in my ranking.

What are your reasons? I think the review at the beginning of the thread is a bit short.

I wouldn't consider TND to have a 'serious message', rather something to think about. However, your correlation between Fleming's political and social commentary in the novels and the film exploring the media's power is something I've long argued, so you won't find an opponent from me on that front. 

TND has all the ingredients for me - the girls (Paris is one of my favourite Bond girls, Wai Lin is probably the only true "Bond equal"), sex, danger, brutality, the commentary, the sense of absurd and the local colour (admittedly it would have been nice to explore Hamburg a little more, but I feel the film has a German undercurrent that suggests why Carver has chosen Germany for his HQ). 

Not the mention the music is not only a highlight of modern Bond music (if it still qualifies 21 years later), but I think it's a highlight of the series. Every track - action, romance or everything in between - is excellent and is probably my most listened to score, along with TB, OHMSS, DAF, FYEO, TWINE and DAD. 

The action, while a little heavy handed in the opening and ending, is excitedly choreographed, and I like how the staging of the bike chase incorporates Saigon culture, without getting silly (a la the Tuk Tuk Chase in OP). 

In fact, I think Spottiswoode is underrated in that his approach to staging scenes helps move the story along. Transferring the briefing scene into a moving car alongside speeding police cars establishes the severity of the situation and creates a genuine sense of urgency. The German setting, as mentioned, I feel alludes to the Nazi Germany dictatorship, in that Carver wants his company to be in complete control of the media long after he would have died. The constant jabs toward "German efficiency", torturous doctors, the setting, etc. all help suggest that the media's sense of control and manipulation is comparable to totalitarian Nazi Germany.

I could go on, but they are some thoughts for now.

I'm guessing Hamburg was picked because the media sector is quite prominent there. Der Spiegel is published there, for one.

Haven't watched TND in maybe....10 years?

My last memory of it was it having the WORST villain I've ever seen, and his karate moves.

My favourite is the little crab thing he does with his hands.

CJB wrote:

I'm guessing Hamburg was picked because the media sector is quite prominent there.

Ah didn't know that. That makes sense. It's not like Prague-masquerading-as-Montenegro-instead-of-France for no good reason.

bitchcraft wrote:

Haven't watched TND in maybe....10 years?

My last memory of it was it having the WORST villain I've ever seen, and his karate moves.

Give it another go. I've always thought Pryce was underrated, and far from the worst villain in the series - that would go to Waltz' Blofeld or Graves or Stromberg. 

What's a little racism to the Chinese folk when he's directing a missile into Beijing?

FieldsMan wrote:

Kath wrote:

Well, I could say now that I only like the landscape and the scenery    , but I'll give you my true reasons instead.

TND has a serious message and I absolutely love it. That comes extremely close to Fleming's integration of contemporary issues, such as diamond smuggle (DAF) or the role of gold which serves as countervalue for curreny (GF). And the fact that it is media makes it all the better. It's actually surprising Fleming never wrote about his home turf. That's all in all truly Flemingnesque.
   It's just that it is still too close to the Bond formula to get higher in my ranking.

What are your reasons? I think the review at the beginning of the thread is a bit short.

I wouldn't consider TND to have a 'serious message', rather something to think about. However, your correlation between Fleming's political and social commentary in the novels and the film exploring the media's power is something I've long argued, so you won't find an opponent from me on that front. 

TND has all the ingredients for me - the girls (Paris is one of my favourite Bond girls, Wai Lin is probably the only true "Bond equal"), sex, danger, brutality, the commentary, the sense of absurd and the local colour (admittedly it would have been nice to explore Hamburg a little more, but I feel the film has a German undercurrent that suggests why Carver has chosen Germany for his HQ). 

Not the mention the music is not only a highlight of modern Bond music (if it still qualifies 21 years later), but I think it's a highlight of the series. Every track - action, romance or everything in between - is excellent and is probably my most listened to score, along with TB, OHMSS, DAF, FYEO, TWINE and DAD. 

The action, while a little heavy handed in the opening and ending, is excitedly choreographed, and I like how the staging of the bike chase incorporates Saigon culture, without getting silly (a la the Tuk Tuk Chase in OP). 

In fact, I think Spottiswoode is underrated in that his approach to staging scenes helps move the story along. Transferring the briefing scene into a moving car alongside speeding police cars establishes the severity of the situation and creates a genuine sense of urgency. The German setting, as mentioned, I feel alludes to the Nazi Germany dictatorship, in that Carver wants his company to be in complete control of the media long after he would have died. The constant jabs toward "German efficiency", torturous doctors, the setting, etc. all help suggest that the media's sense of control and manipulation is comparable to totalitarian Nazi Germany.

