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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:54 am

Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
in an ideal world, none of these men get away with their behavior for several decades.

In an an ideal world, no one would have their lives and reputations destroyed unless they'd been convicted of a crime.

By that reasoning, can I assume you are against the use of a victim's sexual history in any rape case?
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:28 am

Quote :
Also on Tuesday, The New York Times announced that it was canceling a TimesTalk conversation featuring Franco and his brother and Disaster Artist costar Dave Franco that was set for Wednesday. “Given the controversy surrounding recent allegations, we’re no longer comfortable proceeding in that vein,” a representative told The Hollywood Reporter. Times culture writer Sopan Deb, who was originally set to moderate the TimesTalk, said Franco declined to respond to the allegations.

https://www.theringer.com/pop-culture/2018/1/10/16873594/james-franco-sexual-harassment-assault-allegations-the-late-show

Okay, this is nonsense. However one might feel about James Franco, the NYTimes has absolutely no right to be this self-righteous in light of the slap on the wrist Glenn Thrush got from them.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:16 am

Salomé wrote:
can I assume you are against the use of a victim's sexual history in any rape case?

In most cases it's irrelevant. However, in England's recent spate of false rape allegations, the fact that the so-called victims had made multiple fake accusations before was relevant to the defence. In a fair and just legal process the individual should be on trial not the patriarchal system; there is no acceptable level of collateral damage whatever some misandrist prosecutors might believe.
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Secret Files
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:27 am

Erica Ambler wrote:
Salomé wrote:
in an ideal world, none of these men get away with their behavior for several decades.

In an an ideal world, no one would have their lives and reputations destroyed unless they'd been convicted of a crime.

I agree. Trial by media is no substitute for the factual and legal analysis of a case in court under due process.
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FieldsMan
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:44 am

In other news, Harvey Weinstein gets slapped and Michael Douglas controls a potential accusation from getting out of hand.

Douglas:
http://deadline.com/2018/01/michael-douglas-sexual-harassment-allegation-defends-himself-1202239676/

Considerate journalists I suppose, by waiting until after Christmas to decide to publish the story. Really don't like the "they're going to run with it so we should post it too" motivation. 

Weinstein
http://www.smh.com.au/video/video-entertainment/video-entertainment-news/harvey-weinstein-slapped-in-restaurant-20180110-51kfd.html
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:00 pm

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/radio/germaine-greer-talks-mclachlan-trump-and-the-feminist-revolution/news-story/5136531ac09c9d1d7db818ccdd696988

Germaine Greer has been eminently sensible in the last few years (she was pilloried a while back for suggesting there was a difference between someone born a woman and a man who's hacked the sack).

Either she's matured or the rest of the Western world has gone too far off the deep end.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:10 pm

CJB wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/radio/germaine-greer-talks-mclachlan-trump-and-the-feminist-revolution/news-story/5136531ac09c9d1d7db818ccdd696988

Germaine Greer has been eminently sensible in the last few years (she was pilloried a while back for suggesting there was a difference between someone born a woman and a man who's hacked the sack).

Either she's matured or the rest of the Western world has gone too far off the deep end.

Really? In that piece, Greer says these cases will be terrible as 'it will pit woman against woman".

I fail to see how group think is 'sensible'.
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:42 pm

More so her remarks on the rush to presume guilt.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:25 am

She's not wrong about the fact that ultimately, this will not truly harm the long-term career prospects of the majority of these men.

Mel Gibson survived very public antisemitism, an expletive-laden DUI stop and a leaked audio tape on which he threatened his then-girlfriend with violence and admitted he had hit her hard enough in the past to break one of her teeth and he is now back to playing in studio comedies and getting Oscar nominations for his directorial efforts.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:31 pm

So the latest #MeToo revelation involves the then 12-year old Eliza Dushku who was sexually assaulted by the stunt coordinator on "True Lies".
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:17 pm

I think we have reached a point now where some of the stuff that is coming out is probably to the detriment of the movement.

e.g. the one woman who regrets doing a nude scene for James Franco.

The Aziz Ansari thing seems to be a woman having buyer's remorse about a consensual sexual encounter?
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:15 pm

Was inevitable that people with non-stories would jump on the bandwagon. Such is the allure of sympathy in these victim-friendly times.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:21 pm

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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:47 am

And this:

Quote :
The single most distressing thing to me about Grace’s story is that the only person with any agency in the story seems to be Aziz Ansari. Grace is merely acted upon.

