Do you think the villain is genius or ridiculous?

Elliot Carver just maybe my favorite villain of the entire series, if I had to pick, but it's a tough call. However, I've noticed fans are very split on him with half saying he is ahead of it's time, and that his villain plot is more relevant today, and the other half saying this plot is ridiculous and too silly, over the top...

What do you think?

'Starting a war for ratings' is possibly a bit OTT, then again TND is one of the 'lighter' Bonds.

The points it has to make about media manipulation and control are certainly prescient.

Carver is a grower. At first he may seem simple or not physically menacing but its the nuances, the silences, the glowering closeups of Pryce's stock still performance that provide the menace. The curl of the lip, the delusions of grandeur that indicate utter madness.

Over time I think I love him more and more, thank God Pryce was able to step in and just sink his teeth in gloriously, and that he's the best villain of the Brosnan era. While I LOVE Trevalyan's dialogue and setup and Bean's performance its a very subdued relationship with Bond whereas Carver gets more opportunities to shine in the traditional villain sense. I Love Elektra and Renard but their effectiveness is hurt by the plot's inadequacies.

The only bit that doesn't work for me is when Carver does fake-fu. It's a bit much.

Great summary Boots, had any other actor played Carver it might have worked (I have it in my head Geoffrey Rush but he'd do fine). That kung fu bit is too far.

My two cents is that he's both genius and ridiculous. The latter as he has, like all villains, a grandiose plan he thinks he can pull off, he's willing to kill his wife (or have her killed), has a typical henchman and is a little bit a caricature.

Genius in that he very nearly starts a war between two countries (I was going to write superpowers and well...) and does so reasonably cleverly.

I chalk that up to the onset rewrites and script troubles which turned a film about the HK handover into YOLT part 3: TSWLM The 90's action movie experience. The original concept of Harmsway was seemingly a bit darker but in a similar vein. Benson's first novel Zero Minus Ten came out the same year and he plays around a bit with a similar villain but tinkers with the typical setup.

Must have another crack at Zero Minus Ten sometime; I have a copy due to a Tomorrow Never Dies VHS special edition pack that included it. Never made it past the Mah Jong game ... no offence to Benson, but he really doesn't share Fleming's skill for making the gaming tables exciting.

hegottheboot wrote:

The original concept of Harmsway was seemingly a bit darker but in a similar vein.

Darker? I recall the most prominent aspect of the script that hung around from first draft to finished product is the showman-like charisma and utterly deranged characterisation of Harmsway. The only real change being his scheme and name.

As for the OP's post. Well.

Carver is indeed a brilliantly conceived and crafted villain in my eyes. The threat remains palpable and he himself remains quite the accurate representation of media mogul, making him a perfect villain in a Bond film. It's not just a war for ratings, it's the power to reach anyway and manipulate world events, as evidenced in his 'meeting' scene (the release of bugs in software remains so, so very true today in the age of smart phone apps, the blackmailing of the US president), how he plans to announce a killer alongside Paris' body without naming who it is in case Bond gets out of it and obviously the main crisis between the England and China - and his planned betrayal of General Chang too, meaning he'd write his way out of criminal implication and it's an act he can repeat over and over. If he can start a war between two countries, which he almost does, he has the power to stop it before it kills off his audience.

Carver is one of the series' finest villains. Certainly in my top 3 if not at the very top.

Oh okay, well I also think Carver may be my favorite villain because it comes down between him and Electra King for me I think. Electra King has a much more interesting backstory and character arc, where as Carver is all about the performance more and is juicy fun. So it's hard for me to pick there.

Both Carver and Elektra are great characters and villains. The headmaster won't chastise you for not deciding who you like more.