TLD Ending

I absolutely adore the ending. The more romantic approach, the clinch is more classically done a’la adventure stories or FRWL and effectively completes the relationship arc built across the entire film-and dovetails right into one of Barry’s best emotional themes getting its end title song rendition which is the single most underrated song in the series-and done over a shot of the ornate hall at night with the lights turned on suggesting such exquisite taste and style-and then to top it all off there is the final end credit frame that floats up perfectly with the music timing showing the pair of matching Martini glasses with JB will return and the EON paragraph...I love that moment so much that for me it is the best end title credit in the entire series with OHMSS and LALD. By that I don’t mean ending, or end credits but the actual chosen moment to place the EON credit with the locales traveled to and the will return line.
Geez I could write a whole book on the end credits of the series.

Does anyone else feel similarly?

I haven't given much thought to the moment chosen for the Eon credit, but I do like how TLD ends with the martinis and If There Was a Man. Like the rest of TLD, it's an beautifully crafted moment.

I've been thinking recently about the first time I discovered TLD and how I played it time and time again for weeks (watched it twice in one weekend), and rushed out to buy The Living Daylights short story and attempted to read it but was so young I didn't understand it-- but it formed part of my new, scarce Bond collection. I seem to forget this when placing TLD in my ranking. Used to be no.2 for me.

Yes, it's quite a nice ending. More romantic and subtle than, say, "How d'you like cumming for Christmas" or whatever. Such was the AIDS scare.

HAH! You know that being said cheekily in that manner would've probably been preferable to the TWINE line-but at least it wasn't so painful like Brosnan's last moment: "I'm sooo good" "Especially when you're baad." Jinx makes random noise. UGH!
Mankiewicz knew how to make the coming line work because when used in TMWTGG it is a proper throwaway and one of his super fast you don't notice at first lines that are knowing laughs not groan inducing laughs.

Indeed it's the romance of the ending and that it perfectly summates the film even with a silly attempt at humor with Kamran suddenly showing up in full regalia with armed guards not being able to go off kilter. Had that moment appeared in another film it would have likely been played up too much.
Which leads me to how I used to feel the Bond being absent and Kara being hurt was too cliched, too forced to give a classical romantic clinch Hollywood ending-until I suddenly realized why question it when it works and the performers are so believable-and then I realized like a dolt that Bond was still wrapping up Whitaker so M would think he was on duty. Which then further shows how Tim played Bond as an actual emotional being who would absolutely not miss Kara's grand performance after all they had been through. And the way this scene is done is so genuine, so beautifully crafted and completely earned that it represents to me what is gone today. I feel it's the better rendering of the standard GF ending with Bond and lass about to frolic in secret. I say standard GF ending because the DN ending has wonderful charm, whimsy, humor, wit and style whereas the GF ending is a classy stylish but simpler cap ending that has been re-used over and over.

On reflection LTK ends similarly romantic and overcomes what would be a cliche leading to a clinch moment with Tim jumping off the roof to take a swim. Heck I even like the silly winking fish...but then comes the worst song in the original series though the music fits the pool makeout session.

Yeah I've always noticed the EON credit being special because of the typeface and usually coming at the end or beginning. Most of the time its perfectly placed but then others they seem to have been "ah just put it in somewhere". It should be at the end with the Will Return tag and never at the beginning unless you're talking about the original films there it was with THE END card.

I'll also admit I still want that Phillips keyfinder. TLD is the reason I started trying to whistle as a kid and still try whilst failing miserably except for the first three bars of Rule Britannia.

Hmm I feel the LTK ending is about as cheesy as it gets in the Bond canon...

D' you think the winking fish was intended as a fourth-wall break? If so, seems a bit of an odd choice given LTK's overall tone.

Doubtful. 

The winking fish doesn't bother me. It's Pam's personality transplant and Bond's sentimentality that places the end of LTK into the lower echelons of Bond endings, if there ever was a category.

FieldsMan wrote:

Doubtful. 

The winking fish doesn't bother me. It's Pam's personality transplant and Bond's sentimentality that places the end of LTK into the lower echelons of Bond endings, if there ever was a category.

What do you mean by "transplant"? Could you elaborate please?

