Sony leaks reveal wants for Idris for next Bond

Flush wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

Flush wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

Flush wrote:

Erica Ambler wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

How many white people do you know who go off jet-setting globally first class, killing people, bedding countless women, eating the finest food and drink, while driving around in an Aston Martin.....?

None. Which tends to suggest the colour of the skin isn't determinative of what James Bond does. That was my point.

Have you read the Fleming novels? Do you understand the origins of the character?

Yes, I have. The origin of the character is wish-fulfilment of a frustrated desk-jockey sailor acting out his personal fantasies having been prevented from fighting in World War 2.

Possibly time to cut the cord. Not sure that represents anything or anyone. Nor should it.

In which case why not start a new spy franchise with a black actor, with appropriate origins that could not possibly clash or confuse with a heritage, history and 60-odd years of baggage that comes with the Bond franchise.

I think Elba is cool and would love to see him in a new action spy movie.

Who determines "appropriate origins" though?

Unless they re-reboot and give period pieces, if they were trying to make films that commented at all on race (which I really believe they're not), aren't the Fleming origins of Bond now just as odd and unlikely for a white person as they would be for a black person? Any person?

I think that was my point. I may be wrong, I don't mind being wrong and I have no manifesto to promote, but I'm a bit lost why for films evidently being set in the here-and-now - if not five minutes into the future - there's a clinging to [adopts General Orlov voice] Out-Dated! Imperialist! Dogma!

Once you lose that essential part of the character, Bond's slight upper-class roots, old-fashioned Imperialist perspective, which the English gentleman spy is still perceived as in most part of the world, then any drastic newer take on modernising the character could arguably turn Bond into just another generic action hero in a spy movie.

In which case, begs the question, why not simply start a new franchise that won't possibly be in danger of alienating an existing fan-base, instead of trying to pass it off as a faithful adaptation of Fleming (which is what EON have been trying very hard to do in the most recent films with Craig in the role).

The franchise has only really survived all these years because it always reverts back to the origins of Fleming when it loses its way. Cubby once famously was quoted as saying this (after the mess of Moonraker). Having a black actor in the role, and then trying to attempt a return to a true Fleming adaptation of one of his novels could lead to its fair share of problems.....LALD immediately springs to mind, as does Dr. No (Quarrel's role), or any of the novels where it is set in a far-flung corner of the world where racism is still rife, and a black Bond is no longer perceived in the same way Fleming wrote him.

All noted, but do you think they would try to return to do any "adaptation" of those books with an actor of any skin colour?

Is any Bond perceived in the same way Fleming wrote him? The Craig reboot seems to introduce elements of the melancholia of the Fleming Bond, but I suspect we won't get the views on Koreans, women and homosexuals whoever plays him. SPECTRE may yet surprise me, I suppose.

I guess the bone of contention is "adaptation".

It's not an adaptation though… It's a continuation. Now unless Bond undergoes some kind of gene therapy, there's no need for Bond to be colour.

Nor Australian, Welsh or Irish, on that logic?

Still caucasian.

FieldsMan wrote:

It's not an adaptation though… It's a continuation. Now unless Bond undergoes some kind of gene therapy, there's no need for Bond to be colour.

Indeed FM, indeed.

Though the bit about gene therapy got me thinking about something about OHMSS, that to explain the new Bond they were going to have some kind of scene involving Bond coming out of surgery. Maybe they could do that if Elba gets going.

Ha maybe Hilly… But it was dropped for a reason in OHMSS…

Oh no, Elba seems tied up for next few years then he'll definitely be too old.

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/idris-elba-developing-thriller-poe-must-die-as-trilogy-1201403339/

He missed. What a pity.

Don't worry, an old Elba can get the next M gig.

Don't think anyone will have a problem with that, even Rush.

FieldsMan wrote:

Makeshift Python wrote:

It's not as simple as that.

Quote :

“We’re seeing Hollywood continue the trend of whitewashing roles from source material that features Asian and Asian American leads while failing to provide roles for Asian American actors,”

Hiring a black actor for Bond isn't exactly the same equivalent. It's not as if white actors are finding it harder to get jobs than people of other ethnicities.

If casting Elba is only because black actors have more difficulty finding work then someone should create their own series with a black OO agent. There's no point in changing the background of James Bond purely because a certain ethnicity are going through some hard times with work. It's called casting, and actors learn very early on what their casting is. I'm an actor and I know that playing Bond is never gonna happen for me - even if I'm the right age - because I look Italian and am too short.

Let me get more into it, as that post I made wasn't clear. Elba shouldn't be cast only because black actors have more difficulty finding work, it should be because he has all the qualities that make one suitable for Bond, and he does. Now, onto a different point, actors of different ethnicities find it harder to get work and that whole thing with GHOST IN A SHELL is a representation of it. Whitewashing is not okay, but it's fine to do that the other way around, with the exception of a character's heritage being vital to the story. Bond's background is never really a factor, as the stories are always about the present situation.

