Is a forum merger worth considering to guarantee our future?

Over the last few months, as most of you are well aware, we've been trying to find ways of improving the forums in order to guarantee the growth and future of Bond And Beyond. One of the problems in guaranteeing a large and frequently active Bond forum is the fact that there are at least another half a dozen Bond forums out there vying for people's attention. Of these other forums, some of them are in a similar position to ourselves from an activity point of view, whilst some of them fare worse than ourselves. Some of them have decent news/article pages but largely dormant or unremarkable forums. We have potentially good forums, but no news/article pages and very limited exposure/presence.

A mutually beneficial move could be to merge what we have here with one or more other Bond forums, an especially possible proposition if we were to merge with a good Bond feature site but alas not much of a forum to offer.

Just imagine how much of a future and member growth a merger would guarantee if, for example, the members and forums of the following Bond domains came together as one large forum with accompanying news/feature pages:

The James Bond International Fan Club
AJB (Absolutely James Bond)
007 Magazine
Daniel Craig Is Not Bond/Classic Bond Forums
HMSS (Her Majesty's Secret Servant)

Now, in listing the above, I'm not for one second implying that we are either bigger or smaller than any of those fine establishments but, of some of those names listed, along with ourselves, there is undeniably room for real growth, growth which is being held back by the amount of forums/sites offering similar services. Like ourselves, some other Bond-focused forums aren't expanding in a big way, a problem made all the worse by the existence of Facebook and apps. The situation as a result will get worse for such forums, not better.

I would never propose any kind of merger without the approval of our key active members here, which is why I'm just floating the idea here now to see what people think. Is it an idea worth pursuing? Could we, along with any other Bond forum(s)/site(s) benefit mutually from merging together?

A month ago I actually did throw in the idea of merging with HMSS because they have no forum (as far as I am aware) and that their blog entries are much more interesting to read than a lot of other sites, IMO.

I'm all for this, even if it does lead to a few changes. It'd probably be best for the community.

I can't imagine AJB being open to the idea, however. They'd most likely want us all to register there. HMSS could be a good option. Let's not get associated with DCINB, though.

Control wrote:

Let's not get associated with DCINB, though.

I'm sure they'd feel the same about us, given how positive we are about SKYFALL. They actually hate it over there and call it the worst. Besides, they have their own niche that separates them from other sites: Anti-Craig, it's too unique for them to let go of.

Look for a blog or site like the now defunct The Incredible Suit. It had a less insular focus than HMSS or The James Bond International Fan Club, plus more humour, but never forgot its love for Bond.

Discounting DCINB (I agree with them so much it is painful, but not as painful as actually going to the site and reading the content), how are these others on the non-Bond aspects?

Honestly, what I find most appealing here are the various film sub-forums not relating to Bond -- specifically, a lot of the well-written views, heedless of whether I agree with them or not. You folks are pretty close to being the only source I consider pretty worthwhile in terms of hearing a recommendation for something and then not being often disappointed by trying that show or film.

I wouldn't have thought that a site merger was the best way forward.

General Y Y wrote:

I wouldn't have thought that a site merger was the best way forward.

Me either. I've never seen a message forum paralyzed by such a lack of confidence before.

I don't know why we can't just accept what we are without all this self-doubt. It's becoming embarrassing.

Jack Wade wrote:

General Y Y wrote:

I wouldn't have thought that a site merger was the best way forward.

Me either. I've never seen a message forum paralyzed by such a lack of confidence before.

I don't know why we can't just accept what we are without all this self-doubt. It's becoming embarrassing.

I agree. The boards do seem strangely quiet, though, but no amount of re-branding will alleviate this. People have to actually want to come here and join up and post regularly or semi-regularly. They can't be forced to do so and many members from before the relaunch seem to be alienated from returning here again. This is a real problem. there are few posters of the right calibre being attracted here in order to fill the void.

