Continuity & SKYFALL

This thread is in response to a discussion made in the recent Judi Dench thread.

To start this off, I'm wondering how many of you see Craig's Bond in SKYFALL as the same Bond we saw in CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE. Personally, I don't buy it. I see SKYFALL as a standalone film. I'm not necessarily concerned about events from CR and QOS not fitting or matching with events in, or that lead to, SKYFALL. I'm more concerned about the main character, James Bond. Apparently, SKYFALL takes place 6 years after CR. In this 6 years, we're supposed to believe that James Bond went from being the angry, thuggish, action hero in CR and QOS to being the Fleming-esque, patriotic Bond that he appears as in SKYFALL?

There's not only this, but as Silva, M, and even Q mention Bond's past, along with Mi6's past, it seems as if James Bond has more than just 6 years of double-o experience under his belt. He was working for Mi6 in the 80s, as he knew of Silva and his section, although I understand that that information doesn't prove that he was promoted to double-o status before 2006. In Bond's obituary, M also refers to him as commander; therefore, we're supposed to believe that Bond was granted this rank in just 6 years? And I suppose he had the Aston DB5 that he won from Dimitrios outfitted by Q Branch following CASINO ROYALE?

The way Bond was written and performed was a dead giveaway that Mendes didn't care about whether or not this film connected to Craig's past two films. It's clear that he set out to make his own James Bond adventure.

QoS and Casino Royale are crap.

Skyfall is terrific.

There is no continuity.

Control wrote:

It's clear that he set out to make his own James Bond adventure.

I don't blame him, who would want to be associated with QOS?

It worked too, they're all laughing their way to the bank :face:

There may be inconsistencies, but there is a definite sense that we are to see SKYFALL as a follow-up to the preceding films. SKYFALL directly references CASINO ROYALE more than once, with callbacks to the "Stop touching your ear" moment and Bond's break-in to M's apartment.

Control wrote:

In this 6 years, we're supposed to believe that James Bond went from being the angry, thuggish, action hero in CR and QOS to being the Fleming-esque, patriotic Bond that he appears as in SKYFALL?

Sure. I think you're overstating the differences between the two.

I watched CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE in the build-up to SKYFALL, and SKYFALL seemed to work pretty well as a cap to an "origins trilogy." Bond's not exactly un-patriotic in CASINO ROYALE and QUANTUM OF SOLACE, and he's not exactly without some brutish tendencies in SKYFALL, either. The difference between the Bond of CASINO ROYALE and the Bond of SKYFALL seems largely to be that the last six years has taken a very serious toll on him, and that he's very recently had the wind knocked out of him in a big way.

Control wrote:

In Bond's obituary, M also refers to him as commander; therefore, we're supposed to believe that Bond was granted this rank in just 6 years?

What rank did the CASINO ROYALE dossier give him?

Control wrote:

And I suppose he had the Aston DB5 that he won from Dimitrios outfitted by Q Branch following CASINO ROYALE?

In the original draft it was the CASINO ROYALE DB5. It got changed when Mendes wanted to include the GOLDFINGER gadgetry. It's an inconsistency that you either accept or can concoct some explanation for (I've got a pet fictional backstory of my own).

Harmsway wrote:

The difference between the Bond of CASINO ROYALE and the Bond of SKYFALL seems largely to be that the last six years has taken a very serious toll on him, and that he's very recently had the wind knocked out of him in a big way.

Well, he was shot, fell from a great height and presumably almost drowned as well. I don't see anything in SKYFALL to suggest that Bond has had a rough few years on top of his mishap in Turkey. He may have done, of course, but where's the evidence for it? For all we know, he's been having a whale of a time working for M these past few years.

And where's this figure of six years coming from?

Harmsway wrote:

Control wrote:

In Bond's obituary, M also refers to him as commander; therefore, we're supposed to believe that Bond was granted this rank in just 6 years?

What rank did the CASINO ROYALE dossier give him?

I recall during production of CASINO ROYALE, the filmmakers never planned on having Bond ranked as a commander. Looking at the official CASINO ROYALE site, it seems as if their dossier notes that Bond is indeed a commander, although it's never mentioned in the film. He sure the hell isn't treated like a high ranking naval officer, either. So, I guess I am wrong on that one.

Loomis wrote:

And where's this figure of six years coming from?

2006 - 2012

But, again, nothing in the film suggests that six years have passed, unless I missed something that indicated the date that the events in SKYFALL took place.

