BIG MISTAKE IN SKYFALL?

These Bond/Wayne comparisons don't really hold up too well, mainly for reasons that Sykes cited.

The filmmakers didn't just, out of the blue, decide to give James Bond a tragic family history because of Nolan's latest Batman flick. It is surprising, though, that EON utilized some source material, rather than ripping some other franchise off. This is a step in the right direction. SKYFALL, in general, was a step in the right direction.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

Since when was Bond ever a Universal character? He's a snobbish white Imperialist British secret agent.

This may have been true about the Bond of the Fleming books but I think it's fair to say that, consciously or not, Fleming was able to tap into some element of archetypal maleness that the filmmakers were able to seize on and create a character that has been successfully reinvented and made to appeal widely to audiences of the last 50 years. If they had stayed entirely within the mold of the character as established by Fleming I don't believe this would have been possible. Personally, I believe that book Bond and movie Bond ultimately inhabit two separate universes and that it's precisely because of a universal appeal of the cinematic incarnation of the character that the series has been able to thrive for as long as it has.

Okay, but to further my own point and counter-argue Stamper's point -- Does giving Bond's family a stone house in Scotland take away from his "archetypal maleness" and thus his appeal?

I doubt it.

And besides, Skyfall Bond is the least snobbish and thus most common of all the Bonds -- he drinks beer!

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

Does giving Bond's family a stone house in Scotland take away from his "archetypal maleness" and thus his appeal?

Having watched the film twice now, I honestly think the estates in Scotland fit the family history Fleming gave Bond about as well as possible.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

And besides, Skyfall Bond is the least snobbish and thus most common of all the Bonds -- he drinks beer!

I was expecting a ton of complaints about this ever since it first came to light. But I don't think I've seen one complaint since it was released. I guess that's because the film didn't make a big deal of it, and it fit within the context of the scene in question.

It fits with the few times Fleming has Bond drinking Beer -- it's imported, he's not in England, and essentially no one sees him do it.

And it's not like he's having a beer in the place of a martini, as everyone feared. At that point of the story, Bond isn't enjoying his "retirement" as much as he thought it would, and he's clearly bored. Why bother making all that effort to have a martini when he can just open a beer? That's why he goes to the bar and plays the drinking game with the scorpion.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

Stamper wrote:

Because suddenly he is Bruce Wayne. That's a HUGE blunder in that series. They jumped the shark big time this time.

1. Have you read a single post I have made in your thread?

2. Does the Bond family own a large, multi-national corporation that supplies Bond with infinite funding?

3. Were Bond's parents murdered, motivating Bond to years of vengeance?

4. Is Bond a famous celebrity icon?

The answer to the four above questions is No, therefore Bond is not Wayne.

On the other hand, Bond was never a "commoner". Bond, like Wayne, has always had gadgets and money at his dispoal, they were simply provided by the Crown instead of embezzled from a private corporation. Bond is an international jet-setting superspy funded by the government (as opposed to a municipal vigilante hunted by the government). He went to Eton and Fettes. He is not a common man, but he is also not a super elite. I've been saying this over and over in this thread.

However, Batman has recently become more like Bond (most notably his international travels in THE DARK KNIGHT), thanks to Christopher Nolan's quite public love of the Bond series.

Go back and actually read what I've been posting in your own thread, Stamper, and you'll understand Bond is not Wayne, and that SKYFALL's depiction is not some sudden, out-of-nowhere betrayal of the character but in fact perfectly in line with established facts, particularly facts established by Ian Fleming -- the guy who would know.

Give this man a beer!! :cheers:

2 to 4 will be for the next movie... that is, until something else than Dark Knight or bOurne come along and they decide to rip it off by plundering Fleming and twisting it so that it fits. I like SF, but I prefer Bond when he leads rather than when he copies.

And I would argue that SF is the first Bond film to do so since Harry Saltzman's days. As I said before, Nolan is a big Bond fan, and The Dark Knight borrowed from Bond before Bond borrowed from him.

Here's the 1965 Doc that does a brief summary of Bond's early life: https://youtu.be/Mr8RZXtGYbU

Wow! Great doc!

The whole thing is under the Thunderball special features, I think it's great they included it.

On the new Bond 50 set?

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

And I would argue that SF is the first Bond film to do so since Harry Saltzman's days. As I said before, Nolan is a big Bond fan, and The Dark Knight borrowed from Bond before Bond borrowed from him.

And Batman Begins borrowed heavily from "the Shadow" movie.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

On the new Bond 50 set?

UE DVDs and Bond 50.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

And it's not like he's having a beer in the place of a martini, as everyone feared. At that point of the story, Bond isn't enjoying his "retirement" as much as he thought it would, and he's clearly bored. Why bother making all that effort to have a martini when he can just open a beer? That's why he goes to the bar and plays the drinking game with the scorpion.

And lets not forget that Bond drinks a hell of a lot of whiskey in this film, which is every bit as Flemingesque as his vodka martinis.

SF moreso than any other film probably gives best homage to Fleming Bond's prodigious whiskey/bourbon-and-soda swilling. :drunken:

Python wrote:

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

On the new Bond 50 set?

UE DVDs

Not Region 2.

Stamper wrote:

I like SF

Really? Seem to remember you hating it after your preview screening.