Last Bond Movie You Watched.

Agree that TMWTGG is the closest Rog got to the literary character (well, minus the bits with JW and the karate girls etc.)

I think the literary character is indeed very English, notwithstanding Fleming retroactively making him half-Scottish ethnically after the film series began. Wonder how Connery felt saying "The things I do for England..."

Not sure in which novel it is (possibly one of the Gardners), but there's a bit in one of them where Bond turns down tea. When Moneypenny comments that that's not very English of him, he replies 'I'd sooner drink mud. Besides, I'm half-Scots half-Swiss'.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Not sure in which novel it is (possibly one of the Gardners), but there's a bit in one of them where Bond turns down tea. When Moneypenny comments that that's not very English of him, he replies 'I'd sooner drink mud. Besides, I'm half-Scots half-Swiss'.  

I believe it was in MR where Bond refers to tea as "a cup of mud" and declares that it was responsible for the downfall of the British Empire.

Goldfinger, apparently -

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6621412-i-don-t-drink-tea-i-hate-it-it-s-mud-moreover

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Somerset,

Delightful and provocative thoughts, as always.  

I agree wholeheartedly that Rog is easily the most quintessentially English Bond. Then, too, the only competition is Dalton and Craig. (The others are not English, per se.) But is Fleming's Bond more English than the filmic character? I daresay he probably is, and therefore you are correct that Rog, in that sense, is more Flemingesque than any of the other actors. This is a shrewd and orginal observation on your part.

I also agree on the merits of Gun's score. Now while the title track is fairly dreadful, Barry manages to salvage something from it and make excellent use of it in the score.

Regarding MR, I've never had a problem with the space scenes. The revelation of Drax's "floating stud farm" is arguably one of the most breathtaking moments in all of Bondom. The section I rather dislike is the bit in Rio where Bond and Jaws duke it out on the cable car and the ambulance section. But with the Q scene, and Bond on the Amazoco, MR picks up again mightily and basically sustains the pace to the final frame as he attempts reentry.

I fully understand the Bond fan's criticism of MR, but I find it hard to imagine him actually disliking the film.

it's be far one of my favorites for repeat viewings and beautiful on the eyes

agree, love Moonraker

oh yeah I was digging through some old boxes of my dads here yesterday and found three novels, The Man With The Golden Gun, On Her Majesty's Secret Service and The Spy Who Loved Me

Sarai wrote:

oh yeah I was digging through some old boxes of my dads here yesterday and found three novels, The Man With The Golden Gun, On Her Majesty's Secret Service and The Spy Who Loved Me

Read them! OHMSS is one of the very best, and Spy one of the more interesting and better written of the lot. Because you're a babe, you'll find it doubly interesting.

I'm not sure what he is going for here. That Viv chic is a bit of a bimbo, she talks a lot and doesn't say anything of interest. Then starts getting all Alanis Morissette with the loser in the theatre before sex in a field. Another guy then we are off for an abortion. None of the men are likeable but neither is she and if that's the point it's not going far enough. Like was the loss of virginity and sexual relationships supposed to have a Catherine Breillat feel to it? If it is supposed to be that way it's a total fail and if not why bother writing it? It's boring at best and 100 pages of reading just to get to this point.
 I don't see any great style here in the writing. It in no way feels up to even Anne Rice standards.

The last I had read there were two very generic baddies holding her hostage and zero sense of menace in the writing. You don't feel it when she tries to escape. I feel like it's the worst thing I have read in my life so far, the blandest but I know this was a departure for him so I will finish it and start OHMSS.

Sarai wrote:

I'm not sure what he is going for here. That Viv chic is a bit of a bimbo, she talks a lot and doesn't say anything of interest. Then starts getting all Alanis Morissette with the loser in the theatre before sex in a field. Another guy then we are off for an abortion. None of the men are likeable but neither is she and if that's the point it's not going far enough. Like was the loss of virginity and sexual relationships supposed to have a Catherine Breillat feel to it? If it is supposed to be that way it's a total fail and if not why bother writing it? It's boring at best and 100 pages of reading just to get to this point.
 I don't see any great style here in the writing. It in no way feels up to even Anne Rice standards.