All of this put me in mind of another piece published this weekend, this one by the novelist and feminist icon Margaret Atwood. “My fundamental position is that women are human beings,” she writes. “Nor do I believe that women are children, incapable of agency or of making moral decisions. If they were, we’re back to the 19th century, and women should not own property, have credit cards, have access to higher education, control their own reproduction or vote. There are powerful groups in North America pushing this agenda, but they are not usually considered feminists.”

Except, increasingly, they are.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:05 am

Rachel Grant, otherwise known as Peaceful Fountains of Desire, was allegedly assaulted by Steven Seagal.

https://news.sky.com/story/bond-girl-alleges-steven-seagal-sexually-assaulted-her-after-2002-audition-11209724
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:57 pm

Considering that Steven Seagal (jokingly?) tried it on with the then 16-year old Katherine Heigl, this isn't a huge surprise.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:18 am

Quote :
In the first year of the Trump presidency, the Hulu television series The Handmaid's Tale—which concerns a dystopian future U.S. where totalitarian religious authorities subjugate women—became essential #Resistance viewing. Many saw parallels between the treatment of women within the universe of the show and President Trump's alleged history of abusive behavior.

One might expect, Margaret Atwood, the author of the source material—the 1985 novel of the same name—would be considered something of a feminist hero. But now Atwood must counter charges that she is actually a "bad feminist," because she thinks the University of British Columbia denied due process to a male professor accused of sexual misconduct.

"And now, it seems, I am conducting a War on Women, like the misogynistic, rape-enabling Bad Feminist that I am," wrote Atwood in an op-ed for The Globe and Mail.

http://reason.com/blog/2018/01/14/handmaids-tale-margaret-atwood-feminism
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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:26 am

Gotta love the fact that the so-called Resistors think a show that went into production in 2016 (when every pundit except the smart ones like myself thought Clinton would win), based on a book from the 80's, is in fact some sort of allegory for the Trump dictatorship; the sort of dictatorships where opposition parties can shut down the Government, no less. Trump is, of course, just about the least religious Republican figurehead in decades.

One wonders how we'll look back at this era of hysterics when all is said and done.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:07 pm

I don't think the point about "The Handmaid's Tale" is that it was literally made as a reaction to Trump.
It's more about the timing of the show's release making sense in terms of the topics that dominate the news cycle today.
I agree that Trump isn't very religious. The kind of ideologues as described in Atwood's novel are more in line with the type of man that Vice-President Mike Pence appears to be.

In any case, I thought "The Handmaid's Tale" adaptation was ridiculously overrated. After a strong start (the first three episodes) it soon devolves into mediocrity.

The best and cleverest Atwood adaptation this year was "Alias Grace", which I would warmly recommend to anyone.

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CJB
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:31 pm

I thought Handmaid's Tale was decent, but certainly agree that it started stronger than it finished.

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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:20 am

I think this is a generational thing more than anything. Or to put it another way, fuck off, snowflakes. As CJB suggested upthread, Germaine Greer’s recent take is surprisingly rational:

Quote :
“If you spread your legs because [Harvey Weinstein] said 'be nice to me and I'll give you a job in a movie' then I'm afraid that's tantamount to consent, and it's too late now to start whingeing.”

However, my favourite Greer comment remains her blunt, "Women are fat-arsed creatures”.  Keira ‘flat as a plank’ Knightley apart, who could argue with that?

http://www.smh.com.au/world/germaine-greer-challenges-metoo-campaign-20180121-h0lpra.html
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:47 am

But Greer's comment is only about a subsection of what he stands accused of.
If his supposed crimes were limited to "If you spread your legs then I'll get you an Oscar nomination", I'd mostly agree with her.

I think the one thing she is ignoring is experience. It's one thing for an experienced actress to make the conscious decision. It's another for him to spring the same offer onto a young actress and create the perception that this is the only manner in which she will be allowed to work in his town.

Then there is another type of behavior that he stands accused of which, if the accusers' accounts are accurate, is nothing short of rape.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:04 am

Well, of course, many years ago Greer herself was accused of rape by the late John Peel.
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Salomé
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:36 am

Erica Ambler wrote:
Well, of course, many years ago Greer herself was accused of rape by the late John Peel.

She was? I had never heard that story before.
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Erica Ambler
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywoodies.   Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:43 am

It's all out there. Germaine claims Peel gave her the clap.  Peel is probably lucky to be dead as he was into underage girls; even his first wife was 15.
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