A merger would only hide our forums behind another entity and we don't want that. Going it alone is the only way, even if it means the forums themselves become rather moribund in nature, such as they are now. I hope things will pick up before it is too late.

I think that's exactly what M is trying to do, make things pick up before it's too late. A merger, especially a forum one, would bring with it different people and different opinions, and could provide much-needed lifeblood to a forum in which the current members aren't motivated to post much anymore. I respectfully disagree with Jack Wade in that I find M's suggestions to be proactive rather than negative. If we let moribundity happen, inactivity continue or lose more good members, then we're digging our own grave, however quickly or slowly. We may have a nice new banner, yes, but it's done nothing to change the problems on the boards. We need new voices, and they won't come unless serious action is taken. Time to get real, people. If evolution wasn't often an inevitable necessity, then none of us would be here.

If it was us joining a site that has no forum at the moment, that I think that would be good. Gives us a boost. But there would be no point "merging" with another forum. Might as well just delete this sites account and recommend we all sign up at another Bond site.

Honestly, we all knew that this forum would not be busy or active. It was formed to be a select group of people. When it started it was invite only and certain people were asked to join (in retrospect, probably a bad decision if you are in the "we need to bring in more people" camp). When I joined I knew discussion would never be as active or busy as MI6 or CBn, I kind of figured it would be hit or miss.

I think the forum has nothing to discuss (no film until 2015 and lack of a main site) and that's the problem.  But I don't know if merging with another Bond forum is the greatest idea.... if I wanted to join another massive circle jerk I'd be at MI6.


I still think it would be nice to give a TOPIC OF THE WEEK forum a try.  A separate section. Maybe one major discussion question/topic/opinion per week and see how the discussion goes. For example, maybe one member is passed the baton for a week and argues "Why I think A View To A Kill and Die Another Day are the best Bond films of all time..."

Might give something people to talk about or discuss at least.

Or something similar, a post where you have to make an argument: "Why David Arnold is the new Beethoven" and after a week of debate, people can vote on whether the original post swayed their opinions.

For example: "Why David Arnold creates the most beautiful, perfect, amazing, gorgeous, clever, seductive, aggressive, erotic pieces of ear pleasure in the history of the cosmos?"

And someone can come in and spit some truth and say "Hey bitches, David Arnold is a cunt and his music sucks."



Maybe silly ideas, but just something to throw out there. I feel like most people tend to ignore the smaller sections of the site and opt for the general threads or the Bond News one. Maybe a main topic question in a visible area will attract people?

Moore wrote:

If it was us joining a site that has no forum at the moment, that I think that would be good. Gives us a boost. But there would be no point "merging" with another forum. Might as well just delete this sites account and recommend we all sign up at another Bond site.

Honestly, we all knew that this forum would not be busy or active. It was formed to be a select group of people. When it started it was invite only and certain people were asked to join (in retrospect, probably a bad decision if you are in the "we need to bring in more people" camp). When I joined I knew discussion would never be as active or busy as MI6 or CBn, I kind of figured it would be hit or miss.

I think the forum has nothing to discuss (no film until 2015 and lack of a main site) and that's the problem.  But I don't know if merging with another Bond forum is the greatest idea.... if I wanted to join another massive circle jerk I'd be at MI6.


I still think it would be nice to give a TOPIC OF THE WEEK forum a try.  A separate section. Maybe one major discussion question/topic/opinion per week and see how the discussion goes. For example, maybe one member is passed the baton for a week and argues "Why I think A View To A Kill and Die Another Day are the best Bond films of all time..."

Might give something people to talk about or discuss at least.

Or something similar, a post where you have to make an argument: "Why David Arnold is the new Beethoven" and after a week of debate, people can vote on whether the original post swayed their opinions.

For example: "Why David Arnold creates the most beautiful, perfect, amazing, gorgeous, clever, seductive, aggressive, erotic pieces of ear pleasure in the history of the cosmos?"

