Firefly / Serenity (2002/2005)

"Out of Gas"

Another great one.

"Ariel"

Outstanding. One of the better episodes in my book. Love the Hands of Blue.

I'll stick up for Sharky here, as I know where he's coming from; there is something some of us find verry offputting about Whedon's work.

Safari Suit wrote:

I'll stick up for Sharky here, as I know where he's coming from; there is something some of us find verry offputting about Whedon's work.

I had that with Dollhouse, it was awefull imho.

However on the subject of Firefly I don't see what is wrong: western and scifi in one show, excellently delivered.

saint mark wrote:

However on the subject of Firefly I don't see what is wrong: western and scifi in one show, excellently delivered.

It''s less the subject and more the way it's handled.

What's wrong with the way it's handled?

How so?

It's hard to put my finger on, but it's too self-knowing, in a "hehe, aren't I clever?" sort of way. i dislike it for the same reasons I dislike HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER.

I can get the self-knowing thing, it was more apparent in his Buffyverse. However I think it's one of Whedon's charms and works for most of his stuff.

The comparison between Firefly and how I met your mother seems a bit absurd to me...

I get really picky about my science in SF ... and FF just doesn't have any (what IS there is almost counterscience.) But this is the exception that proves the rule, that I let the show skate on this, even though a lot of this stuff makes me flinch (I watched the whole series several times before hearing anything about it ALL being in one solar system and nobody having FTL ... it might not have been till SERENITY that this was made clear, in fact.)

I can get what Sharky is saying, but I don't view it as a big negative on FIREFLY. It's a fun show by and for people who like this sorta thing.

"War Stories"

It's entertaining.

Great: "Serenity"; "Our Mrs. Reynolds"; "Out of Gas"; "Ariel"
Good: "The Train Job"; "Shindig"; "War Stories"
OK: "Safe"; "Jaynestown"
So so: "Bushwhacked"

I think by and large Sharky is bothered by self-indulgence.

I agree with trevanian that I found it somewhat confusing on how the fact that it was all one solar system wasn't clarified until the movie, I mean it fits with the show retroactively, but as a sci-fi nerd I was definitely confused about that until the movie came out.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

I think by and large Sharky is bothered by self-indulgence.

I agree with trevanian that I found it somewhat confusing on how the fact that it was all one solar system wasn't clarified until the movie, I mean it fits with the show retroactively, but as a sci-fi nerd I was definitely confused about that until the movie came out.

The same goes for nuBSG. Always wondered why they didn't explore space if they had the tech. Or was that part of the treaty with the toasters?

"Trash"

Treasure.

It probably had something to do with 12 inhabitable planets constantly squabbling amongst themselves. At the end of the day, in the kind of "realistic" sci-fi scenario Moore created for nuBSG, space exploration isn't exactly the most economic decision.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

It probably had something to do with 12 inhabitable planets constantly squabbling amongst themselves. At the end of the day, in the kind of "realistic" sci-fi scenario Moore created for nuBSG, space exploration isn't exactly the most economic decision.

Hey, that sounds familiar.

"The Message"

Very good, affecting in places. Like the Fed guy. He would have been cool to see again.

Great: "Serenity"; "Our Mrs. Reynolds"; "Out of Gas"; "Ariel"
Good: "The Train Job"; "Shindig"; "War Stories"; "Trash"; "The Message"
OK: "Safe"; "Jaynestown"
So so: "Bushwhacked"

"Heart of Gold"

A little better than I remembered. It's got two of my favorite lines from the series.

"Man, my John Thomas is gonna pop off and fly around the room, there's so much tasty here."

"Were I unwed, I would take you in a manly fashion."

The best thing about the episode to me is the character of Nandi. I think Inara should have been somewhere between the Inara we have and Nandi. Not as independent as Nandi, but closer in age and experience. Hell, Inara seems like a non-entity here. I just think they didn't cast her well, to be honest. Everyone else fits their role like a glove, but not so much Morena Baccarin. Melinda Clarke is very sexy as Nandi. So yeah, Inara pretty much dissapears here. I just don't see what Mal sees in her. I get it from a writing standpoint, but the casting is all wrong and there is zero chemisty. Mal and Nandi? i could totally see that.

Great: "Serenity"; "Our Mrs. Reynolds"; "Out of Gas"; "Ariel"
Good: "The Train Job"; "Shindig"; "War Stories"; "Trash"; "The Message"
OK: "Safe"; "Jaynestown"; "Heart of Gold"
So so: "Bushwhacked"

Yes, Mal and Inara was a non-starter and would've always remained a non-starter for that reason.

Whedon was originally going to cast an older actress (Rebecca Gayheart) in the Inara role and only gave the role to Baccarin at the last moment. I think she does alright but you aren't the only one who considers her the weakest link.

Mind you, I'm pretty sure Gayheart wouldn't have done much better. Really her age being closer to Nathan Fillion's is the only thing she had going for her when compared to Baccarin.

I still don't understand the "How I met your mother" comparison.

I'm not a fan of the aforementioned sitcom and as such haven't see too many episodes of it, but I doubt if it had as much great dialogue in its entire run than Firefly had in one of its better entries (say "Objects in Space").

I'm sure our appraisal of Firefly is helped by the fact that it had a very short run and thus never got the chance to turn stale and seem unoriginal. But within their genre, the fourteen episodes Whedon and co produced are fantastic entertainment and are filled with genuinely rich characters.

Salomé wrote:

I'm sure our appraisal of Firefly is helped by the fact that it had a very short run and thus never got the chance to turn stale and seem unoriginal.

Good point, Oppers. Kind of like stars who die young.

I don't praise FIREFLY for being short lived; I think it could have gotten better. Whedon had a great set up, and the show seems to be stuck in the feeling of many first seasons (that's not a criticism, though).

I think of DEEP SPACE NINE. S1 is without a doubt it's weakest season as it was finding it's legs. But it had a great set up and did great things with it. I view FIREFLY the same way, but it was tragically cut short. There was fuel for many stories there. The Simon/Kaylee will-they/won't-they thing was reaching it's end, I will say that.

I'd love to have seen where they would have taken River, and how things would have gone with the Alliance. Perhaps another civil war or something, with Mal emerging as some sort of leader.

But Sharky, I think FIREFLY is a pretty absurd target for so much dislike. So what if it's for-geeks-by-geeks. At least it's well done, and handled with care. In a sea of indifferent and incompetent shit, FIREFLY hardly has the makings of a priority target.