Sony leaks reveal wants for Idris for next Bond

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

I didn't see THE EQUALIZER, but that doesn't make me racist. I didn't go because I don't like Denzel Washington. He tends to repeat every line he says. Haven't you noticed the way he tends to repeat himself? Maybe not every line, but most of them. Most of them.

I liked The Equalizer although his fight scenes in Book of Eli were more fun to watch. He wasn't repetitive in either of these films, they were both quite good in my opinion. I like Denzel, he doesn't go on black tangents like some of his annoying contemporaries.

bitchcraft wrote:

I told people that black Annie would fail too. Nyah nyah to Jamie Foxx. Why aren't millions of black people going to see it?

They're out protesting in the streets?

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Incidentally, in the leaked SONY emails, execs have accused worldwide audiences of being racist because the foreign BO for Equalizer was only 90m, (compared to 100m in the USA, which is a good domestic haul) and they claim that worldwide audiences won't go for a black lead.

There's only been one non-Maxwell Moneypenny performance that I thought was as good as Lois Maxwell and that was Caroline Bliss in TLD; her role in LTK was so small that it was essentially non-existent and doesn't rate comparison.

I despised Samantha Bond's vulgar, foul-mouthed Moneypenny, so the somewhat more innocently chaste banter between Craig and Harris makes her Moneypenny rate higher with me than anything Samantha Bond ever did.

What does it say about the rest of the world that they, on the whole, appear not to be interested in seeing African-American persons of color in lead roles? Hollywood is increasingly reliant on pre-sold material i.e. franchises, series, book and comic properites that already have built in awareness and do not necessarily need a big name star to anchor the movie. That doesn't mean that Jennifer Lawrence isn't good as Katniss or Chris Evans isn't a great Captain America; but those properties could have been equally successful had they cast a different, but capable, actor/actress.

What it does mean is that the big $15-20 million dollar paydays for people like Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise, and Julia Roberts are probably over and a thing of the past. Look at the Top 10 films of the year. Only one of them, I think, might have been dependent upon getting the right actor/actress, and that was MALEFICENT. Just about anything else was already established. Did anyone go see GODZILLA because of Aaron Johnson? Is Martin Freeman a bankable film star outside of The Bobbitt?

The pool of white Hellywood stars capable of pulling down a big paycheck and headlining a major motion picture is thinning, and since blacks of color make up only 12% of the American population, it stands to reason that there would be only a few capable of headlining a picture overseas that makes any sort of money or has any sort of prospect to make money. That list has usually been limited to Will Smith (whose career has faded so badly that he's agreed to star in the ensemble pic SUICIDE SQUAD as Deadshot), Denzel Washington (a draw, but never as big as Will Smith), and Halle Berry.

But I digress. People of blackness may not be doing well in feature films, but they do very well overseas in the music and sports industry. African-American persons of color are HUUUUUGE in China, Korea, Japan, and Europe; Lebron James and the rest of the NBA are worshipped as Gods over in Asia, and the rap industry has a huge presence in Europe. Jay-Z, Beyonce, etc...are also big in Europe. Heck, Tina Turner was so popular in Europe she eventually moved there, got married to a European-Caucasian person-of-no-color, and has obtained Swiss citizenship.

Diversity of outcome is just as valid as any other type of diversity. Some people do better in one field or industry, some in another. Blacks persons of color are vastly over-sampled and over-represented in football (70%) and the NBA (80%), so until we level the playing field and make those revenue streams more accessible to Jewish and Asian-Americans, I won't pull out a box of Kleenex and weep for blacks just yet.

Then there's STAR WARS, which will now have John Boyega playing a lead. Pretty cool, I think. He deserves it not cause he's black but because he's talented and charismatic.

Hasn't he only been in a few shitball films?

Control wrote:

Hasn't he only been in a few shitball films?

He's an unknown to me, so I'm adopting a wait and see approach. I'd still go because of the Star Wars brand though.

Can't be any worse than Mark Hamill.

Control wrote:

Can't be any worse than Mark Hamill.

Ahmed Best.