And someone can come in and spit some truth and say "Hey bitches, David Arnold is a cunt and his music sucks."



Maybe silly ideas, but just something to throw out there. I feel like most people tend to ignore the smaller sections of the site and opt for the general threads or the Bond News one. Maybe a main topic question in a visible area will attract people?

You may ridicule MI6 HQ but they have a far more active site than this one is. There's a reason for that - newcomers are made to feel welcome over there. Criticising MI6 just smacks of sour grapes as it is the most active forum out of all of the Bond forums. Criticising other sites is rather old hat by this stage. It just further alienates members from these other sites that might want to seek sanctuary here instead. I think that it is time here that people realised it's not enough to criticise other sites and made the argument for the reasons why a new member should be attracted to come here. Enough of the negativity.

Moore wrote:

Honestly, we all knew that this forum would not be busy or active. It was formed to be a select group of people. When it started it was invite only and certain people were asked to join (in retrospect, probably a bad decision if you are in the "we need to bring in more people" camp). When I joined I knew discussion would never be as active or busy as MI6 or CBn, I kind of figured it would be hit or miss.

I think the forum has nothing to discuss (no film until 2015 and lack of a main site) and that's the problem.  But I don't know if merging with another Bond forum is the greatest idea.... if I wanted to join another massive circle jerk I'd be at MI6.

Yup. We are a small community; essentially a niche within a niche. Not only that but we're in a period where there's little-to-no news on the topic for which we're here. Slow periods should be expected.

I really hate this phrase but we are what we are. I really wish we'd stop trying to change that. It looks desperate.

Jack Wade wrote:

Moore wrote:

Honestly, we all knew that this forum would not be busy or active. It was formed to be a select group of people. When it started it was invite only and certain people were asked to join (in retrospect, probably a bad decision if you are in the "we need to bring in more people" camp). When I joined I knew discussion would never be as active or busy as MI6 or CBn, I kind of figured it would be hit or miss.

I think the forum has nothing to discuss (no film until 2015 and lack of a main site) and that's the problem.  But I don't know if merging with another Bond forum is the greatest idea.... if I wanted to join another massive circle jerk I'd be at MI6.

Yup. We are a small community; essentially a niche within a niche. Not only that but we're in a period where there's little-to-no news on the topic for which we're here. Slow periods should be expected.

I really hate this phrase but we are what we are. I really wish we'd stop trying to change that. It looks desperate.

It may indeed look desperate, but plenty of the other Bond forums are much more active than here, even with the down-time between films until 2015. So clearly we are lacking something significant here.

General Y Y wrote:

Moore wrote:

If it was us joining a site that has no forum at the moment, that I think that would be good. Gives us a boost. But there would be no point "merging" with another forum. Might as well just delete this sites account and recommend we all sign up at another Bond site.

Honestly, we all knew that this forum would not be busy or active. It was formed to be a select group of people. When it started it was invite only and certain people were asked to join (in retrospect, probably a bad decision if you are in the "we need to bring in more people" camp). When I joined I knew discussion would never be as active or busy as MI6 or CBn, I kind of figured it would be hit or miss.

I think the forum has nothing to discuss (no film until 2015 and lack of a main site) and that's the problem.  But I don't know if merging with another Bond forum is the greatest idea.... if I wanted to join another massive circle jerk I'd be at MI6.


I still think it would be nice to give a TOPIC OF THE WEEK forum a try.  A separate section. Maybe one major discussion question/topic/opinion per week and see how the discussion goes. For example, maybe one member is passed the baton for a week and argues "Why I think A View To A Kill and Die Another Day are the best Bond films of all time..."

Might give something people to talk about or discuss at least.

Or something similar, a post where you have to make an argument: "Why David Arnold is the new Beethoven" and after a week of debate, people can vote on whether the original post swayed their opinions.