I agree that the "break" already occurs with LTK (and thus earlier than GE). I still think that the ending of LTK is a failed attempt at feminism. Why chose two so different and yet SO stereotypical archetypes of women and let the "not so feminine" version win if it was not to appease the feminists? And it doesn't even work, at least not for me. That kind of ruins the whole ending.
Actually, I think that TLD is more cheesy, but in a good way of being cheesy. LTK is too forced, too wanted, too scripted. They just cannot sell that story to me and make it believable. Especially not as a cheesy romance (that being the "cheesy" we're talking about?)

HGTB wrote:

Which then further shows how Tim played Bond as an actual emotional being who would absolutely not miss Kara's grand performance after all they had been through. And the way this scene is done is so genuine, so beautifully crafted and completely earned that it represents to me what is gone today.

Agreed. The relationship between Bond and Kara is special, but after all, Bond has compromised his orders to save her. "Trigger" has always been special and they have managed quite quell to translate that unto the screen. From the whole pantheon of Bond girls, "Trigger" is one of the most beloved and most special. Bond has not even talked to her and still he decides to save her life. AND he might just have ended his career because of that. BTW, why have we skipped my favourite short story?

Kath wrote:

I still think that the ending of LTK is a failed attempt at feminism. Why chose two so different and yet SO stereotypical archetypes of women and let the "not so feminine" version win if it was not to appease the feminists?

I dunno if Pam was the winner there. Doesn't every woman dream of becoming the plaything of a South American dictator?

I adore everything about TLD, even the deleted scenes. It's a Top 3 pick for me. Now I need to go play the fucking theme.

Kath wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

Doubtful. 

The winking fish doesn't bother me. It's Pam's personality transplant and Bond's sentimentality that places the end of LTK into the lower echelons of Bond endings, if there ever was a category.

What do you mean by "transplant"? Could you elaborate please?

The fact that is presented as her own, capable woman without needing Bond's protection or care for his opinion, but suddenly at the end she's a school girl with a crush.

FieldsMan wrote:

Kath wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

Doubtful. 

The winking fish doesn't bother me. It's Pam's personality transplant and Bond's sentimentality that places the end of LTK into the lower echelons of Bond endings, if there ever was a category.

What do you mean by "transplant"? Could you elaborate please?

The fact that is presented as her own, capable woman without needing Bond's protection or care for his opinion, but suddenly at the end she's a school girl with a crush.

Thanks. I am actually not sure if I agree with you. On the one hand, that's most likely why it does not work for me. So, she's not the "less feminine" version, after all. I hate it so much when she says: "But he would never want a girl like me" which ruins everything they have built up for this character before. So, she's tough and strong with a low self-esteem and a healthy amount of self-loathing. And, most of all, she envies the all feminine competitor. She's tough and strong but secretly wants to be passive and pretty. On the other hand, I think that this is her character. She's a strong woman but feels intimidated by beauty ideals. That's when the facade crumbles. But then, why would Bond want a girl that neither needs his protection nor cares for his opinion? They have to break the story-line of the strong independent woman here.
Yet, I am sorry to say that this is not as unlikely as it looks. The need to be the prettiest girl is still predominant in many female minds.(There are enough magazines with articles about beauty, fashion, and hairdos to proof this. All to be copied easily at home, of course. Ever spent an evening with women who constantly talk about clothes and shoes?)

Kath wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

Kath wrote:

FieldsMan wrote:

Doubtful. 

The winking fish doesn't bother me. It's Pam's personality transplant and Bond's sentimentality that places the end of LTK into the lower echelons of Bond endings, if there ever was a category.

What do you mean by "transplant"? Could you elaborate please?

The fact that is presented as her own, capable woman without needing Bond's protection or care for his opinion, but suddenly at the end she's a school girl with a crush.

Thanks. I am actually not sure if I agree with you. 

Why am I not surprised? 

I guess for me, there isn't really an inciting incident that prompts this kind of reaction at the end (unless we count the scene between Pam, Lupe and Q in the hotel room: "You don't understand, he stayed with me last night"). 

Regardless, we're deviating from HTGB's topic. 

https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-Living-Daylights/pages/The-Living-Daylights-882.htm

I guess I started the derailing. Though it is an apt comparison since the romance that was hard earned in TLD isn't quite there in LTK-despite having another well rounded female character with a good developed relation to 007.