The last I had read there were two very generic baddies holding her hostage and zero sense of menace in the writing. You don't feel it when she tries to escape. I feel like it's the worst thing I have read in my life so far, the blandest but I know this was a departure for him so I will finish it and start OHMSS.

Your references to Morissette and Breillat are completely foreign to me, so I have no comment on what you're saying about Viv and her boy troubles. However, I disagree entirely with your criticism of Fleming's writing. His depiction of the storm hitting Dreamy Pines is a masterpiece of description, and the anthropomophization of nature brilliant. And there are other sections of Spy that almost measure up to this.

As for the "generic" baddies (Sluggsy and Horror), I think the word you're looking for is stereotyped because they are the very opposite of generic. And, as somebody who appreciates stereotype as generally a pretty accurate reflection of reality, I have no problem with it. Sluggsy Morant, incidentally, is one of Fleming's greatest creations. If I had a son, I'd name him Sluggsy.

"Your references to Morissette and Breillat are completely foreign to me, so I have no comment on what you're saying about Viv and her boy troubles"

I'm saying it doesn't add up to anything so why is he making us read 100 pages about it? It must be intended to have some emotional impact but it all falls flat. The men are all lecherous but in such a bland fashion and there is no reason to care about her. No depth to any of them.

" If I had a son, I'd name him Sluggsy."

lol I really believe you would.

With Golden Gun and Spy, you've got Bond novels that bear scant resemblance to the movies that bear their names (Spy especially). But with OHMSS, you've got one of the closest.

Sarai wrote:

"Your references to Morissette and Breillat are completely foreign to me, so I have no comment on what you're saying about Viv and her boy troubles"

I'm saying it doesn't add up to anything so why is he making us read 100 pages about it? It must be intended to have some emotional impact but it all falls flat. The men are all lecherous but in such a bland fashion and there is no reason to care about her. No depth to any of them.

" If I had a son, I'd name him Sluggsy."

lol  I really believe you would.

I almost feel we've read different books. I thought the character development of Viv, Derek and Kurt was excellent. All were truly distinct human beings. And I truly pitied Viv while pretty much loathing the two bastards, particularly Kurt.

Back from For Your Eyes Only.

Well, again, Moore on the big screen is where it's at. Swear I had that couple near me again who managed to sniff/laugh at random things which tonight included Bond running up the steps to get Locque.

But it's funny noticing little things. Like when Bond has taken control of the helicopter you see the pilot as it flies by 'Blofeld' is wearing headphones whilst Bond isn't. Or that Melina seems to be smothering a laugh just after the motorcyclist goes through the flower shop window. Plus the chap standing next to Bond in the ski lift I'm sure I've seen in another Bond, maybe Octopussy -white haired extra.

Still a good film in my book and again, makes a change me leaving a Bond film bouncing on the heels.

Even after sitting through interminably bad adverts and trailers.

Sarai wrote:

I'm not sure what he is going for here. That Viv chic is a bit of a bimbo, she talks a lot and doesn't say anything of interest. Then starts getting all Alanis Morissette with the loser in the theatre before sex in a field. Another guy then we are off for an abortion. None of the men are likeable but neither is she and if that's the point it's not going far enough. Like was the loss of virginity and sexual relationships supposed to have a Catherine Breillat feel to it? If it is supposed to be that way it's a total fail and if not why bother writing it? It's boring at best and 100 pages of reading just to get to this point.
 I don't see any great style here in the writing. It in no way feels up to even Anne Rice standards.

The last I had read there were two very generic baddies holding her hostage and zero sense of menace in the writing. You don't feel it when she tries to escape. I feel like it's the worst thing I have read in my life so far, the blandest but I know this was a departure for him so I will finish it and start OHMSS.

Right with you on this one. I have tried to read it twice -- decades apart -- and had to skip to get to the Bond part, which really isn't any good either.

I've never even owned it -- I bought all of the others for 15cents apiece at Recycled Books in San Jose in 1976, but I had previously borrowed copies from a friend who was helping make our Super-8 Bond parody, so I had read them all before (or in the case of Spy, failed to complete reading.)