For example: "Why David Arnold creates the most beautiful, perfect, amazing, gorgeous, clever, seductive, aggressive, erotic pieces of ear pleasure in the history of the cosmos?"

And someone can come in and spit some truth and say "Hey bitches, David Arnold is a cunt and his music sucks."



Maybe silly ideas, but just something to throw out there. I feel like most people tend to ignore the smaller sections of the site and opt for the general threads or the Bond News one. Maybe a main topic question in a visible area will attract people?

You may ridicule MI6 HQ but they have a far more active site than this one is. There's a reason for that - newcomers are made to feel welcome over there. Criticising MI6 just smacks of sour grapes as it is the most active forum out of all of the Bond forums. Criticising other sites is rather old hat by this stage. It just further alienates members from these other sites that might want to seek sanctuary here instead. I think that it is time here that people realised it's not enough to criticise other sites and made the argument for the reasons why a new member should be attracted to come here. Enough of the negativity.

Well maybe I didn't make my sentence clear enough, but I would hardly say I was criticizing MI6 because of that one throwaway line. Let me explain again.

MI6 is the largest and most active Bond site on the web, of course. What I am trying to say is... this website was never MEANT to be that active. And even if it wanted to, it never COULD be. Attach it to another Bond site, make a new banner, change the font, post it on google, whatever. It will never attract a large quantity of members. It was always meant to be a niche community. If you are really lucky you might get 200 or so more members, but if people are thinking a thousand or two, well... sorry, it isn't going to happen.  Sorry to be blunt, I love this site...but it's a forummotion site for god's sake. MI6 and CBN have the Bond corner marketed... and it isn't like Star Wars, Bond fandom doesn't run that deep, so we have little chance of being a thriving fringe forum. Sorry, but facts are facts.

MI6 is great if you are looking for hundreds of discussion and all that, but then you get people like Simulator, Splinter Cell, SpaceFighterX, Casino Royale. I was with MI6 from 2003 until it changed formats, I met a lot of fantastic people and worked on a ton of projects with them including a few things for their main site/John Gardner section. I had great times over there and nothing but love for the people I worked with on various projects. But the point of this site was, after the crash, to stick to an old format and keep it to a few hundred members to avoid people like the ones I mentioned above who posted "Which Bond has the biggest cock?" threads (the circle jerk I mentioned in my previous post). I don't think anyone would suggest MI6 is not known on the web as the definitive Bond site. I didn't say anything negative about them, just about the few people there who create circle jerk threads.

The fact is ... this is a niche site with a small community. And it always will be. The problem started when a few people launched their campaign to make the site get more members. If ANYTHING has driven away more potential members it is the numerous threads about change, new ideas, and how to fix a broken site. It's like being asked to come in for a job interview and hear the boss saying "Yeah, the company is in really bad shape, we're going bankrupt and, honestly, we can't pay this guy..... oh, sorry, didn't see you there... so when would you like to start? Tomorrow sound good?"

No, of course you wouldn't work there. You'd go get a real job where you can get paid. So why would anyone want to join a website where all they do is talk about how shitty it is.


And then you get to the changes being made. If you want new members, a new look won't do much.

"Hey, maybe if we put a new color scheme, we'll get a ton of new members." That's like saying "maybe if I paint this wall in my house a new color, someone will actually buy it!" but you never even put the house up on market. Who gives a fuck about the color scheme? No one, because no one even knows about the site in the first place. Do something productive like advertising instead, make a blog... a website...something.

Anyone who thinks this site has the potential or chance of being as large or as active as MI6 is simply wrong. I'm not trying to be an ass, because I love the people on this site and our community here, it is wonderful. But people thinking this site will be as active as MI6 need to get their head out of the stars. It's a small site with a few members. Posts will be sporadic. Of course our activity is not as significant as MI6.

So why isn't it as popular as the smaller Bond forums on the web?

