[SPOILERS] The Dark Knight Rises (2.0)

Largo's Shark wrote:

Too long, didn't read.

More fool you. Thank you for proving everything I just said in the above post.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Too long, didn't read.

More fool you. Thank you for proving everything I just said in the above post.

You're welcome, now fuck off.

Ironically Nolan's acclaim tends to be that he brings more than just superficial fluff to the summer blockbuster. But personal perception is everything, what resonates for one falls limp for another.

I'll be brutally honest in that a film has to entertain me first and foremost, if it fails to do that I couldn't give a crap about its artistic merits, its noble ambition or its ability to court oscars......but obviously a film that entertains and then informs or incites or raises awareness, or whatever else they can is going to be all the better for that. Even that is largely down to personal perception as here in the case of Nolan and this trilogy I see clear evidence that questions are being raised and the viewer is being entrusted to at least pause for thought on the issues raised. It may not be complex or as deep as the best movie's, but its penetration and perception is very evidently broader than many because of the underlying blockbuster vibe and its refreshingly free of railroading us into one clear answer.

I still get drawn to that dismissive term 'used goods' in White's article, because I actually enjoy Nolan's works as they remind me of films from a 'better' age, rather than be an example of what's wrong today, they strike me as more the intrusion of what was good about the movies gone by...... so for me the term works, I just see it as meaning the exact opposite of the way white uses it.

lachesis wrote:

Ironically Nolan's acclaim tends to be that he brings more than just superficial fluff to the summer blockbuster. But personal perception is everything, what resonates for one falls limp for another.

I'll be brutally honest in that a film has to entertain me first and foremost

Same here, and Nolan's films fail for me first on that basic level (with the exception of maybe INSOMINA). They bore me with their one note.

lachesis wrote:

I still get drawn to that dismissive term 'used goods' in White's article, because I actually enjoy Nolan's works as they remind me of films from a 'better' age.

They do for me as well, but they also remind how better those films were in comparison. Case in point with INCEPTION's reference to OHMSS. I see a messily executed, incoherent, insomnia curing, video game level that kinda sorta resembles a Bond film, or TDK's opening bank robbery with the heist from Michael Mann's heat. Now I'm definitely no fan of Mann, but I've got to admit, the original is one slick sequence. Nolan's just repacking foods scraps, leftovers.

Largo's Shark wrote:

lachesis wrote:

Ironically Nolan's acclaim tends to be that he brings more than just superficial fluff to the summer blockbuster. But personal perception is everything, what resonates for one falls limp for another.

I'll be brutally honest in that a film has to entertain me first and foremost

Same here, and Nolan's films fail for me first on that basic level (with the exception of maybe INSOMINA). They bore me with their one note.

lachesis wrote:

I still get drawn to that dismissive term 'used goods' in White's article, because I actually enjoy Nolan's works as they remind me of films from a 'better' age.

They do for me as well, but they also remind how better those films were in comparison. Case in point with INCEPTION's reference to OHMSS. I see a messily executed, incoherent, insomnia curing, video game level that kinda sorta resembles a Bond film, or TDK's opening bank robbery with the heist from Michael Mann's heat. Now I'm definitely no fan of Mann, but I've got to admit, the original is one slick sequence. Nolan's just repacking foods scraps, leftovers.

It seems we do see the same things but find them working in different directions, which is they way it goes sometimes. Certainly once something entertains I think you inherently cut it more slack or are prepared to give it more credit in other areas, so not hitting that first base makes all the difference. The Heat reference is another good example, I am no fan of Mann myself so the TDK opening was a positive element of that film brought over and integrated into a film I actually enjoyed rather than sloppy seconds it became a part of a meal I enjoyed and as such I didn't begrudge its derivative nature.

What does the opening heist from TDK have to do with HEAT? Besides them both being bank heists, the execution and shot selection is all different. I agree that TDK takes some inspiration from HEAT in the spirit of a sprawling crime drama, but that's it.

Tubes wrote:

What does the opening heist from TDK have to do with HEAT? Besides them both being bank heists, the execution and shot selection is all different.

Not really. Nolan owes everything to Mann, Fincher and Kubrick, and that sequence is a prime example.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Tubes wrote:

What does the opening heist from TDK have to do with HEAT? Besides them both being bank heists, the execution and shot selection is all different.

Not really. Nolan owes everything to Mann, Fincher and Kubrick, and that sequence is a prime example.

Don't forget Malick!

HJackson wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Tubes wrote:

What does the opening heist from TDK have to do with HEAT? Besides them both being bank heists, the execution and shot selection is all different.

Not really. Nolan owes everything to Mann, Fincher and Kubrick, and that sequence is a prime example.

Don't forget Malick!

While we're at it we should probably also remember Louis Lumiere even if he is French.....