The problem I think is in the writing and stereotypical-ness that almost would be wince inducing if not for how well Tim plays it. This also goes for Pam's jealousy earlier on coming out as sitcom-esque which doesn't fit with everything else-but that is saved by being a reveal of her truer affections and by Desmond Lewellyn who elevates every scene he is ever in. What saves the finale is the mirroring of their initial coupling with the lines now being reversed. That is great writing-not the cliched setup before it.

Again it is another example I think of how the writing in LTK lets the film down since Wilson had to finish it solo as Maibaum was kept out due to the writer's strike. (Not to say anything against the legendary MGW-but to lose your co-writer right after starting can't be easy at all) THAT to me is the key difference in Dalton's films and why TLD is not only the better film but the last full entry of the original series; LTK is an experiment in doing something unconventional but still maintaining the character and if anyone was the brain of the series it was Richard Maibaum.

I'd still say the line reversal in the ending is a little Hollywood and not particularly great writing. I imagine if Eon were given the time, the issues with Pam in the second half of the film would have been ironed out by Maibaum or another writer.

hegottheboot wrote:

The problem I think is in the writing and stereotypical-ness that almost would be wince inducing if not for how well Tim plays it.

Again it is another example I think of how the writing in LTK lets the film down since Wilson had to finish it solo as Maibaum was kept out due to the writer's strike. (Not to say anything against the legendary MGW-but to lose your co-writer right after starting can't be easy at all) THAT to me is the key difference in Dalton's films and why TLD is not only the better film but the last full entry of the original series; LTK is an experiment in doing something unconventional but still maintaining the character and if anyone was the brain of the series it was Richard Maibaum.

Agreed. I mean, Bond losing his licence in the middle of the film (which kind of ends his identity as "Bond" as we know it) is definitely unconventional. Next comes his personal quest for revenge. The only surprise is that he does not get his licence back.

Maybe had their not been the problems after LTK, Bond would've gotten his licence back (or worked a way to getting it back) in film after. Would've given Goldeneye or whatever a third Dalton film would've been a good edge.

Hilly KCMG wrote:

Maybe had their not been the problems after LTK, Bond would've gotten his licence back (or worked a way to getting it back) in film after. Would've given Goldeneye or whatever a third Dalton film would've been a good edge.

Yes, it is extremely likely that he would have worked his way back. Now he's retired with Pam, which is a somewhat weird ending...
(Because what bothers me even more is Bond's disinterest in Pam throughout the film. I mean, Pam takes some serious risks while helping him, IIRC, which makes it way less surprising than Bond's sudden strong emotions for her. I mean, that look on his face before he jumps into the swimming pool...Pam is not the only problem and, in my opinion, she is not the main problem, either. If you run after a woman and jump into a swimming pool that implies some strong emotions on your side and I cannot recall to ever have seen any of that sort before. And, what is even more, Bond is not that kind of man. Even Tracy is more of a "right match" to him than the love of his life. It would be kind of nice / all right so marry Vesper. We get very detailed glimpses into his thoughts and Bond is not passionate in that way. He simply wouldn't run, literally, after a woman. And not one like Pam, sorry to say that. What annoys me even more because it is a DALTON film after all. He has known better; I am sure of that. Why did he give in here and allow for the distortion of the literary Bond?)

Doesn't chirpy old Felix say "M called! He may have a job for you!" ? Not sure Dalton Bond earning his stripes again would have worked after LTK.

Nor do I buy Bond and Pam settling down together behind a white picket fence, with three boys and a dog.

Pam was ready, though, with that Can I Speak To The Manager haircut.

FieldsMan wrote:

Doesn't chirpy old Felix say "M called! He may have a job for you!" ? Not sure Dalton Bond earning his stripes again would have worked after LTK.

Nor do I buy Bond and Pam settling down together behind a white picket fence, with three boys and a dog.

Since Bond has lost his double-O status that sounds like paperwork and it only gets him closer to the fence, the doggy, and the three kids...
Whether you buy it or not, that is what the ending implies since they casted a new lead actor for the sequel.

Doubtful. 

And since Dalton was going to return for a third Bond film, I don't think it is what the ending implies.

If real world paperwork existed in Bondworld, I'm pretty sure 007 would've literally drowned in it long before LTK. No, I mean actually drowned. He would've literally been crushed to death by a mountain of compliance docs like Dr No and the bird shit.

Drowned or crushed to death, Commander? The devil's in the details.

I'll leave that one to the coroner.