This site is only two years old. Of course, it will not be as active as the other smaller Bond forums because they've been around for years. They have a solid, core community they've built up. That doesn't happen overnight. Take a deep breathe and give it time. Two years is a rather short time to start having a mid-life crisis.


Sorry if this is blunt and seems "negative" but...

Also, instead of trying to immediately merge to another forum, why not try a step by step process. All we've actually done is change the banner and the color scheme and we're already calling it a day and throwing in the towel.

Why not try a step by step plan if people are so bent on getting new members. Set a goal, make a plan, and get a few key people to try and push that concept.

Say Goal #1: Current membership is at 364 users. Let's say you take a month to formulate a plan of action. Start on September 1. From September to the end of the year the goal is to increase the number of forum users to break the 420 mark, etc.

And then take it from there.

Merging with a site that doesn't have a forum of its own seems a good idea as the news it posts is often a good stimulus to discussion and variety.

I think the big issue is one of whether we have any consistent view of the type of forum we want. Busy/active doesn't automatically mean better to me, a few posters with strong views have departed but while they made many postive contributions to the forum their most active arguments were often pretty laboured and irrelevent to me, so we hold different political views, some of us have prejudices, some of us are dumber than others.... the internet brings us all together and we either have to live with it or accept that our head will hurt as we repeatedly bang it against that brick wall. Even where someone hold a vast ly difefrent view, there is oftem much we end up with in common so its crazy how one aspect can often wholly influence a division.

After work I like to relax and use the internet to assist and entertain that alternative time, others seem to want to wind themselves up about trivia and tbh those are the ones I am happy to get away from. But thats just me and perhaps makes me incompatible with an overly active forum.

Try and find a site that has a wider scope than just Bond and similar franchises. Beyond Bond, HMSS is following the reboot of a Bond-spinoff (THE MAN FROM U.N.C.L.E.) and puts out regular articles on its favourite character actors - both of which feel like afterthoughts. A way of killing time between now and Bond 24.

Am glad that merging with DCINB isn't a popular idea ... that would just likely bring back the type of mud-slinging and personal abuse that used to happen in the American politics thread, but regarding Craig's Bond instead.

Yeah, that would be a disaster. The Bond forum equivalent of the Mariel boatlift.

A few thoughts:

- Why not set-up our own blog rather than leeching off someone else? I could see Harms, trev, Wade, Brown, Sykes and others putting out great articles. Use some of our members' industry connections to score interviews with directors, DPs, title designers, composers, screenwriters, producers, authors, actors etc. We could also bring back the weekly debates but not just limit them to Bond (although that's what brought most of us here, we could probably write each other's answers and not be far off the mark. I swear, if I see another debate on David bleedin' Arnold I'm going mental) - we could post the question along with two or three best answers (chosen by the OP) as a blog entry.

- To raise activity, reward people for making quality posts. I've seen sites that use +1 buttons but have disabled the - ones, this keeps a competitive spirit without turning members into vengeful cunts. Maybe have some these posts could be linked to on the blog or retweeted by our Twitter account (do we even have one?)? This would put out the best of what we have to offer to a wider community.

- Personalise the profile section - take a page from Cb.n or whatever forum code its using. I don't think its phpBB, but then I'm no expert.

- Cut down on these kind of threads. As said by Moore and Wade, it makes this place look fairly pathetic. I'm not blaming M here, I was the one who started the craze.

Saludos,

Sharky

I agree, some good ideas there.

Or at the very least, if we are going to have these threads... have a hidden section that only members can see for the time being (if possible). Sure, people will be able to see them after they sign up, but when they first come to the forum, it won't be one of the first things they see.

I think they should set some goals. By December 2013 we want to have a blog finished and try to recruit x-amount of people, etc.

Set up a blog and have weekly debates. Maybe even try to use the chatbox. Sure, we're all in different timezones, but maybe once in a while just say "Hey, we'll be chatting about For Your Eyes Only tonight or Ian Fleming's writing style... or hey, let's just have a good time and talk about random stuff." If even a few people participate it would be nice.