Makeshift Python wrote:

Then there's STAR WARS, which will now have John Boyega playing a lead. Pretty cool, I think. He deserves it not cause he's black but because he's talented and charismatic.

Why is it "cool"? We've had black actors in Star Wars films before: Billy Dee Wallace (also starred in E.T., another Spielberg picture), Samuel L. Jackson, James Earl Jones, and Ahmed Best.

Was Boyega up for the same role that Jesse Plemons auditioned for? And didn't Thomas Howes also audition for the role that Boyega got?

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Makeshift Python wrote:

Then there's STAR WARS, which will now have John Boyega playing a lead. Pretty cool, I think. He deserves it not cause he's black but because he's talented and charismatic.

Why is it "cool"? We've had black actors in Star Wars films before: Billy Dee Wallace (also starred in E.T., another Spielberg picture), Samuel L. Jackson, James Earl Jones, and Ahmed Best.

I said that he's playing the lead character, not a supporting role like those actors you mention. I said it's cool because not only will that be a change from having a just another white lead like in the last six films (Hamill, Neeson, McGregor), but that he has the talent to carry a film. Unless you never noticed, Hollywood doesn't typically cast up and coming actors of color in leading roles of big tentpole films unless they're massive stars who've already made it big like Will Smith or Denzel Washington.

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Was Boyega up for the same role that Jesse Plemons auditioned for? And didn't Thomas Howes also audition for the role that Boyega got?

Maybe (I think Plemons was up for the role Driver got), and but if you suggest that all of them were up for the same role, that would be pretty cool that the filmmakers were casting any young talent regardless of skin color. Surely you agree that's a good way to process the casting?

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

bitchcraft wrote:

I told people that black Annie would fail too. Nyah nyah to Jamie Foxx. Why aren't millions of black people going to see it?

They're out protesting in the streets?

Quote :

Incidentally, in the leaked SONY emails, execs have accused worldwide audiences of being racist because the foreign BO for Equalizer was only 90m, (compared to 100m in the USA, which is a good domestic haul) and they claim that worldwide audiences won't go for a black lead.

There's only been one non-Maxwell Moneypenny performance that I thought was as good as Lois Maxwell and that was Caroline Bliss in TLD; her role in LTK was so small that it was essentially non-existent and doesn't rate comparison.

I despised Samantha Bond's vulgar, foul-mouthed Moneypenny, so the somewhat more innocently chaste banter between Craig and Harris makes her Moneypenny rate higher with me than anything Samantha Bond ever did.

Poor Caroline Bliss. Her and Robert Brown are severely underused and underwritten. Bliss never really got a fair shot at it. Maxwell really should have gotten the boot years earlier. She definitely shouldn't have been around for the 80s films. Her last decent outing in my opinion was Live and Let Die.  But then again, I guess a young women getting hit on by an an aging Roger Moore in the 80s would have been awkward.

Never cared for Samantha Bond. I don't blame her, that falls on the writers and producers. But with her it's mostly how many cock jokes can we make.

Craig and Harris, from what I've seen of Skyfall, has been pretty well done.

Robert Brown was retired by the time GE came out, so it wasn't a conscious decision of EON's to not bring him back.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I despised Samantha Bond's vulgar, foul-mouthed Moneypenny

That's why I liked her...

bitchcraft wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I despised Samantha Bond's vulgar, foul-mouthed Moneypenny

That's why I liked her...

Sometimes less is more. When Bond tells M about Paris Carver: "I doubt she'll remember me" and M replies "Remind her", it took a second for the audience to make the connection to what M was actually suggesting, then they laughed hard. It was brilliantly acted. But then the writers can't stop themselves from leaving well-enough alone. The rest of the line "Then pump her for information", "You'll just have to decide how much pumping is needed, James" was a case of overkill.

Other jokes about virtual sex, vibrators and being a cunninglundquist show a lack of imagination on the writer's part.

I prefer the subtler flirtations between Bond and Moneypenny, such as "Anytime you want to come over and listen to my Barry Manilow collection", or "I'm sure we'll have a few more close shaves." Let the mind fill in the blanks.

Agreed. FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE actually did it better with M when it came to that kind of dialogue.

