Bond 25 (2019)

Thinking. Mendes has ruled himself out of coming back, again so whoever comes in directorial wise -we get Arnold back? Is Arnold seen sort of like John Barry perhaps? THE man for Bond music having done all but two films since 1997 -Barry's 'heir'.

Early days but you have to think about these things.

As far as I know, Mendes said in an interview that he ruled himself out too early after SF and he ended up coming back. He said he'll wait to see before agreeing to/rejecting Bond 25.

That said, it's no secret I want Arnold back. But if we get a Joe Wright directed Bond flick, and he brings in his usual collaborator - Dario Marianelli - I'd love to hear what he can do.

Didn't know Mendes is considering coming back for 25. Interesting. I honestly think he would be the man to pull off the unused YOLT material if they wanted to go there. It seems like the natural place to go.

I don't want Arnold back. He's not Barry's heir and he had his run. If Newman doesn't return I rather EON look for new blood like Alberto Iglesias or Joe Kraemer. There are plenty of other composers outside of Arnold that could deliver something interesting for Bond.

I don't see him as Barry's heir neither just phrased it in the sense outsiders probably think of him. Rather the Iglesias option than a return for Arnold, more-so if Bond 25 ends up being a new Bond actor entirely.

Not sure it will arrive in 2017...

bitchcraft wrote:

Not sure it will arrive in 2017...

Not sure either. It may be pushed another year unless EON has a writer and director locked in time to deliver something. SPECTRE was originally listed for 2014, but EON couldn't find anyone interested with that release date set which is why they delayed it a year, as that meant they could get Mendes back.

Does Mendes have any definite plans after SPECTRE like he did after SKYFALL?

Not sure. I imagine he'll get back into theatre for a bit before his next film - Bond or not.

I also don't think we'll get Bond 25 in 2017. I even think 2018 will be a stretch to be honest.

I imagine that Mendes' potential return would hinge on the quality of the story being told. Thematically, I think the run from CR to SP - even QOS, heavy-handed as it was - is pretty solid; CR is Bond learning the nuances of being a blunt instrument; QOS is his learning the need to preserve his own judgement because he works on the frontier of morality; SF is what happens when the delicate balance between the ordered world and the shadow world collapses; an SP has Bond fighting against the physical manifestation of the Next Great Evil, a beast that feeds on our paranoia and insecurity. So to get Mendes back, BOND 25 would need to build on that. The only way forward that I can see is to have Blofeld's obsession with Bond lead to him willingly compromise and all but destroy SPECTRE, and Bond feel compelled to eliminate him despite his posing no threat. Probably through an adaptation of the Garden of Death.

Makeshift Python wrote:

Didn't know Mendes is considering coming back for 25. Interesting. I honestly think he would be the man to pull off the unused YOLT material if they wanted to go there. It seems like the natural place to go.

Except it's not the natural place to go. Unfortunately, SPECTRE establishes that

Spoiler:

G section wrote:

Makeshift Python wrote:

Didn't know Mendes is considering coming back for 25. Interesting. I honestly think he would be the man to pull off the unused YOLT material if they wanted to go there. It seems like the natural place to go.

Except it's not the natural place to go. Unfortunately, SPECTRE establishes that

Spoiler:

I mean it's natural as in

Spoiler:

Makeshift Python wrote:

I mean it's natural as in

Spoiler:

It wouldn't be difficult:

Spoiler:

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

I imagine that Mendes' potential return would hinge on the quality of the story being told. Thematically, I think the run from CR to SP - even QOS, heavy-handed as it was - is pretty solid; CR is Bond learning the nuances of being a blunt instrument; QOS is his learning the need to preserve his own judgement because he works on the frontier of morality; SF is what happens when the delicate balance between the ordered world and the shadow world collapses; an SP has Bond fighting against the physical manifestation of the Next Great Evil, a beast that feeds on our paranoia and insecurity. So to get Mendes back, BOND 25 would need to build on that. The only way forward that I can see is to have Blofeld's obsession with Bond lead to him willingly compromise and all but destroy SPECTRE, and Bond feel compelled to eliminate him despite his posing no threat. Probably through an adaptation of the Garden of Death.

Inclined to agree and as much as YOLT isn't really my favourite book, seeing the Garden of Death done right would be quite good.

Besides, Tom Hardy seems to think they won't break up the formula of Craig and Mendes but what doe she know?

The way I would do it is to have the road to Blofeld being synonymous with the battle against him. I'm picturing Bond having to go spelunking through a cave to access the Garden itself, battling scalding steam and toxic fumes. By the time he gets into the Garden proper, he's battered, bruised and bloody and physically exhausted - a cross between the Garden and Dr. No's endurance course. That way, the final fight is just that: a fight that only one can emerge from; even if the outcome has no consequences for the wider world, Bond and Blofeld cannot continue to co-exist.

