The Future Of James Bond

I can see the future of the Bond series....





































sh*t, it was here somewhere.... :scratch:

Seriously though, are we headed for another Dalton scenario with Craig? Hope not, but right now it seems kinda possible.

It seems very possible.

In a way, I'm really hoping it'll give EON time to get their sh*t together - drop Purvis and Wade, Arnold, Judi Dench, etc.

Time for a fresh start. And bring some espionage to the series, for christsake. Enough of the mindless explosions.

Well MGM is now in the hands of the debt holders. As I mentioned on MI6, while I prefer to stay optimistic, the first thought that crossed my mind was the fact that the debt holders have little experience in running such a business. I really hope they don't stuff anything up to further delay Bond 23.

Brown, what did you think of Arnold's QOS score? If they continue in a similar direction, in terms of distinctiveness, I'm sure Arnold will be fine. He has produced some quality things over his years, even though I think he has produced more good than bad.

In regards to Purvis and Wade, I feel they are doing a good job, though they shouldn't be left without Michael Wilson, and other scriptwriters to polish/alter their ideas. They can develop some great ideas and basic plotlines, such as DAD's invading South Korea as 'all Korea is ruled by the North' but some of the other scenes in DAD seriously diminished what could have been a great thriller. Not to mention the turd in Lee Tamawhori that stuffed up the majority of it (His idea for the paraskiing...). In terms of writing, I think Michael Wilson should seriously develop a script and spend as much time on it. Now would be a great time to do so, whilst the problem with MGM is taken care of. I really enjoyed what he had done in the 80s. The scripts, particularly OP, FYEO and TLD, showed some very generous glimpses of both the cinematic and literary Bond, strong character and plotlines which was all the more satisfying. A crime novelist/scriptwriter would be a great addition to the franchise, with Wilson adding the Bondian touches.

Which leads to more espionage. I agree. One of the highpoints of TWINE, TND, AVTAK and MR are that there were generous helpings of espionage. Say what you like about the plots and executions, but they did retain a fair amount of espionage. MR had Bond sneak around Drax's chateau, snap photos of the documents, escape to Venice, and snoop around, investigate around the Amazon river, etc, etc. TND had Bond sneaking around Carver's building, assuming a cover, investigating shipwreck, and getting in undetected, planning strategies and back up plans for the Stealth Ship. We need more espionage than explosions. And it's good way to gain suspense too!

FieldsMan wrote:

Which leads to more espionage. I agree. One of the highpoints of TWINE, TND, AVTAK and MR are that there were generous helpings of espionage. Say what you like about the plots and executions, but they did retain a fair amount of espionage. MR had Bond sneak around Drax's chateau, snap photos of the documents, escape to Venice, and snoop around, investigate around the Amazon river, etc, etc. TND had Bond sneaking around Carver's building, assuming a cover, investigating shipwreck, and getting in undetected, planning strategies and back up plans for the Stealth Ship. We need more espionage than explosions. And it's good way to gain suspense too!

Well said, Fieldsman! This is the essence of Bond, the espionage! I feel that Dr. No and FRWL did this the best. Can't beat the originals as far as that goes.

The actino needs to break up the espionage, not the other way around, as it's seemed to evolve.

I wish Bond was more like Sherlock Holmes, where re-interpretation is freer -- you can have dyed-in-the-wool traditionalisms like the BBC Jeremy Brett show, rockin' Hollywood blockbusters like the RDJ movie, bizarro sci-fi re-imaginings like "Sherlock Holmes in the 22nd Century" and intelligent kids' programming like the YTV series "Shirley Holmes".

What I'm getting at is can you imagine if BBC or AMC or someone did a TV mini-series based solely on the books? Y'know, period and all. Racism, sexism, smoking, cigarettes, etc etc. Do six episode seasons with each season covering a book. That sort of thing.

It doesn't have to be INSTEAD of the EON series, but it would be nice if EON could lax up a little to have something like that running beside the movies. Certainly help keep interest afloat during the dry spells.

But of course, EON's policy towards Bond is like the tagline from HIGHLANDER.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

IWhat I'm getting at is can you imagine if BBC or AMC or someone did a TV mini-series based solely on the books? Y'know, period and all. Racism, sexism, smoking, cigarettes, etc etc. Do six episode seasons with each season covering a book. That sort of thing.

I'd be up for that as long as they stay true to the books and don't cram in any PC junk as is often the case. I wouldn't want something like that Robin Hood series from a couple years back. Yeah, Robin was best buds with a butt-kickin' feminist Muslim.

Perhaps I'm being cynical, it's just that every non-comedic British series I've been exposed to in the last couple of years has been painfully obsessed with doy-vers-ity and soft-left political correctness that I have trouble imagining the glamorous hedonism, snobbery, chauvinism and imperialism of James Bond being portrayed on television without some preachy post-modernism being injected into it one way or another.