Loomis wrote:

Harmsway wrote:

The difference between the Bond of CASINO ROYALE and the Bond of SKYFALL seems largely to be that the last six years has taken a very serious toll on him, and that he's very recently had the wind knocked out of him in a big way.

Well, he was shot, fell from a great height and presumably almost drowned as well. I don't see anything in SKYFALL to suggest that Bond has had a rough few years on top of his mishap in Turkey. He may have done, of course, but where's the evidence for it? For all we know, he's been having a whale of a time working for M these past few years.

The film can't make up its mind whether Bond is an old man or simply injured. They introduce Bond as being injured and then suddenly switch that out for a different conceit, never justified.

I believe we are going down a new timeline for the Bond series. This does not mean they are going to just rehash the old Bond movies since there are plenty of Bond novels that can be tweaked and adapted for new movies. Of course there will be new characters and new villains for Bond to conquer. However, and this is where it gets fun, we will see new people playing old characters with familiar names, however they may not play the same role as before. Mr. Wint & Mr. Kidd might be businessmen with families. Goldfinger may be a pro golfer with his own club and Pussy Galore may be the villain with her gang of criminal pilots. Giacinta "Jinx" Johnson may not work for the NSA, but be a mercenary, assassin, or double agent trying to kill Bond. Who knows, so the next Bond movie should be an indication of what direction they are moving the Bond series

The continuity, even in terms of character, is as good as it's ever been: not very.

It depends on the writer. Dahl had Connery refer to himself as the best; Mankiewicz essentially turned Bond into a celebrity within his own world.

It's a very deliberate and clean break from before, but I think the critical aspect is the Bond/M relationship, which does have something of a through-line.

Louis Armstrong wrote:

The film can't make up its mind whether Bond is an old man or simply injured. They introduce Bond as being injured and then suddenly switch that out for a different conceit, never justified.

It's both, quite simply. He was injured, which triggered him going to seed. It also serves as nod to the backlash to QUANTUM OF SOLACE and MGM going into bankruptcy. A sort of meta-commentary on the franchise's ability to constantly adapt to the times (resurrection) in the face of broadsides from critics, fans, the general public, and studio derailment.

Harmsway wrote:

There may be inconsistencies, but there is a definite sense that we are to see SKYFALL as a follow-up to the preceding films. SKYFALL directly references CASINO ROYALE more than once, with callbacks to the "Stop touching your ear" moment and Bond's break-in to M's apartment.

There's also this line.

Neil Purvis & Robert Wade and John Logan wrote:

BOND: Tattoo on your wrist, is Macau sex trade. You belonged to one of the houses. What were you, twelve? Thirteen? I'm guessing he was your way out. Perhaps you thought you were in love. But that was a long time ago.
SEVERINE: You know nothing about it.
BOND: I know when a woman is afraid and pretending not to be.

Skyfall comes six years after QOS which was immediately after CR which was the start of the new series. If you like the video games you can have Blood Stone as a Craig adventure between QOS and SF (think of it like the Craig movie we never got cuz of MGM's financial problems) and if the games GOLDENEYE RELOADED and 007 LGENDS are to be believed then Craig's Bond went on alternate verasions of the previous Bond adventures between QOS and SF

I don't see any great problems with the continuity.

Control wrote:

Apparently, SKYFALL takes place 6 years after CR. In this 6 years, we're supposed to believe that James Bond went from being the angry, thuggish, action hero in CR and QOS to being the Fleming-esque, patriotic Bond that he appears as in SKYFALL?

It was implied that Bond had been on several assignments in that six years.

Control wrote:

He was working for Mi6 in the 80s,

I don't recall that ever being mentioned.

Control wrote:

as he knew of Silva and his section, although I understand that that information doesn't prove that he was promoted to double-o status before 2006.

Or he could have simply read about Silva's operations. He was supposedly a legendary agent before his capture; it's only natural that Bond would know of him. Particularly the way M tells him that Silva's real name is Thiago Rodriguez. It's evidently meaningful to both her and Bond.

Control wrote:

In Bond's obituary, M also refers to him as commander; therefore, we're supposed to believe that Bond was granted this rank in just 6 years?

I believe his backstory placed him in the Navy before joining MI6. Indeed, he was recrutied from the Navy into military intelligence. It's also entirely plausibe that Double-Ohs get fast-tracked through the promotion ladder to give them more power to acquire whatever assets they need in the field.