I would be inclined to set it in Nepal rather than Japan, the literal ends of the earth, with Blofeld's fortress the frontier of the wilderness, and everything beyond a wasteland. But then, I have always seen YOLT as having very metaphysical themes, with Bond and Blofeld having transcended their roles and the conflict between them being the ultimate fight at the periphery of our awareness. Blofeld os the seed of evil taking root once more, and Bond is the one sent forward to stop the spread of his influence.

bitchcraft wrote:

Not sure it will arrive in 2017...

Is there a betting market on this? I won $1000 I'd like to put on it haha

Forgot to consider that the Sony deal expires with SPECTRE, so EON is a free agent after this with MGM needing a new partner, as they're in no position to handle Bond themselves. I have to assume because EON would want to avoid a hiatus, they would see to it that a new production partner is made. Might be WB, as they helped MGM a great deal to get the Hobbit movies going and those including Bond were probably the only legitimate successes at the box office.

Can see a long delay again, TBH. To make a decent Bond film nowadays seems to require such. And I think Craig could well be phased out of the role during the delay, because with the SPECTRE reveal spent and surely the last remaining "IT'S PERSONAL" twist spent, the only remaining avenue for reinvigoration would be a new lead actor. I'm guessing BOND 25 to come in 2019 with a new lead actor.

Makeshift Python wrote:

Forgot to consider that the Sony deal expires with SPECTRE, so EON is a free agent after this with MGM needing a new partner, as they're in no position to handle Bond themselves. I have to assume because EON would want to avoid a hiatus, they would see to it that a new production partner is made. Might be WB, as they helped MGM a great deal to get the Hobbit movies going and those including Bond were probably the only legitimate successes at the box office.

There'll be a bidding war but I'd put money on Sony wanting it back. Per yesterday's WSJ distributing Bond is pretty much a loss leader but it's a prestige ticket for them to attract talent and get cinema space and they're a major studio desperately clinging to anything else they have resembling a franchise. WB have the DC tentpoles and IP to fall back on for that purpose so I can't see them pursuing it too hotly.

I mean FOX might do it for synergies with their home video distribution deal but I'd be surprised to see them change distributors.

From MGM/Danjaq's point of view Sony has boosted them into the stratosphere throughout the Craig era so unless they get an amazing offer from someone else I can imagine them staying. You don't get much better than $1 billion grosses and SPECTRE's opening sales are bigger than SKYFALL's.

The one difference now is that EON no longer has a reliable ally in Sony with Amy Pascal, who backed EON's decisions. Now it's Tom Rothman, who's hell to work with and didn't even display confidence when asked about if there's a future with Bond. http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/06/02/sony-may-lose-007-seems-okay-with-it

Makeshift Python wrote:

EON no longer has a reliable ally in Sony with Amy Pascal, who backed EON's decisions

Except it was under Amy Pascal that Eon saw its scripts and private correspondence leaked for all to see. Hardly a reliable ally.

Even if that misstep hadn't happened, Danjaq will do what any well-run business or sensible individual does towards the end of a contract. Listen to all reasonable offers.

Sam Mendes says he won't return.

http://collider.com/james-bond-25-sam-mendes-not-directing/

Collider wrote:

Sam Mendes will not be returning to direct Bond 25. We know he said that about Spectre after debuting Skyfall, but this time he seems serious. Considering how long the director has been talking about the franchise’s commitment and struggles, there’s not much incentive for him to continue any further. While we should never say never when it comes to James Bond, Mendes reiterated his departure from the franchise with some pretty convincing reasons.

spectre-image-sam-mendes
Image via Sony Pictures and MGM
Deadline caught up with Mendes ahead of Spectre’s theatrical release, and the filmmaker likened the “regeneration” of the Bond franchise to Doctor Who, both of which have featured a slew of different actors in the title roles.

I grew up on Dr. Who, and its ideas of regeneration. People say, ‘Well, once you’ve acknowledged time passing and Bond getting older and characters dying, how do you continue the franchise?’ And the answer is you regenerate, and you have to be as brave as when they cast Daniel, and when they let M die. They have to go off in a completely different direction, into regenerating mythology. You cast a new actor and find a new director, and make something totally new. I can, off the top of my head, give you three or four ideas for where it could go next. They’re all daring and big. To me, the enemy is repetition and laziness, and the great danger is not challenging the preexisting format. These are my two chapters of the Bond myth. Someone else is going to write a chapter or 10 or 50, because Bond is strong enough for that, and because there’s enough to play with.
skyfall-sam-mendes-daniel-craig
Image via EON/MGM/Sony
Mendes realizes he’s done this whole song and dance before after finishing work on Skyfall, but, based on his comments, he had a convincing reason to change his tune for Spectre. For him, this film was the conclusion of what began with Daniel Craig in Casino Royale.