CJB wrote:

Perhaps I'm being cynical, it's just that every non-comedic British series I've been exposed to in the last couple of years has been painfully obsessed with doy-vers-ity and soft-left political correctness that I have trouble imagining the glamorous hedonism, snobbery, chauvinism and imperialism of James Bond being portrayed on television without some preachy post-modernism being injected into it one way or another.

That's why I said BBC or AMC. I hedonism, etc I could see AMC being on board with -- but I included BBC due their "true-to-the-book" reputation with classic British stuff like Conan Doyle and Jane Austen and so on.

Fair enough.

Though you've got me thinking about how great Dalton would've been in a period piece on TV. On the big screen, the general public expected an action hero shooting off one-liners to and fro. On the small screen, he would've been free to be Fleming's Bond with no constraints.

Oh well, best not to deal with what-if's about the past on a thread about the future of the series. :)

EON should look more at the Fleming novels.
The James Bond they market now in the guise of Daniel Craig is almost nothing like the one Fleming devised.
They don't have to make a period piece, but Bond should have as many elements of Fleming's Bond as possible.
Reduce the witty lines.
Let Bond smoke again.
He doesn't need to be a brooding thug all the time. If ever.

That's a start at least. Maybe to incorporate a little more of his office life. A bit about his survival fieldbook he's writing.
There's so much Fleming that hasn't transpired to the films. And so much crap that isn't Bond that has crept in over the years, that people take it for granted.

Everyone should not know who Bond is.
The vodka martini is getting beyond a joke. Flemings Bond drank more than martinis.

A better writing team and producers who know James Bond would be a good start.

My position is that Bond lost his distinct identity with Dalton. Brosnan's version was mostly a pastiche competing with Mission: Impossible movies, while Craig's is clearly more inspired by the other secret agent with initials JB.

This is where Bond's at now:

In one of my last posts at the old place, I argued - again - that no future Bond movie will ever truly work as well as those in the Connery heyday, unless they are period pieces.

James Bond is very much a product of his era and trying to fit him into a modern setting will always yield awkward results.

Of course this will never happen, since product placement trumps all creative considerations.

That's the through-line of modern Bond. How much can you adapt the character to contemporary sensibilities, without losing his identity, David Webb-style. It's a natural outcome of Bond becoming a juggernaut of a franchise, and gradually becoming a commodity. A faceless product, not a character.

But I'm sceptical of Bond becoming a period piece. IMO, it'd be more interesting to have an anachronistic Bond fixed in the present day, and show how he interacts with that world. A period piece is the easy option for nostalgics, but not the way forward.

Salomé wrote:

In one of my last posts at the old place, I argued - again - that no future Bond movie will ever truly work as well as those in the Connery heyday, unless they are period pieces.

Funny, I remember saying that in one of my last posts at MI6. Oh, and that Baker St was having a 'buy one, get one free' offer.

ambler wrote:

Salomé wrote:

In one of my last posts at the old place, I argued - again - that no future Bond movie will ever truly work as well as those in the Connery heyday, unless they are period pieces.

Funny, I remember saying that in one of my last posts at MI6. Oh, and that Baker St was having a 'buy one, get one free' offer.

I gave you credit in my post though! For the period piece thing, not the two-for-one offer.

Salomé wrote:

I gave you credit in my post though!

Thanks, I'm sure many have had the same thought. Re Sharky's point about a period Bond adrift in the modern world, that's DAF for me; the sixties are over and he's no longer relevant, and knows it.

Sharky wrote:

This is where Bond's at now:

I Painface'd every time I slipped on a banana.

I'm surprised no one has posted a picture of DC in drag yet...

Surely only a matter of time.

Quote :

What I'm getting at is can you imagine if BBC or AMC or someone did a TV mini-series based solely on the books? Y'know, period and all. Racism, sexism, smoking, cigarettes, etc etc. Do six episode seasons with each season covering a book. That sort of thing.

It doesn't have to be INSTEAD of the EON series, but it would be nice if EON could lax up a little to have something like that running beside the movies. Certainly help keep interest afloat during the dry spells.

Heh. I almost started a thread with that exact idea before MI6 was wiped.

From my observations, part of the reason Bond thrives is from constantly being compared to itself, eg. what Bond girl was better, what Bond was better etc - not just on the internet but when it comes up in real conversation. So I hardly think something like that would dilute the brand as it were. Business wise, Bond is a big enough commodity that you'd probably be able to secure co-financing from a wide number of television networks around the world, and it would sell on home video for eternity.

Still, I can't see it happening. Certainly not anytime soon, then again, supposedly EON had a large role in those James Bond radio plays on the BBC...

