Christmas Jones

Interesting article someone shared on Facebook about Denise Richards' Christmas Jones.

https://medium.com/@leiladaisyj/the-world-is-not-enough-and-the-believability-of-dr-christmas-jones-c8524993c0d1

I agree Richards doesn't deserve the level of hate lobbied at her. She's not the best but she's certainly not the worst. Whatever your opinion of Christmas, it's a fairly objective article on the character.

I've been in some ongoing FB discussion due to the same article via the Ian Fleming page.

My feeling is this:

I've never understood the dislike for the character as it all fits, and Richards does what she can with a woefully underwritten plot exposition part that only serves to move plot, give nuclear backgrounds and give Bond an end titles companion. I like the spunk she put into the role when actually given dialogue as these kinds of roles are extremely difficult to do and make the mumbo jumbo of exposition not berate the audience. The kind of hate Christmas Jones gets is undeserved as that should all be directed towards the next film and the horrors of Jinx.

After a certain point Jones has no purpose of being in the film. TWINE doesn't need this character and could have used the available time freed up to develop Renard, Elektra and Bond's relationship with both-thus giving the film the deeper emotional context it wants to create and thus be able to segue perfectly into Arnold's original end title "Only Myself to Blame".

hegottheboot wrote:

I've been in some ongoing FB discussion due to the same article via the Ian Fleming page.

My feeling is this:

I've never understood the dislike for the character as it all fits, and Richards does what she can with a woefully underwritten plot exposition part that only serves to move plot, give nuclear backgrounds and give Bond an end titles companion. I like the spunk she put into the role when actually given dialogue as these kinds of roles are extremely difficult to do and make the mumbo jumbo of exposition not berate the audience. The kind of hate Christmas Jones gets is undeserved as that should all be directed towards the next film and the horrors of Jinx.

After a certain point Jones has no purpose of being in the film. TWINE doesn't need this character and could have used the available time freed up to develop Renard, Elektra and Bond's relationship with both-thus giving the film the deeper emotional context it wants to create and thus be able to segue perfectly into Arnold's original end title "Only Myself to Blame".

I agree with the first paragraph (especially the "spunk" Richards injects into the character that I've only seen timmer and myself defend), though similarly, I feel Halle Berry shouldn't shoulder the responsibility of Jinx's shortcomings, since she's playing an obnoxious character. It's her job to make it convincing and I think she does. 

Beyond the pipeline sequence, she's a peripheral character in all scenes (another reason why I can't understand the hate for the entire film based on Richards' casting as the character). The caviar factory sequence is about Zukovsky, the Maidens Tower sequence, is about Bond and Elektra, the submarine is about stopping Renard. Take her out of those scenes and there's still not a lot of available screen time to develop Renard/Elektra. Perhaps she could have been killed off instead being taken prisoner, or even released into Istanbul, since Renard was going to destroy the city anyway. Holding her hostage in the sub I suppose allows for higher personal stakes (Jones representing the collateral damage; the wider city, I suppose), as well as a drenched white tee. 

While I love Arnold's Bond theme over the credits, Only Myself to Blame is a missed opportunity.

There are so many worst Bond girls than Denise Richards.   Why is she often considered to be the worst?

I asked people before and it was said that it's because people pick on her because of the movie Wild Things, which came out the previous year.  Now I never watched Wild Things, till recently to see what that was all about.

But really?  Is Wild Things really the movie that caused her to become the worst Bond girl by many?  Why?

I feel that the worst Bond girl for me is Mary Goodnight by far. Christmas Jones and Jinx are so much better when you compare her to that. There are also other Bond girls that are terrible such as the two Japanese girls from You Only Live Twice.

Whilst I loathed Christmas Jones on the previous incarnation of this forum and contributed to more than one rant against her, I now perceive the character primarily as a failure of writing. Denise Richards - within her limitations - did the best she could with what she had to work with.

The core of the issue is that it might be fun to create a character as a running gag ("Haha lets make Denise Richards a nuclear physicist") but it is not necessarily as fun to see that joke unfold over a a 2+ hour movie.

ironpony wrote:

There are so many worst Bond girls than Denise Richards.   Why is she often considered to be the worst?

I asked people before and it was said that it's because people pick on her because of the movie Wild Things, which came out the previous year.  Now I never watched Wild Things, till recently to see what that was all about.

But really?  Is Wild Things really the movie that caused her to become the worst Bond girl by many?  Why?

I just think she lost some of her sheen...

Denise Richards doesn't get the Bond gig without "Wild Things".

Besides that role, she was really only known for Verhoeven's ironic casting of her in his "Starship Troopers".

Salomé wrote:

The core of the issue is that it might be fun to create a character as a running gag ("Haha lets make Denise Richards a nuclear physicist") but it is not necessarily as fun to see that joke unfold over a a 2+ hour movie.