Control wrote:

And I suppose he had the Aston DB5 that he won from Dimitrios outfitted by Q Branch following CASINO ROYALE?

Six years have passed since CR. Anything could have reasonably happened.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Control wrote:

He was working for Mi6 in the 80s,

I don't recall that ever being mentioned.

Yeah. Craig's Bond would have been a teen at Fettes in the 80s.

See no reason to believe Bond in SF ain't the Bond from CR/QOS. Remember that in their own shoddy way the first two movies were about Bond "becoming Bond," so it stands to reason that he'd be a changed man after those events. There's also, supposedly, a 6 year gap between the events of CR/QOS and SF. Plenty of time for a man's character to develop.

As far as his rank goes, I'm fairly certain I recall the CR dossier mentioning he was a commander. 'Course it's hard to believe the man-child of CR could ever attain such a rank, but there ya go.

His rank wasn't mentioned in CR or QOS, so a lot of folks assumed that Craig's Bond wasn't a former naval officer and had a different background. As said earlier, his dossier on the CR site has been accepted as canon and most of it matches up to Fleming's Bond albeit updated for a man born in 1968 instead of 1920.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Control wrote:

He was working for Mi6 in the 80s,

I don't recall that ever being mentioned.

Yeah. Craig's Bond would have been a teen at Fettes in the 80s.

Then I guess Bond studies ex-Mi6 agents on his spare time?

When they first meet, Bond recalls that Silva was Head of Section H (I believe) in the 80s.

I thought it was the 90s, hence the handover and all.

The 80s were mentioned at some point. I might see the movie again this week, so I'll keep it in mind.

Control wrote:

Then I guess Bond studies ex-Mi6 agents on his spare time?

Silva was supposedly a legendary agent. It's only natural that Bond knew who he was.

Control wrote:

When they first meet, Bond recalls that Silva was Head of Section H (I believe) in the 80s.

That was M. M was the head of Section H; Silva worked with her from 1986 to 1997.

Now, perhaps it is a continuity issue. But it can just as easily be explained by Bond being knowledgeable about the history of MI6. I think the latter is far mroe likely.

http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/casinoroyale/site_html/dossier/military_record.php

According to the CR dossier Bond was working for Defence Intelligence during the Hong Kong handover.

CJB wrote:

http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/casinoroyale/site_html/dossier/military_record.php

According to the CR dossier Bond was working for Defence Intelligence during the Hong Kong handover.

Nice catch.

Control wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Control wrote:

He was working for Mi6 in the 80s,

I don't recall that ever being mentioned.

Yeah. Craig's Bond would have been a teen at Fettes in the 80s.

Then I guess Bond studies ex-Mi6 agents on his spare time?

When they first meet, Bond recalls that Silva was Head of Section H (I believe) in the 80s.

Quote :

42 INT. MI6 BUNKER -- DAY

BOND is on a treadmill doing a physical examination and TANNER continues to debrief him

TANNER
We've attempted to trace the computer message, but it was sent by an asymmetrical security algorithm, which bounced the signal all over the globe through over a thousand different servers. And now that they've accessed M's codes it's only a matter of time before they're able to decrypt the list.

We then see Bond doing sit-ups as Tanner continues

TANNER
Q Branch have been analysing the picture, but so far nothing. General feeling is it's probably someone from her past, perhaps when she was running things in Hong Kong. She's no idea what it all means.

I don't find Craig's performance in Skyfall to be so wildly inconsistent with CR and QOS. There are still plenty of old Craig-isms in Skyfall - he's still got the energizer bunny in him. In four years, he's just become a more world-weary, bon-vivant cat. Even Moore's Bond underwent some transformations from Live and Let Die to For Your Eyes Only, for instance.

The Bond of CR and QoS was young, confident, cocky, uncultured and brash, and newly appointed to the 007 section. The Bond of Skyfall on the other hand is old, rugged, run down, not the man he once was and borderline obsolete. If Bond in Skyfall is the same Bond from QoS then we can only assume that much time has passed between the former film and Skyfall. That said, apart from the odd token gesture and set of films (DN and FRWL or CR and QoS) continuity has never been a huge concern for the Bond producers, and frankly I think this is precisely how it needs to be.

Six years. Six years have passed between QOS and SF. If you consider video games canon, than in the time between QOS and SF Craig's Bond went on the following adventures:
- A Craig continuity version of GoldenEye
- The "Blood Stone" video game
- Craig continuity versions of Goldfinger, OHMSS, Moonraker, LTK and DAD.