I've read all of the other Fleming Bonds at least ten times apiece, and that is a very conservative estimate, and I actually really liked nearly all of them a lot, even TMWTGG, which sometimes makes me feel like Kingsley Amis did more than just touch it up. (plus Bond saying 'Golly, what fun!' which just always makes me think of Jim Nabors.) I've reread THUNDERBALL every spring since 2015, have no idea why unless it is 'cardboard hero' that draws me back, but as soon as we start getting some sun again, a copy goes into my glove compartment once more.

OHMSS is absolutely sensational, more than makes up for SPY.

QoS last night. Odd that the film begins with, hands down, the worst piece of "music" in all of Bond, and concludes with one of the very best (Crawl, End Crawl). Deserves a better title, though.

PS--The PTS is probably the worst of them all. Nothing more than a car chase, and not a particularly good one at that.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Sarai wrote:

"Your references to Morissette and Breillat are completely foreign to me, so I have no comment on what you're saying about Viv and her boy troubles"

I'm saying it doesn't add up to anything so why is he making us read 100 pages about it? It must be intended to have some emotional impact but it all falls flat. The men are all lecherous but in such a bland fashion and there is no reason to care about her. No depth to any of them.

" If I had a son, I'd name him Sluggsy."

lol  I really believe you would.

I almost feel we've read different books. I thought the character development of Viv, Derek and Kurt was excellent. All were truly distinct human beings. And I truly pitied Viv while pretty much loathing the two bastards, particularly Kurt.

We have never been sure we even live on the same planet as each other so this isn't surprising. I don't know if I am in any way Flemings target audience here but I would assume I'm not. Didn't he describe it as fantasy for red blooded males? The whole idea that he is what men dream of being and women dream being with isn't ever going to apply to me. So if I don't tune into it or really 'get it' that would make sense. I am going to read them though and I just found a copy of Casino Royale too.

trevanian wrote:

Sarai wrote:

I'm not sure what he is going for here. That Viv chic is a bit of a bimbo, she talks a lot and doesn't say anything of interest. Then starts getting all Alanis Morissette with the loser in the theatre before sex in a field. Another guy then we are off for an abortion. None of the men are likeable but neither is she and if that's the point it's not going far enough. Like was the loss of virginity and sexual relationships supposed to have a Catherine Breillat feel to it? If it is supposed to be that way it's a total fail and if not why bother writing it? It's boring at best and 100 pages of reading just to get to this point.
 I don't see any great style here in the writing. It in no way feels up to even Anne Rice standards.

The last I had read there were two very generic baddies holding her hostage and zero sense of menace in the writing. You don't feel it when she tries to escape. I feel like it's the worst thing I have read in my life so far, the blandest but I know this was a departure for him so I will finish it and start OHMSS.

Right with you on this one. I have tried to read it twice -- decades apart -- and had to skip to get to the Bond part, which really isn't any good either.

I've never even owned it -- I bought all of the others for 15cents apiece at Recycled Books in San Jose in 1976, but I had previously borrowed copies from a friend who was helping make our Super-8 Bond parody, so I had read them all before (or in the case of Spy, failed to complete reading.)

I've read all of the other Fleming Bonds at least ten times apiece, and that is a very conservative estimate, and I actually really liked nearly all of them a lot, even TMWTGG, which sometimes makes me feel like Kingsley Amis did more than just touch it up. (plus Bond saying 'Golly, what fun!' which just always makes me think of Jim Nabors.) I've reread THUNDERBALL every spring since 2015, have no idea why unless it is 'cardboard hero' that draws me back, but as soon as we start getting some sun again, a copy goes into my glove compartment once more.

OHMSS is absolutely sensational, more than makes up for SPY.

I'm just over half way through OHMSS and it doesn't even seem like the same writer. It took me quite a few pages before I realized I was picturing Connery the whole time.

PK wrote:

Now while the title track is fairly dreadful, Barry manages to salvage something from it and make excellent use of it in the score.

I agree. I can’t even pinpoint exactly what it is about the song that doesn’t work. Is it Lulu? The lyrics? Somehow it didn’t gel but Barry nails its use instrumentally.

Hilly wrote:

Still a good film in my book and again, makes a change me leaving a Bond film bouncing on the heels.

I think for anyone who was disappointed in NTTD and has had a waning taste for Bond hit the tastebuds (“with an acid shock”) in the aftermath these screenings must be just the ticket.