Quote :

But you'll never see Daniel Craig playing an Italian gangster, or Brad Pitt playing Mandela.

We're already seeing him play James Bond, despite not looking the part. We've already got a black Leiter and Moneypenny. The series has already crossed several thresholds that asking for the series to remain true to what Fleming wrote on the page is futile. The best we can ask for at this point is that they keep the spirit of Fleming alive as they go for new aesthetics.

Quote :

If Idris Elba becomes Bond get ready for Angelina Jolie as his successor.

In case you didn't notice, Angelina Jolie is actually a woman.

Quote :

But you'll never see Daniel Craig playing an Italian gangster

We've seen Craig play a Polish Jew. Give him some black hair dye and a fake tan and it should work.

Daniel Craig with black hair can never work.

that's wrong for a few reasons. But just wrong.

Oh shit. Forgot that.

'twas a better film than CAPOTE, though. Had a soul to it.

The films are adaptations, in every sense of the word.

The tosser who wrote that article is clearly basing his thought-provoking, highly intelligent opinion on the character from the films, and not from the novels.

What a Prick!!!

They'll give knighthoods to anyone these days.

jet set willy wrote:

The tosser who wrote that article is clearly basing his thought-provoking, highly intelligent opinion on the character from the films, and not from the novels.

What a Prick!!!

It's a spoof letter from Private Eye. Surely the "Loonraker" and "Sir Herbert Gusset" gave that away.

Has a bit of a point, though.

I look forward to reading Dave Spart's counter-thrust.

Flush wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

The tosser who wrote that article is clearly basing his thought-provoking, highly intelligent opinion on the character from the films, and not from the novels.

What a Prick!!!

It's a spoof letter from Private Eye. Surely the "Loonraker" and "Sir Herbert Gusset" gave that away.

Has a bit of a point, though.

The 3 dimensional bit maybe, as the majority of Bond films haven't been grounded in any realism or character-based storylines that Fleming tried to create.

But that shift has changed somewhat with Craig's movies, where an attempt has been made to flesh out the character of Bond beyond tongue-in-cheek, smarmy one-liners while raising an eyebrow.

Anyone who prefers the novels to the films will probably be against any actor playing Bond who is anything but white, as this is not the Bond Fleming created.

Anyone who prefers movie Bond probably won't give a shit.....

jet set willy wrote:

Flush wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

The tosser who wrote that article is clearly basing his thought-provoking, highly intelligent opinion on the character from the films, and not from the novels.

What a Prick!!!

It's a spoof letter from Private Eye. Surely the "Loonraker" and "Sir Herbert Gusset" gave that away.

Has a bit of a point, though.

The 3 dimensional bit maybe, as the majority of Bond films haven't been grounded in any realism or character-based storylines that Fleming tried to create.

But that shift has changed somewhat with Craig's movies, where an attempt has been made to flesh out the character of Bond beyond tongue-in-cheek, smarmy one-liners while raising an eyebrow.

Anyone who prefers the novels to the films will probably be against any actor playing Bond who is anything but white, as this is not the Bond Fleming created.

Anyone who prefers movie Bond probably won't give a shit.....

Suspect they're the vast majority of the audience.

Flush wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

Flush wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

The tosser who wrote that article is clearly basing his thought-provoking, highly intelligent opinion on the character from the films, and not from the novels.

What a Prick!!!

It's a spoof letter from Private Eye. Surely the "Loonraker" and "Sir Herbert Gusset" gave that away.

Has a bit of a point, though.

The 3 dimensional bit maybe, as the majority of Bond films haven't been grounded in any realism or character-based storylines that Fleming tried to create.

But that shift has changed somewhat with Craig's movies, where an attempt has been made to flesh out the character of Bond beyond tongue-in-cheek, smarmy one-liners while raising an eyebrow.

Anyone who prefers the novels to the films will probably be against any actor playing Bond who is anything but white, as this is not the Bond Fleming created.

Anyone who prefers movie Bond probably won't give a shit.....

Suspect they're the vast majority of the audience.

Sad but most likely true, although I still think there would be a huge backlash, and it would open all sorts of PC/racist debates across the globe, if such a casting ever did happen. This type of casting would be seen as way more controversial than the casting of Craig with his blonde hair.

If EON is ever gonna cast another blond actor for Bond, I'd like to see Dan Stevens have a crack at it. I really enjoyed his reading of Fleming's Casino Royale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya9PL5Bd9Js

I'm up for Keira Knightley. She's the right skin colour for Bond.