Brian De Palma: auteur or charlatan?

Sharky wrote:

They're pretty flat characters, TBH. It's Herrmann's score that gives the film any feeling, poignancy and emotional subtext.

If it was made to be a comedy, then I guess it's one of the best ever.

In regards to Herrmann and OBSESSION, I think the quality of the score matches the quality of the film.

Sharky wrote:

Quite frankly, OBSESSION doesn't deserve Benny's score.

You're awful.

;)

Sharky wrote:

Mr. Brown wrote:

Then again, if the film was crafted any better, as you suggested, it wouldn't even have such a fan base.

Absolute fucking bollocks.

Do you think it'd be popular with the "hip-hop community" and average audiences if it were crafted like BLOW OUT, CARRIE, OBSESSION, etc., or if it didn't include Al Pacino?

Mr. Brown wrote:

Do you think it'd be popular with the "hip-hop community" and average audiences if it were crafted like BLOW OUT, CARRIE, OBSESSION, etc., or if it didn't include Al Pacino?

Since I think Pacino's performance is one of the film's strengths, I can't talk about the last part, though I don't deny he's part of the film's appeal to wannabe gangstas and the average joe. Not since MEAT STREETS and TAXI DRIVER had a working class antihero hit such a chord with the public. Pacino shouldn't be underestimated here.

Looking for a place to jump in.

Mr. Brown wrote:

Do you think it'd be popular with the "hip-hop community" and average audiences if it were crafted like BLOW OUT, CARRIE, OBSESSION, etc., or if it didn't include Al Pacino?

The subject matter of a gangster rising (and falling, but more on that) is what makes it popular with rappers. About the falling part, they seem to miss the irony of the whole thing in that Tony Montana's greed destroys him.

My thoughts on SCARFACE? I love the first two-thirds or so. I love the rise. The fall is what falters to me, and I think Montana's fall should have been connected directly to his greed instead of refusing to blow up that guy's family in the car. That's why Soso sends his army, right? But that, to my thinking, doesn't really work as well as something like Tony trying to do a hit on Sosa and failing would. Tony should have bitten off too much and got bitten back. I dunno, scattered thoughts.

As for PASSION. I hope there is a bucket load of eroticism and I hope Rachel McAdams gets naked. It would be thematically important and stuff.

They key is element there is that Tony is undone by his own humanity, just like how Richard III is undone on the battlefield by his own conscience, in the form of the ghosts the night before and the witch's curse.

The White Tuxedo wrote:

As for PASSION. I hope there is a bucket load of eroticism and I hope Rachel McAdams gets naked. It would be thematically important and stuff.

This.

Gotta agree with Sharky, I find it more appealing with Tony's conscious being his downfall. That's just how I feel.

I've always found this cue moving.

Sharky wrote:

They key is element there is that Tony is undone by his own humanity, just like how Richard III is undone on the battlefield by his own conscience, in the form of the ghosts the night before and the witch's curse.

That had crossed my mind, believe it or not. The idea of his humanity resurfacing. Either way, something doesn't quite work for me in the last act.

There was some article tying CARLITO'S WAY to Greek tragedy.

Sharky wrote:

I've always found this cue moving.

Love it.

Moved recent discussion of SCARFACE over here.

Just to go back to SCARFACE for a moment, man does that film suck.

A new edit of RAISING CAIN--allegedly restoring the sequence of events that De Palma had originally intended for the film, before he re-edited the film after dismal audience reaction during preview screenings--is available for a short time at Press Play.

I was wondering what to watch. I'll watch this.

I wanna wait a couple days on REBECCA.

I'm not sure I agree with calling De Palma a formalist.

I actually haven't seen RAISING CAIN. I love Lithgow, Donnagio and De Palma, so maybe I should check it out.

Sharky wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with calling De Palma a formalist.

What *would* you call him?

Harmsway wrote:

Sharky wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with calling De Palma a formalist.

What *would* you call him?

Sadistic misogynistic rip-off artist?

Harmsway wrote:

Sharky wrote:

I'm not sure I agree with calling De Palma a formalist.

What *would* you call him?

I dunno, really. He's hard to pin down in one category or aesthetic, except his own. Expressionist, perhaps.

I enjoy RAISING CAIN, but it has many problems.

Good find, too, Harms. I'm going to take a look at it tomorrow.

The re-cut of RAISING CAIN is interesting, though I do think that on the whole, I probably prefer the original version. Honestly, I doubt any amount of re-editing could really "solve" the film.

I look forward to seeing the theatrical cut, but I gotta say that I really liked how this recut worked. Now if I only knew a way to download that video as it's only up for a limited time. ;)

Harmsway wrote:

Honestly, I doubt any amount of re-editing could really "solve" the film.

Wish I could see De Palma's original version. It might work better, with the extra material.

I love RAISING CAIN. Thanks for the heads up, Harms, I'm gonna have to check that out tonight.

Looking at his career from the mid-90s up to his last film, I'd say the marketing department is to blame for a lot of De Palma's unpopularity.

For example, SNAKE EYES was marketed like a fucking TV movie. That poster is a complete joke.

Hopefully PASSION isn't marketed as a generic thriller with a horribly photoshopped poster. I can already see "From the director of SCARFACE" being used on a poster or in a trailer.

The poster for FEMME FATALE is horrid.

I love the poster for BODY DOUBLE.

The posters got worse over the years, but that applies to cinema in general, not just DePalma's.

Sharky wrote:

The posters got worse over the years, but that applies to cinema in general, not just DePalma's.

Strangely enough, some of my favorite posters of the last 15 years are the Star Wars ones, because they're hand drawn. Don't like the one for ROTS, though. Shit movies, decent (if maybe over-crowded) posters.

I liked that DAHLIA teaser poster of just her face. At least it's a simple image.