I could go on, but they are some thoughts for now.

Thank you. I hadn't seen that connection to the German past and it makes sense to me.
I only have one question: Wasn't the soundtrack to CR 06 written by Arnold, too?
I am sorry to say that the soundtrack simply does not speak to me; but when it comes to preference and taste we can hardly discuss any further. I can't even tell you why. But apparently not all of Arnold's soundtracks find your favour either.

Yes, Arnold composed the score for CR06, but he was with under instruction to not include the Bond theme and strip back Arnold's characteristics. Same rule applied for QOS, but he had to compose based on the script, and that worked wonders. The QOS score is much more interesting than its immediate predecessor because of the different motifs he weaves throughout. 

No, I don't blindly follow what artists throw at me. I like it based on what I qualify as merit. Otherwise known as an opinion. So, I really like Arnold's scores during the Brosnan era and QOS, but CR leaves a lot to be desired.

FieldsMan wrote:

No, I don't blindly follow what artists throw at me. I like it based on what I qualify as merit. Otherwise known as an opinion. So, I really like Arnold's scores during the Brosnan era and QOS, but CR leaves a lot to be desired.

I didn't imply that. I was just wondering because I like pretty much everything of Hans Zimmer for instance. I just like his handwriting, seemingly. I was just curious. I always have that feeling that you become defensive against me when I had no intention of attacking you.
It is just striking, or, curious, peculiar, strange, that you love one soundtrack and abhor another when they stem from the very same person (as far as I gather this exceeds by far "like" and "dislike"). I didn't know that there were prescriptions for CR; that's why I'm asking. Problem solved. We're here for a discussion, aren't we?

I find TND a lot of fun. Arnold's score is fantastic and the action sequences are
well filmed.

I don't know what it is but after all this time TND still has a certain feeling of blandness to it that I can never quite put my finger on. I love it and many things in it, but I know it has numerous deficiencies.

It works best as an action film taken at face value-as one of the last big scale classically styled film photographed action films. This and Spottiswoode's direction keep the pace going which is essential to film's success. Because if you slow things down and look closer the thing starts to unravel and reveal all of the massive scripting problems, cast changes, and production troubles.
TND works as a compliment to GE in that it does all of the opposite things GE didn't. TND is a big action film but lacks in the character moments and style that made GE special. So they compliment one another but to me are never quite fully fledged Bond films because each feels like it is missing something.

I watch the film every year in my marathon, saw it opening week in '97 and again so I didn't have to be dragged kicking and screaming to Titanic boredom with the rest of the family. TND cries out to be seen on a big screen or at least in a good home theater. You lose much impact form not having the 5.1 mix in it's full glory as it is still a reference grade track like GE and DAD.

For the score, it works well in the film but when listening separately only works in fits and sputters. The Arnold interview on the second CD release explains that he was only able to compose pieces of the film without rushing and then others at breakneck speed which accounts for why there are some segments that never felt fully realized to my ears. This is nitpicking as it is a good score for the film but it is nowhere near my favorite series score.

Best scene: Kauffman's appearance
Favorite scene and music cue: Bond breaking in and searching Gupta's office. Look-007 doing spy stuff!

Agreed that Carver's karate is perhaps a bit too much but his "Pathetic" is beautifully delivered and makes the wimp-fu make sense in the scene.

FieldsMan wrote:

CJB wrote:

I'm guessing Hamburg was picked because the media sector is quite prominent there.

Ah didn't know that. That makes sense. It's not like Prague-masquerading-as-Montenegro-instead-of-France for no good reason.

Actually, I don't think any of those reasons are correct. It was my understanding that Germany was picked as a location for TND because of the huge support at the box office the country gave to GOLDENEYE. GE was quite a huge hit in Germany, and was the #2 market for the film after the U.S. (in 1995 dollars). Boxofficemojo.com no longer has the individual country breakdown stats for the film, but Germany accounted for close to 20% of the overall box office for Goldeneye at the time.