CJB wrote:

Though you've got me thinking about how great Dalton would've been in a period piece on TV. On the big screen, the general public expected an action hero shooting off one-liners to and fro. On the small screen, he would've been free to be Fleming's Bond with no constraints.

This is what I intend to dream about tonight.

Thank you.

Mr. Brown wrote:

It seems very possible.

In a way, I'm really hoping it'll give EON time to get their sh*t together - drop Purvis and Wade, Arnold, Judi Dench, etc.

Time for a fresh start. And bring some espionage to the series, for christsake. Enough of the mindless explosions.

Yeah. Amen to that! It's just one chase, fighting and shooting scene after another, couple with mindless explosions. There needs to be more investigating (espionage work as you say) along with some healthy character development for Bond, the Bond girl and the villain, coupled with a more developed relationship between Felix and Bond. They need to give the audience time to get their breath. Give us some scenes where Bond is gambling, having dinner with the Bond girl or/and villain doing some investigating as mentioned, some suba diving etc. Let's see a short scene at his flat off the Kings Road. Bond is so much more than just an action man. In the Brosnan films he is an action caricature. Not that I expect to see what I have suggested actually happen but it would be nice. I would like to say that I am a fan of the contemporary Bond films instead of just saying it is the Pre Brosnan films and Casino Royale that I like.

What I'd like to see for Bond 23:

Something along the style/feel of TLD - I'd be most happy with... I'd like to see some more character, more spy stuff, a bit more glamour/escapism, and make it less dour with some more humour to lighten up some of the darker or more proposterous elements. And of course it's about time we had a decent battle between the goodies and baddies (rather than Bond going off as a one man killing machine). Plus stop screwing needlessly with the gun-barrel - we want it back in it's proper place now. It seems everyone else is going "darker" and "grittier" - so I'd like to see Bond changing a few of the general movie trends again - rather than following them as they do currently.

Satorious wrote:

What I'd like to see for Bond 23:

Something along the style/feel of TLD - I'd be most happy with... I'd like to see some more character, more spy stuff, a bit more glamour/escapism, and make it less dour with some more humour to lighten up some of the darker or more proposterous elements. And of course it's about time we had a decent battle between the goodies and baddies (rather than Bond going off as a one man killing machine). Plus stop screwing needlessly with the gun-barrel - we want it back in it's proper place now. It seems everyone else is going "darker" and "grittier" - so I'd like to see Bond changing a few of the general movie trends again - rather than following them as they do currently.

Agreed on all fronts. There is an excess of the "dark"/"deep"/"gritty" in mainstream action cinema as it is. It's time for Bond to go on with his job without the emotional baggage and without the Donkey Kong antics, no matter how good Craig's become at it. He must rise to the challenge and finally give us a Bond performance that rivals Connery, Moore, and Dalton not just in physical action, but also in charm.

Regarding story, as much as I'd like an old-fashioned TB/TLD-style adventure, I'm intrigued by the rumours of where Bond 23 is heading. From the sound of things, Quantum or whoever will already have achieved their goal (hopefully something like world domination rather than a monopoly on buttplugs) and Bond's mission will be to tear it all down. Hopefully he won't be going rogue again or dealing with another MI6 traitor though.

GeneralGogol wrote:

Regarding story, as much as I'd like an old-fashioned TB/TLD-style adventure, I'm intrigued by the rumours of where Bond 23 is heading. From the sound of things, Quantum or whoever will already have achieved their goal (hopefully something like world domination rather than a monopoly on buttplugs)

Sounds like Kennon was hoarding them. But I digress.

I came into forum to find a thread on Michael Fassbender and could not, so I'll use this thread as a jump off point. I've heard a lot of great things about him and how he is absolutely perfect to be the next James Bond. Question: after having done porn an NC-17 film (Shame), would EON take a chance on him? They did it with Eva Green, but she wasn't expected to carry the series and, besides, nobody cares if a woman is sexually objectified. Personally, I think Babs would be willing to hire Fassbender because he seems like the kind of actor, much like Craig, who is willing to bare it all to sell a film (providing the sex and nudity is artistic and isn't done to be exploitative, blah blah blah) that has something to say, and is willing to let himself be objectified in all the ways the Bond Girls are normally objectified.

This used to be done much more subtlety back in the old days. We *knew* Connery was a sex symbol even in that ugly, baby-blue, terry-cloth robe from GOLDFINGER. We didn't have to have it shoved in our faces like Craig's nude scene in CR or his swimming trunks scene. But Babs, being who she is, seems hell bent on leveling the playing field for women through the Bond series (even though Bond should be made for men without any input from women and their feelings and opinions).

So, is this Fassbender fellow any good? I haven't seen anything he's been in yet. Maybe Steve McQueen should be hired for BOND 25 and help Barbara really push the envelope by making the first NC-17 Bond film. The could call it: SHAMELADY.