I would like to see a weekly debate thread. It could be something simple "Why I think You Only Live Twice is the best Bond score." discuss. Sure, it is essentially the same as any other discussion, but the poster of the topic can choose the person who made the best argument against them or best post and let them take the mantle next week. Would be interesting to see, might encourage people to be a bit more active.

Largo's Shark wrote:

- Why not set-up our own blog rather than leeching off someone else? I could see Harms, trev, Wade, Brown, Sykes and others putting out great articles. Use some of our members' industry connections to score interviews with directors, DPs, title designers, composers, screenwriters, producers, authors, actors etc. We could also bring back the weekly debates but not just limit them to Bond (although that's what brought most of us here, we could probably write each other's answers and not be far off the mark. I swear, if I see another debate on David bleedin' Arnold I'm going mental) - we could post the question along with two or three best answers (chosen by the OP) as a blog entry.

If this were to occur I would certainly be down to contribute. There are plenty of great articles to write without stretching into Bondologist "How the Third Act Structure of COLD Fall Allegorize Late 1870s Belgian Economics" territory.

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

- Why not set-up our own blog rather than leeching off someone else? I could see Harms, trev, Wade, Brown, Sykes and others putting out great articles. Use some of our members' industry connections to score interviews with directors, DPs, title designers, composers, screenwriters, producers, authors, actors etc. We could also bring back the weekly debates but not just limit them to Bond (although that's what brought most of us here, we could probably write each other's answers and not be far off the mark. I swear, if I see another debate on David bleedin' Arnold I'm going mental) - we could post the question along with two or three best answers (chosen by the OP) as a blog entry.

If this were to occur I would certainly be down to contribute. There are plenty of great articles to write without stretching into Bondologist "How the Third Act Structure of COLD Fall Allegorize Late 1870s Belgian Economics" territory.

Amusing point there, but I see no sign of that blog-promoting guy here any more. Perhaps he just got fed up?

General Y Y wrote:

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

- Why not set-up our own blog rather than leeching off someone else? I could see Harms, trev, Wade, Brown, Sykes and others putting out great articles. Use some of our members' industry connections to score interviews with directors, DPs, title designers, composers, screenwriters, producers, authors, actors etc. We could also bring back the weekly debates but not just limit them to Bond (although that's what brought most of us here, we could probably write each other's answers and not be far off the mark. I swear, if I see another debate on David bleedin' Arnold I'm going mental) - we could post the question along with two or three best answers (chosen by the OP) as a blog entry.

If this were to occur I would certainly be down to contribute. There are plenty of great articles to write without stretching into Bondologist "How the Third Act Structure of COLD Fall Allegorize Late 1870s Belgian Economics" territory.

Amusing point there, but I see no sign of that blog-promoting guy here any more. Perhaps he just got fed up?

There's a good reason for that.

I banned him.

Largo's Shark wrote:

General Y Y wrote:

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

- Why not set-up our own blog rather than leeching off someone else? I could see Harms, trev, Wade, Brown, Sykes and others putting out great articles. Use some of our members' industry connections to score interviews with directors, DPs, title designers, composers, screenwriters, producers, authors, actors etc. We could also bring back the weekly debates but not just limit them to Bond (although that's what brought most of us here, we could probably write each other's answers and not be far off the mark. I swear, if I see another debate on David bleedin' Arnold I'm going mental) - we could post the question along with two or three best answers (chosen by the OP) as a blog entry.

If this were to occur I would certainly be down to contribute. There are plenty of great articles to write without stretching into Bondologist "How the Third Act Structure of COLD Fall Allegorize Late 1870s Belgian Economics" territory.

Amusing point there, but I see no sign of that blog-promoting guy here any more. Perhaps he just got fed up?

There's a good reason for that.

I banned him.

Oh! I hadn't expected that. May I ask why or is it a secret?