It's nothing personal against Germany, but the story was such that the first half of the film could have been placed in any number of locations that Bond had not previously visited. Australia might've made sense at the time with the emergence of Rupert Murdoch's global empire, or even Atlanta where CNN is based. Hamburg is serviceable as a location, but we've been to Germany with Octopussy, and if we're going to go back might've benefited from a bit more exposition like we get in India, Morocco, Austria, Key West, Brasil.....

hegottheboot wrote:

I watch the film every year in my marathon, saw it opening week in '97 and again so I didn't have to be dragged kicking and screaming to Titanic boredom with the rest of the family.

Didn't get to watch it in theatres but I did get the VHS when it came out. It was the version with Desmond Llewellyn promoting the PlayStation game at the start.  

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

CJB wrote:

I'm guessing Hamburg was picked because the media sector is quite prominent there.

Ah didn't know that. That makes sense. It's not like Prague-masquerading-as-Montenegro-instead-of-France for no good reason.

Actually, I don't think any of those reasons are correct. It was my understanding that Germany was picked as a location for TND because of the huge support at the box office the country gave to GOLDENEYE. GE was quite a huge hit in Germany, and was the #2 market for the film after the U.S. (in 1995 dollars). Boxofficemojo.com no longer has the individual country breakdown stats for the film, but Germany accounted for close to 20% of the overall box office for Goldeneye at the time.

It's nothing personal against Germany, but the story was such that the first half of the film could have been placed in any number of locations that Bond had not previously visited. Australia might've made sense at the time with the emergence of Rupert Murdoch's global empire, or even Atlanta where CNN is based. Hamburg is serviceable as a location, but we've been to Germany with Octopussy, and if we're going to go back might've benefited from a bit more exposition like we get in India, Morocco, Austria, Key West, Brasil.....

It might explain why Hamburg was chosen instead of Berlin, Munich etc.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

CJB wrote:

I'm guessing Hamburg was picked because the media sector is quite prominent there.

Ah didn't know that. That makes sense. It's not like Prague-masquerading-as-Montenegro-instead-of-France for no good reason.

Actually, I don't think any of those reasons are correct. It was my understanding that Germany was picked as a location for TND because of the huge support at the box office the country gave to GOLDENEYE. GE was quite a huge hit in Germany, and was the #2 market for the film after the U.S. (in 1995 dollars). Boxofficemojo.com no longer has the individual country breakdown stats for the film, but Germany accounted for close to 20% of the overall box office for Goldeneye at the time.

It's nothing personal against Germany, but the story was such that the first half of the film could have been placed in any number of locations that Bond had not previously visited. Australia might've made sense at the time with the emergence of Rupert Murdoch's global empire, or even Atlanta where CNN is based. Hamburg is serviceable as a location, but we've been to Germany with Octopussy, and if we're going to go back might've benefited from a bit more exposition like we get in India, Morocco, Austria, Key West, Brasil.....

Absolutely, but the script could have evolved around the use of Germany. Sure, earlier drafts featured Venice instead, but it makes a lot more sense for Hamburg to be used for both the strong media sector and Nazi Germany ties. 

hegottheboot wrote:

I don't know what it is but after all this time TND still has a certain feeling of blandness to it that I can never quite put my finger on. I love it and many things in it, but I know it has numerous deficiencies. 

I disagree. I'd wager TND is rising in estimation amongst many. Perhaps you see blandness; I personally see efficiency. It's another mission for Bond, rejuvenating the WWIII narrative thread for the new world, and improving on the YOLT/TSWLM/MR mould by incorporating media motifs.

And with a refreshing lack of "this time it's personal" - the only personal connection being Paris, but it's not as though the plot hinges on their past relationship - rather, it's another complication/obstacle in Bond's mission. 

I agree, it's nice to see Bond sneaking into CMNG, and almost getting out without being caught. It sells Bond as the competent spy we've been led to believe but we seen very little of. And Arnold's music is on point - not just here, but the entire film.

" Caesar had his legions, Napoleon had his armies, I have my divisions. TV, news, magazines. And by midnight I'll have reached and influenced more people than anyone in the history of this planet, [points up] save God Himself. And the best He ever managed was the Sermon on the Mount"

Wow, what an absolute scum bag this man is in all ways but that last line really get's me. If I ever run across Jonathan Pryce on the street remind me to throw a punch at him or better yet, shake his hand and tell him how he was one of the very best Bond villains that almost convinced me he was Elliot Carver.