She's in it for about 15 minutes-- 20 at the most. Hardly a dent in the film overall.

This discussion has actually - quite randomly - reminded me about an anecdote about "Starship Troopers". Supposedly - in true Paul Verhoeven fashion - the Dutch director shot a scene in which Casper Van Dien feels up Denise Richards' breasts, but the scene did not make the final cut of the movie. Not sure why not, since it already got an R rating in the U.S.

Lucky man.

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Erica Ambler wrote:

Salomé wrote:

This discussion has actually - quite randomly - reminded me about an anecdote about "Starship Troopers". Supposedly - in true Paul Verhoeven fashion - the Dutch director shot a scene in which Casper Van Dien feels up Denise Richards' breasts, but the scene did not make the final cut of the movie. Not sure why not, since it already got an R rating in the U.S.

Starship Troopers' shower scene is generally brought up when discussing Verhoeven's 'spontaneous' methods of direction. Maybe a matter of time before the feminazis come for him too.

Is this the bit about him shooting that scene in the buff himself to reassure his young cast?

The feminazis already came for him. They hate "Elle", for one thing.

I have always loved Verhoeven. Even his mishits are still quite amusing.

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Salomé wrote:

I have always loved Verhoeven. Even his mishits are still quite amusing.

I want to check out more of his films. I enjoyed Black Book, Basic Instinct and from memory, Robocop.

ironpony wrote:

There are so many worst Bond girls than Denise Richards.   Why is she often considered to be the worst?

I asked people before and it was said that it's because people pick on her because of the movie Wild Things, which came out the previous year.  Now I never watched Wild Things, till recently to see what that was all about.

But really?  Is Wild Things really the movie that caused her to become the worst Bond girl by many?  Why?

I feel that the worst Bond girl for me is Mary Goodnight by far.  Christmas Jones and Jinx  are so much better when you compare her to that.  There are also other Bond girls that are terrible such as the two Japanese girls from You Only Live Twice.

I think it's a case of the general public knowing a bit about the actor's private life which influences how they see the character. Which is fair - Denise Richards probably shouldn't ever had been a Bond girl. Personally, I like the spunk she lends the character, and it's a good point of difference when she's alongside Sophie Marceau (I've always liked Bond's condescension toward her in her earlier scenes). She's certainly not the best, but far from the worst.

I don't mind Aki in YOLT, and Kissy is inoffensive. I'd place Jinx and Goodnight side by side for reasons referenced in this thread:
https://bondandbeyond.forumotion.com/t3387-the-difference-between-a-poor-performance-and-a-good-performance-of-a-poorly-written-character

Worst Bond girl for me would be Madeleine or Vesper.

I think Paul Verhoeven has always had an interest in human nature. His appraisal of it is somewhat misanthropic in nature, but one can hardly blame him. This applies to his best work as well as the movies of his that are deemed more forgettable. "Hollow Man" was thoroughly panned by critics but I found it to be perhaps the most interesting 'invisible man film' when it came to how it approached the psychology of the afflicted individual.

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I mean pieces like this, but there were many like it upon the movie's release:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/the-phony-sexual-transgressions-of-paul-verhoevens-elle

I don't think "Hollow Man" is among his best work. I would deem it a step above amusing nonsense like "Spetters" or "Showgirls". At the same time, I think there is a certain value in the underlying psychology of the main character.

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Was Dublo the one who used to humblebrag about himself and the ginger model?

Fields Man has mentioned Denise Richards and 'spunk' twice in this thread now, and yet I have failed to make any smutty jokes. For shame.

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Erica Ambler wrote:

Salomé wrote:

I mean pieces like this, but there were many like it upon the movie's release:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/the-phony-sexual-transgressions-of-paul-verhoevens-elle

I can't say I understand that anymore than I did the femme backlash against Bladerunner 2049. Dublo spent as much time tweeting about that as he did his latest divorce.

Dublo is divorced? I didn't even know he was married.

Erica Ambler wrote:

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Was Dublo the one who used to humblebrag about himself and the ginger model?

That’s him. Would joke about sodomising the ginger, underage girls and the joys of buttplugs then became a mod and started lecturing the rest of us on how to behave decently. It worked on Oppers, who would purr like a kitten whenever he posted a Nokia pic of himself in a C&A suit.

I honestly hadn't thought of him in ages. I don't think he ever posted on this forum, did he?

Dublo was occasionally quite funny before he joined the ranks of the Modtroopers.

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Twice divorced? Was he already divorced once back at the old forum? Or are you talking about two marriages since then?

Quite obviously I'm too old for Dublo.

St. George is another former poster I hadn't thought about in a long time.

I vaguely remember those two were somewhat friendly in real life as well?

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