James Bond: "Suppose when she meets me in the flesh I-I don't come up to expectations?"
M: "Just see that you do."

Makeshift Python wrote:

I said that he's playing the lead character, not a supporting role like those actors you mention. I said it's cool because not only will that be a change from having a just another white lead like in the last six films (Hamill, Neeson, McGregor), but that he has the talent to carry a film.

I don't know if he has the talent to carry a film; I've never seen him in anything. And I never considered Star Wars to really have a lead actor, though. I always thought it was an ensemble, so from my perspective, Sam Jackson and Billy Dee Wallace had equal billing with everyone else.

I didn't even know Boyega had a "lead role" in this film till people started losing their minds on YouTube because of a black storm trooper. Good thing he's not being directed by George Lucas; now his career has a better chance of surviving after Star Wars.

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Unless you never noticed, Hollywood doesn't typically cast up and coming actors of color in leading roles of big tentpole films unless they're massive stars who've already made it big like Will Smith or Denzel Washington.

What is your definition of "actors of color"? I ask, because the only two examples you cite are Denzel and Will. Are Asians considered people of color? What about Latinos? At this point in cinematic history, is it really all that progressive or trend setting to hire a black actor for anything? We've kind of been there, done that.

Sanaa Lathan in ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR (just turned out that a sequel never really materialized)
Laurence Fishburne in THE MATRIX (taking a role that Sean Connery turned down, and Will Smith turned down the role of Neo).
Danny Glover in all the LETHAL WEAPONS films
Idris Elba (Pacific Rim and upcoming sequel)
Kerry Washington (the lead on one of the highest rated shows on tv, SCANDAL)
Vin Diesel (THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS)
Michael B. Jordan (THE FANTASTIC FOUR playing white character Johnny Storm; I guess he's going to be Sue Storm's "brother from another mother")
Halle Berry (Catwoman; playing a white character rewritten to be "Patience Phillips" instead of Selina Kyle)
LL Cool J (NCIS Los Angeles)
Eddie Murphy (Beverly Hills Cop)
Chris Tucker (RUSH HOUR 1, 2 and 3)

That's just a sampling. A lot of actors get cast in movies but they aren't successful enough to warrant sequels.

And there are plenty of blacks on television. In fact, there's so many, they've had to create their own network: BET.

And I'm hearing really, really good, positive things about this show called Sorority Sisters on VH1:

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Maybe (I think Plemons was up for the role Driver got), and but if you suggest that all of them were up for the same role, that would be pretty cool that the filmmakers were casting any young talent regardless of skin color. Surely you agree that's a good way to process the casting?

Talent is important, but it can't be the sole criteria. I caught about 2 minutes of THE SOUND OF MUSIC tonight and found myself wondering if I could accept a "person of color" in a remake of this film. How exactly would a black woman playing Maria work? I mean, somethings simply cannot be "colorblind casting" or else the entire authenticity of the premise falls apart. Which goes back to Bond...since he is an extension of Ian Fleming's "id", he is in effect a historical figure, and cannot be loosely played by just any old actor.

The GE exchange between Bond and Moneypenny was probably Samantha Bond's best. But it went downhill from there. TWINE was a bit of a low point, because Moneypenny's jealousy towards Goodhead undermined the character. As much as they flirt with one another, I see Bond and Moneypenny as being more affectionate than intimate. But Moneypenny's parthian shot at Goodhead implied that she suddenly had deeper feelings for Bond, feelings that had never been suggested or addressed before.

But no, DAD proved that it could get worse with the virtual reality sex machine. Never mind how juvenile it was; unless Moneypenny is proficient in programming sophisticated computer coding, MI6 apparently have a "have sex with Bond" simulation lying around. Why on earth do they have this!? Aside from being a gross misappropriation of taxpayer money to fulfil a civil servant's fantasies, nobody has any need of such a program. If they're really that desperate, they all know where Bond's office is.

Makeshift Python wrote:

Robert Brown was retired by the time GE came out, so it wasn't a conscious decision of EON's to not bring him back.