So directors are influenced by other directors. In other news, the sun is hot. Fincher was influenced by Ridley Scott and Mann's films are modern versions of the hardboiled crime dramas of the 50's and 70's. All filmmakers mentioned above exercise in style and structure versus substance and you cannot argue against Nolan's virtue and for theirs in the same breath.

I think Nolan is the modern day Spielberg, circa early 1980's, with a string of successful, highly enjoyable hits under his belt. I personally think The Dark Knight triology is the greatest cinematic triology ever.

It pisses all over Star Wars (only the first 2 movies deserve praise), Godfather (only the first 2 movies deserve praise), BTTF (only the first one deserves praise), Indy (only the first one deserves praise, and we forget the 4th flick was ever made).

I cannot think of any other triology series where each movie is arguably better than the last. Nolan has achieved just that.

jet set willy wrote:

I think Nolan is the modern day Spielberg, circa early 1980's.

Minus his masterful direction, sense of humour, warmth, humanism, ethnic pride, Janusz Kaminski, social commentary, spirituality, flair for action, understanding of the human condition, and ear for great music.

Chris Nolan is just a pussified David Fincher.

jet set willy wrote:

I think Nolan is the modern day Spielberg, circa early 1980's, with a string of successful, highly enjoyable hits under his belt. I personally think The Dark Knight triology is the greatest cinematic triology ever.

It pisses all over Star Wars (only the first 2 movies deserve praise), Godfather (only the first 2 movies deserve praise), BTTF (only the first one deserves praise), Indy (only the first one deserves praise, and we forget the 4th flick was ever made).

I cannot think of any other triology series where each movie is arguably better than the last. Nolan has achieved just that.

You could make the argument for LOTR, I'd think. Like Nolan's trilogy, all three installments are fairly strong.

The LOTR trilogy, is a pompous mess. Good music, art direction and some nice grainy cinematography, but that's where it ends.

Largo's Shark wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

I think Nolan is the modern day Spielberg, circa early 1980's.

Minus his masterful direction, sense of humour, warmth, humanism, ethnic pride, Janusz Kaminski, social commentary, spirituality, flair for action, understanding of the human condition, and ear for great music.

Yeah. There's really nothing about Nolan that recalls Spielberg, other than the fact that they'll both be remembered as popcorn directors.

jet set willy wrote:

I think Nolan is the modern day Spielberg, circa early 1980's, with a string of successful, highly enjoyable hits under his belt. I personally think The Dark Knight triology is the greatest cinematic triology ever.

It pisses all over Star Wars (only the first 2 movies deserve praise), Godfather (only the first 2 movies deserve praise), BTTF (only the first one deserves praise), Indy (only the first one deserves praise, and we forget the 4th flick was ever made).

I cannot think of any other triology series where each movie is arguably better than the last. Nolan has achieved just that.

The Toy Story trilogy is better than Nolan's Batman trilogy.

Largo's Shark wrote:

The LOTR trilogy, is a pompous mess. Good music, art direction and some nice grainy cinematography, but that's where it ends.

I gotta say I'm shocked, Sharky. I thought that you for-sure would have preferred LOTR to Nolan's Batman.

dr. strangelove wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

The LOTR trilogy, is a pompous mess. Good music, art direction and some nice grainy cinematography, but that's where it ends.

I gotta say I'm shocked, Sharky. I thought that you for-sure would have preferred LOTR to Nolan's Batman.

I do.

Monday: $19,389,129

OPENING DAY:
The Dark Knight Rises: $75,754,897
The Dark Knight: $74,087,400
Batman Forever: $36,498,400
Batman Returns: $30,671,000
Batman and Robin: $27,806,900
Batman (1989): $26,257,000
Batman Begins: $18,618,000

OPENING WEEKEND:
The Dark Knight: $174,738,000
The Dark Knight Rises: $160,887,295
Batman Forever: $96,104,100
Batman Returns: $87,192,000
Batman: $80,775,500
Batman and Robin: $73,976,300
Batman Begins: $60,228,400

DOMESTIC:
The Dark Knight: $588,314,100
Batman: $498,600,600
Batman Forever: $335,063,500
Batman Returns: $310,753,500
Batman Begins: $253,716,500
Batman and Robin: $185,188,600
The Dark Knight Rises: $180,276,424

I'm not so sure now if Colorado really is affecting TDKR's box office that much. Less tickets are sold, but TDKR is performing almost exactly the same as TDK.

Largo's Shark wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

I think Nolan is the modern day Spielberg, circa early 1980's.

Minus his masterful direction, sense of humour, warmth, humanism, ethnic pride, Janusz Kaminski, social commentary, spirituality, flair for action, understanding of the human condition, and ear for great music.

Chris Nolan is just a pussified David Fincher.

? That's a new one.

I don't get all this social commentary/Jesus stuff, but I would certainly put Spielberg way above Nolan as a craftsman.

As for better trilogies? I prefer the Godfather, Star Wars, and Toy Story trilogies over the Dark Knight flicks. As well as the first three Alien films, which I take as a trilogy. Indy movies are better made.