Somerset wrote:

Hilly wrote:

Still a good film in my book and again, makes a change me leaving a Bond film bouncing on the heels.

I think for anyone who was disappointed in NTTD and has had a waning taste for Bond hit the tastebuds (“with an acid shock”) in the aftermath these screenings must be just the ticket.

It should. I watched Thunderball at home the same day and completely forgot about NTTD.It just can't stand up in any way. that's one huge benefit to the Craig films being so weak and not feeling like Bond

Somerset wrote:

PK wrote:

Now while the title track is fairly dreadful, Barry manages to salvage something from it and make excellent use of it in the score.

I agree. I can’t even pinpoint exactly what it is about the song that doesn’t work. Is it Lulu? The lyrics? Somehow it didn’t gel but Barry nails its use instrumentally.

The lyrics are laughably bad. So bad they're almost good. Almost. And that damned guitar. Just a bunch of screeching and caterwauling. Very little musicality. I thought Lulu was okay. She was given very little with which to work.

Except for the first time I heard it, I've always gotten a kick out of GOLDEN GUN's title song. It has a nice overproduced feel, sort of ahead of the curve for a lot of 70s rock -- Jeff Wayne's WAR OF THE WORLDS, Kansas' BORNE ON WINGS OF STELLE, much of BOSTON, EWG's FRANKENSTEIN, all my faves -- in that way.

Plus it has that extra bonus lyric at the end of the film about 'sleep well my dear/no need to fear/james bond is HEEEERE!' followed by musical swagger beats that you'd expect would play well against Moore smugly striding up to camera. To me that kind of points up the self-mocking element in the Moore era that does play well for me, much as the 'greatest of human achievements' announcement as Bond comes into view in SPY.

Outside of Adam, Barry and Meddings, there isn't a whole lot for me to admire about Moore-era Bond, but it does somehow still have its moments -- which puts it ahead of Craig by a considerable margin. Maybe it is because despite weird detours, it manages to deliver Bond-feel situations that offset the JW Pepper and drop rock on foot detours into Burt Reynolds or Laurel&Hardy territory.

My Bondathon slouches onwards slowly.

After TMWTGG I decided to watch the 80s films straight through chronologically.

This was somewhat instructive insofar that it reinforced my view of there being less distinction between the Dalton era and the late Moore period than perhaps fandom purports. AVTAK prefigures LTK more than TLD.

The 80s films seem all of a piece to me, driven primarily by the Cubby/Wilson producing partnership, the Maibaum/Wilson writing partnership, and both those partnerships interacting with Glen as director.

All the films have the same mission statement: try and scrape up all the non-novel Fleming leftovers and/or his short stories and weave them into coherent narrative constructed around several stunt set pieces. These films harken back to the literary source but they also all feature the same kind of lame non-humor humor gags or gag situational stuff (which I wouldn’t have any other way, mind you) that kind of puts a skin around all five of them even in spite of the tonal appeal to the literary source.

My favorite remains AVTAK. I love Stacy. Rog gives his best post-MR performance (St. John Smythe is a character is his own right). Barry’s best 80s tracks. Zeitgeist apex: Duran Duran, Grace Jones, microchips, neon titles. And I like that an older Rog gets thrown into the mix with all that contemporary stuff at the end of his road while having to confront this monster offspring of the Nazis — like he thought he’d done and dusted this shit at the start of his service to Britain and now here it is come back again at the end!

It may well be the case, Somerset, that AVTAK is more of its time than any other Bond film. Some people will dismissively term it dated. I prefer to think of it as a time capsule, and given my historical inclinations, this is a compliment rather than a condemnation.

I enjoy the "time capsule" aspect of films as well.

Harder to escape in the 80's, I suspect. Things haven been written about the phenomenon of how style and fashion (and I suppose tech) had a distinctiveness in past decades vs. today's social media age where no trend lasts long enough to become a proper trend. I mean it's easier to distinguish between the 60's, 70's, 80's and even the 90's as compared to, say, the 2010s and 20s.

Skyfall is a decade old but looks like it could've been made today. By contrast, CR "looks" distinctive from GE, GE from AVTAK, AVTAK from TMWTGG etc.