The only positive aspect of Paris very tragic death is that she will never have to see him again. I can usually conjure up some sympathy for the villains such as the Stromberg types as I can guess at how they got that way and even more so with a character like Elektra King. Max Zorin, well I am just getting as far away from him as possible. But when it comes to Carver I'm pretty sure I could put a bullet in his skull and go have a nice lunch afterwards. Just fantastic acting and it's the little touches that do it as well. He can be quite hammy, outrageous, buffoonish, beyond full of ego exactly as these types tend to be. And his feeling the need to even mock Wai Lin is just so spot on, of course he couldn't resist that petty display despite feeling she was of no threat. Why is it that the biggest threats to the world are always so pathetic and such clowns at the same time?

And it's not just Carver and his quirks or even his need to have people tortured to death but everything the man stands for makes me sick. I am really not sure if he is supposed to be an actual character or a symbol for 'the media' in general and how they are really nothing but the propaganda arm for the MIC. "You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war." Was that one man's words and ideas or just another puppet of the govt? All puppets IMO so I despise Carver as much as an entity as I do an individual...he is both. Whether the medium is print, TV, radio or the internet really makes no difference.

"Words are the new weapons! Satellites the new artillery!"

Very interesting line and not sure how to take that as words have always been used as weapons and even weapons of mass destruction such as Saddam possessed. Thank you CNN for informing us of the immediate danger so we could bomb those SOB's. It's almost too bad Carver died in the film as I would have been looking forward to his story about those Syrians and Iranians.

OK, so how can I not love this plot? Just watching the movie itself is such a great act of irony and for me there is no real cross over from fact to fiction as it really is all scripted. The way he makes up the headlines is exactly how I have always pictured it. The whole concept of Carver is just so depressing, angering and gives one a feeling of hopelessness. It makes me desperately need a hero and some hope there are actually good guys out there...somewhere, in the shadows? He's going to have to be rather formidable too which makes the opening of TND all the better. One of my favorite openings, Pierce totally sells it and the filming of the action sequences are excellent throughout the entire movie. I am really glad they decided to go more action oriented in this one with such a depressing back ground and plot, great balance.

I needed the jokes, the gadgets, the car(remote control no less), the chases, the girls and this one really delivers on all fronts. That chase in the garage is one of my favorite in the series providing great action that is quite funny at the same time with him in the back seat. Back seat drivers. And the car just happened to have a device to cut the wire? Why? Cause Bond. love that! Just like The World is Not Enough, TND opening is better than most action movies out there combined.

And I knew the second that I saw that Michelle Yeoh was in the film she would end up one of my favorite Bond girls and she didn't disappoint. Honestly the movie would have been pretty damn awesome if she was the star, having her in a Bond movie is a dream come true. I've enjoyed every movie I've ever seen her in including the cheaper productions like the one with Cynthia Rothrock.
Loved every second she was on the screen and finally someone who can really fight. The escape from Carvers building sliding down the banner. The motorcycle scene with them handcuffed was probably my favorite part of the movie displaying some amazing stunt work.The rooftop was as exciting as it gets. Then we get to see her open a can on the goons in her own Q like office reminding me again she is the female version of Jackie Chan. I really liked how her character was no nonsense, stick to business and the fact you never knew what she was thinking. I saw no need to flesh the character out more and as for the scene under the outdoor shower...wow, nice, very nice. Handcuffed to Michelle Yeoh in a shower is probably enough to give the movie a 9/10.
Oh and her walking down the wall managed to be a very cool scene as well as funny with Bonds reaction to it.

Dr Kaufman scene. lol

James Bond, to Paris Carver, "I always wondered how I'd feel if I ever saw you again." After she turns and slaps him, he says, "Now I know." lol

Lot's of great laughs in this one too, Pierce can really do the humor.

And loved seeing Bond with the machine gun in one hand and the entire ending as I said I was happy to have a more action type film with that dark plot and this was practically John Woo like in that regard. A pop corn and action film full of adrenaline but with a very deep message underneath not only about scripted media manipulation but also that words create our reality. It's hard to complain about that and as I try to think of negatives about this outing to make it more balanced I just keep remembering more scenes I liked. I thought Brosnan was perfect and agree with the idea he was born to play Bond.

Fantastic write up, Sarai! You sound almost as fond of TND as I am. Carver really is a villain you love to hate.

I'm so glad you designated part of your review to the film's commentary on the media's power. Interesting thought about the hopelessness of Carver and his ambition and you're absolutely right: cynicism manifests itself not just in Bond's character but in the communications industry and we all know that the media, whether it's CMGN or another company, still exist beyond the film. It's not a Goldeneye weapon, or the Lektor in the wrong hands, but a threat in the hands of many moguls and companies in reality.