RAIDERS and THE GODFATHER for sure. Fine examples of each film getting progressively better.

The Godfather trilogy is all-time best IMO. Even part 3, more than a decade later had some heft.

I must say regarding TDKR, Anne Hathway is one sexy Catwoman and she doesn't even call herself Catwoman or have any cats (not that I noticed). She's catburglar. I would support a Catwoman spinoff with Hathaway. She purrs one smart line after another. Unlike Bane, I could actually understand what she was saying, but then I didn't care what Bane was saying most of the time. Her character is real interesting too. But last we saw she's dating the Bat, in sunnier climes, which sets up a potential continuation of the always complicated Bat/Cat romance. I thought TDKR did a good job of bringing out both the Cat's larcenous and altruistic sides

I could see myself sitting through TDKR again. It's a fascinating film to watch. Very engrossing. Entertaining even (shark Razz)

But now that this trilogy is done with, maybe Nolan could park it for a bit, and we could ligthen things up a tad. Not a whole bunch, but the real dark, Dark- Knight-thing has been done, and done well, so maybe its time for a fresher approach. Lots more Anne Hathaway would be nice. And lighten up the villains somewhat. Joker and Bane I think have maxed out the nihilism quotient.

TDKR

Itching to give it a rewatch. Give it a proper lookover and arm myself with a cushion.

Largo's Shark wrote:

RAIDERS and THE GODFATHER for sure. Fine examples of each film getting progressively better.

I also love going through the 80's backwards.

Chris Nolan's goodbye to Batman:

http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/171933-christopher-nolans-goodbye-to-the-batman-franchise

Quote :

Alfred. Gordon. Lucius. Bruce . . . Wayne. Names that have come to mean so much to me. Today, I’m three weeks from saying a final good-bye to these characters and their world. It’s my son’s ninth birthday. He was born as the Tumbler was being glued together in my garage from random parts of model kits. Much time, many changes. A shift from sets where some gunplay or a helicopter were extraordinary events to working days where crowds of extras, building demolitions, or mayhem thousands of feet in the air have become familiar.

People ask if we’d always planned a trilogy. This is like being asked whether you had planned on growing up, getting married, having kids. The answer is complicated. When David and I first started cracking open Bruce’s story, we flirted with what might come after, then backed away, not wanting to look too deep into the future. I didn’t want to know everything that Bruce couldn’t; I wanted to live it with him. I told David and Jonah to put everything they knew into each film as we made it. The entire cast and crew put all they had into the first film. Nothing held back. Nothing saved for next time. They built an entire city. Then Christian and Michael and Gary and Morgan and Liam and Cillian started living in it. Christian bit off a big chunk of Bruce Wayne’s life and made it utterly compelling. He took us into a pop icon’s mind and never let us notice for an instant the fanciful nature of Bruce’s methods.

I never thought we’d do a second—how many good sequels are there? Why roll those dice? But once I knew where it would take Bruce, and when I started to see glimpses of the antagonist, it became essential. We re-assembled the team and went back to Gotham. It had changed in three years. Bigger. More real. More modern. And a new force of chaos was coming to the fore. The ultimate scary clown, as brought to terrifying life by Heath. We’d held nothing back, but there were things we hadn’t been able to do the first time out—a Batsuit with a flexible neck, shooting on Imax. And things we’d chickened out on—destroying the Batmobile, burning up the villain’s blood money to show a complete disregard for conventional motivation. We took the supposed security of a sequel as license to throw caution to the wind and headed for the darkest corners of Gotham.

I never thought we’d do a third—are there any great second sequels? But I kept wondering about the end of Bruce’s journey, and once David and I discovered it, I had to see it for myself. We had come back to what we had barely dared whisper about in those first days in my garage. We had been making a trilogy. I called everyone back together for another tour of Gotham. Four years later, it was still there. It even seemed a little cleaner, a little more polished. Wayne Manor had been rebuilt. Familiar faces were back—a little older, a little wiser . . . but not all was as it seemed.

Gotham was rotting away at its foundations. A new evil bubbling up from beneath. Bruce had thought Batman was not needed anymore, but Bruce was wrong, just as I had been wrong. The Batman had to come back. I suppose he always will.

Michael, Morgan, Gary, Cillian, Liam, Heath, Christian . . . Bale. Names that have come to mean so much to me. My time in Gotham, looking after one of the greatest and most enduring figures in pop culture, has been the most challenging and rewarding experience a filmmaker could hope for. I will miss the Batman. I like to think that he’ll miss me, but he’s never been particularly sentimental.

Bale's not such a t*** after all:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178497/Dark-Knight-Shooting-Colorado-Aurora-Batman-star-Christian-Bale-comforts-victims-Dark-Knight-gun-massacre-emotional-visit-Aurora-city-mourns-dead.html