Huh? I'm pretty sure it was a conscious decision not to bring him back, the same way it was a conscious decision not to bring back Richard Maibaum or John Glen. Okay, yeah, technically Richard Maibaum was dead, but they fired him back in 1991 in an effort to clean house.

I liked Robert Brown, but he was never going to come back. Neither was Dalton. I don't know when Babs had Dench in mind, but I'm pretty sure the plan was always for M to be recast as a woman once Babs got assumed full and absolute control of the series.

I'm clearly talking about the main protagonist roles like Luke Skywalker, not supporting roles like Mace Windu.

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Talent is important, but it can't be the sole criteria. I caught about 2 minutes of THE SOUND OF MUSIC tonight and found myself wondering if I could accept a "person of color" in a remake of this film. How exactly would a black woman playing Maria work? I mean, somethings simply cannot be "colorblind casting" or else the entire authenticity of the premise falls apart. Which goes back to Bond...since he is an extension of Ian Fleming's "id", he is in effect a historical figure, and cannot be loosely played by just any old actor.

Well no shit. THE SOUND OF MUSIC is a period piece about a specific family of a demographic. That's totally different from STAR WARS where the characters are entirely fictional from a galaxy far far away, so there's a lot more flexibility when it comes to casting any actor of a demographic. Race/demographic only becomes a real factor depending on the story being told set in real life. If EON had decided to cast Bond with a Black actor in a film set in the 1950s, that would be absurd.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Makeshift Python wrote:

Robert Brown was retired by the time GE came out, so it wasn't a conscious decision of EON's to not bring him back.

Huh? I'm pretty sure it was a conscious decision not to bring him back, the same way it was a conscious decision not to bring back Richard Maibaum or John Glen. Okay, yeah, technically Richard Maibaum was dead, but they fired him back in 1991 in an effort to clean house.

I liked Robert Brown, but he was never going to come back. Neither was Dalton. I don't know when Babs had Dench in mind, but I'm pretty sure the plan was always for M to be recast as a woman once Babs got assumed full and absolute control of the series.

Actually, that's not the case. M was still being written as a man in the early drafts of GOLDENEYE. It was actually Micky G. who came up with the idea of having a new M introduced as a woman later. Judi Dench's casting was Babs' choice.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

TWINE was a bit of a low point, because Moneypenny's jealousy towards Goodhead undermined the character. As much as they flirt with one another, I see Bond and Moneypenny as being more affectionate than intimate. But Moneypenny's parthian shot at Goodhead implied that she suddenly had deeper feelings for Bond, feelings that had never been suggested or addressed before.

Holly Goodhead was in Moonraker.  In TWINE, Demeaned Tart A was called Alotta Fagina.

Well, who was it then? The doctor in the castle. I can't remember her name.

Molly Warmflash. Or Warmflesh. Something silly, I forget exactly.

Warmflash. I thought she was a new addition to the MI6 supporting cast but that never happened. Was probably best that she didn't, as it was already getting crowded with her, Tanner, and Robinson all delivering exposition.

FieldsMan wrote:

If Sean Connery or Cubby Broccol were alive today they'd slap Babs for what she's done to this once proud and historic franchise. This "EQUALS" video is a mockery of everything the James Bond series ever stood for. You can literally feel the guilt and the shame seeping out of Bab's pours pores; almost as if she feels embarrassed to be the producer of this series and to enjoy the immense wealth and privilege that she inherited from a character that made "sexism" fashionable and entertaining. Babs is preaching feminism and using Bond as an intellectual and emotional punching bag; a property that she can exploit to push a social agenda, then turn around and sell out her sisterhood for a billion dollar payday. What a hypocrite!

RIP Sean Connery.

Makeshift Python wrote:

Robert Brown was retired by the time GE came out, so it wasn't a conscious decision of EON's to not bring him back.

Good. Because he was shit.

You guys haven't seen Luther yet? You missed out, I really tell you . I wouldn't have a problem with a black Bond. But whoever wants to at least discuss this really really really must see Elba as Luther. This guy has power like C4, he'D wash the screen with an army of white contenders. I'm a firm backer of Fassbende but Elba would be hands down my second choice the guy is so da*n intense.