There is a sense of completeness that wasn’t there at the end of Skyfall, and that’s what makes this feel different. It feels like there’s a rightness to it, that I have finished a journey. I’m not talking about Daniel here because Daniel may absolutely turn around six months’ time and feel his energy renewed. Or he might say just the opposite. If he is as sensible as I think he is, he needs to go away and have some time to think and do another job that’s completely different, which he’s already doing with Othello.
These statements echo some of what Mendes said earlier this year about how Bond is essentially “rebooted” at the end of Spectre, allowing for a whole new story — and 007 — to unfold. Craig has been debating leaving the franchise, as well, though he’s teasing his answer way more than Mendes. When last we heard on the subject, the actor said he was ready to move on, but that if he decided to come back for Bond 25, he’d only do it for the money.

The only thing I believe he could have done justice was the Garden of Death. Maybe that's one of the three or four ideas he claims to have. Making this different from SKYFALL was the right call I think, whether he succeeded or not (I think he mostly did). It was a good run, but I welcome anyone else to give a crack at Bond for Craig's fifth and final film.

A Sam Mendes Garden of Death would be great, but I'd rather have a new actor in the role for Bond 25, and I imagine Craig would come back if Mendes did. Which brings me to this:

Michael G Wilson confirms there is no contract obliging Craig to return:

http://au.ign.com/articles/2015/11/07/daniel-craig-producer-michael-g-wilson-both-think-hell-reprise-role-for-james-bond-25

FieldsMan wrote:

A Sam Mendes Garden of Death would be great, but I'd rather have a new actor in the role for Bond 25, and I imagine Craig would come back if Mendes did. Which brings me to this:

Michael G Wilson confirms there is no contract obliging Craig to return:

http://au.ign.com/articles/2015/11/07/daniel-craig-producer-michael-g-wilson-both-think-hell-reprise-role-for-james-bond-25

There are only a few things I'm certain of about Bond 25, and Mendes not returning is one of them. Against his better judgement he came back for SPECTRE after the pleading and begging of Barbara and Amy, and now he's going to pay the price with tepid reviews and a lower performance at the box office. But I digress.

The worst thing anyone involved with BOND 25 could do would be to try and right the wrongs of SPECTRE. Whenever you start making a film to make up for the previous one, it always ends badly. First series that comes to mind (though there are several examples I could come up with) is ALIEN 3. They wrote that ending with such finality, filmed it, and then several years later Weaver had second thoughts about what she, and Fincher, had done to the series so 20TH CENTURY FOX and Weaver concoct a way to bring her back and keep telling the same story. And we got ALIEN RESURRECTION. Now they are working on ALIEN 5 (with Ripley yet again) and with Weaver yet again claiming this is the definitive send off for Ripley; a true sequel to ALIENS

Best thing for BOND 25 is to let SPECTRE close out the Craig chapter; let his Bond have the happy ending and go off into the sunset with Madeline. Don't try and make BOND 25 for all the wrong reasons. Don't dig a bigger hole. Just let Craig's Bond-universe end on this note and move on. Do a creative reboot and by "reboot" I mean clean house on the management side of things as well as the talent (time to move on from Purvis and Wade). Would be nice if Michael and Barbara would sell their rights, but that's not likely to happen, so the new studio partner is going to have to use some heavy leverage against Barbara to force her and Michael to acquiesce on some of the creative control. It's tempting to blame her advisers and co-producers, but what the leaked emails clearly showed was that EON was warned well in advance of many of the problems the script had and not only did they continue on full-bore, but they included many of the objectionable elements that they allegedly had hired Butterworth(?) to come in and fix at the last minute.

I'd suggest putting the series on ice for about 10 years and then coming back with a set of films set in the 50's (and with a lower budget), but the new studio won't want to wait that long to start earning money on their investment.

Craig needs to go, but so does everyone else, really. I'm not in favor of firing Fiennes and Harris (though I don't care for her as Moneypenny), but I also don't like the idea of someone else's rebooted characters showing up in yet another reboot; that was one of my chief complaints about bringing Dench back for Casino Royale (and for the record, Dench was my favorite M, but was allowed to stay in the role too long).

I just don't think there's going to be any audience appetite for a YOLT inspired BOND 25 where Bond goes rogue yet again and is out for "revenge" on a personal mission. They've gone to that well once too often.

You're probably right about righting the wrongs in Bond 25… Could just do what happened in OHMSS - Bond visits Blofeld and he doesn't recognise him, hence ignoring what's just happened in SP.