The inevitability of a black Bond

It's best to just accept that Bond is somehow ageless and the world changes around him, I find.

I don't see any inevitability. Whoever wants a black Bond can simply create their own character and stories, no? Just like the Americans have their own spy heroes, as do the Russians, French, etc.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

The problem with a black Bond--and I think it's a matter of when, not if--is that it will signify the complete conquest of Bond by the Left.

Going back to the beginning of this thread....and I liked this comment by Khan. It really sums up what the entire reason for having a black Bond, a gay Bond, a female Bond is all about.

For the first time in my entire life, I'm thinking of not going to see a Bond movie at the theater. I was too young to drive myself to see OP, so it's not my fault that I was a week or two behind in seeing it. Since then:

AVTAK: opening day
TLD: opening day
LTK: opening day
GE: opening day
TND: opening day
TWINE: a week late because I was in Cancun when the film premiered
DAD: opening day
CR: opening day
QOS: opening day
SF: ????

I'm so put out by reading Harris' comments regarding Idris Elba that I'm 50/50 on whether to go see SKYFALL or not, whereas just a week ago I was 100% certain to go see it. The fact that EON has not shot this down as rumor and categorically dismissed it out of hand as garbage...that they are even willing to entertain the idea.....troubles me. Before Harris' comment I assumed the rumor was just wishful, lefty fan-wankery. Now I see that it's more serious than a trifling rumor. If not Elba it could be some other black actor.

Once they "go black" I'll never go back. It will be the total abandonment of the Bond fan if any actor other than a 100% pure white male of British/Scottish/Irish/Welsh heritage is 007. I will have no loyalty left to the series once it happens.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I'm so put out by reading Harris' comments regarding Idris Elba that I'm 50/50 on whether to go see SKYFALL or not, whereas just a week ago I was 100% certain to go see it. The fact that EON has not shot this down as rumor and categorically dismissed it out of hand as garbage...that they are even willing to entertain the idea.....troubles me. Before Harris' comment I assumed the rumor was just wishful, lefty fan-wankery. Now I see that it's more serious than a trifling rumor. If not Elba it could be some other black actor.

Once they "go black" I'll never go back. It will be the total abandonment of the Bond fan if any actor other than a 100% pure white male of British/Scottish/Irish/Welsh heritage is 007. I will have no loyalty left to the series once it happens.

Didn't Pierce Brosnan once suggest that Colin Salmon, who played Robinson, could be a future James Bond? Brozza carried far more weight at the time than Naomie Harris ever could...and it was just waffle for the press. Salmon did play Bond for test-screenings though...

I'm considering the Idris Elba talk as waffle too.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

For the first time in my entire life, I'm thinking of not going to see a Bond movie at the theater. I was too young to drive myself to see OP, so it's not my fault that I was a week or two behind in seeing it. Since then:

AVTAK: opening day
TLD: opening day
LTK: opening day
GE: opening day
TND: opening day
TWINE: a week late because I was in Cancun when the film premiered
DAD: opening day
CR: opening day
QOS: opening day
SF: ????

Once they "go black" I'll never go back.

Bless. You realise it hasn't happened yet? You're quite safe to see SF. Daniel Craig is white.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I'm so put out by reading Harris' comments regarding Idris Elba that I'm 50/50 on whether to go see SKYFALL or not, whereas just a week ago I was 100% certain to go see it. The fact that EON has not shot this down as rumor and categorically dismissed it out of hand as garbage...that they are even willing to entertain the idea.....troubles me. Before Harris' comment I assumed the rumor was just wishful, lefty fan-wankery. Now I see that it's more serious than a trifling rumor. If not Elba it could be some other black actor.

....that they are even willing to entertain the idea"

But it's just Babs and others being pc. It makes them feel/appear progressive, just talking about it. But its never going to happen, it would sink the franchise. It makes no sense.

I'm not going to see SF opening day either. I don't get jacked for the Craig films. We get a way better price on Tuesdays. I can wait a few days and save cash.

tiffanywint wrote:

But it's just Babs and others being pc. It makes them feel/appear progressive, just talking about it. But its never going to happen, it would sink the franchise. It makes no sense.

I'm not going to see SF opening day either. I don't get jacked for the Craig films. We get a way better price on Tuesdays. I can wait a few days and save cash.

Other things I never thought I'd see:

#1 a black, gun-toting Moneypenny (allegedly)
#2 a gun-toting M (allegedly)
#3 a movie where M gets more screen time than the Bond Girls
#4 James Bond in a dress, wig, make-up and high heels lamenting the sexism that modern day women face

It's the 'boiling-frog' theory: EON has been conditioning us the past few years...softening us up so that when a black actor is revealed as Bond, we will all say it was "inevitable" and will praise the "forward" and progressive thinking that went into the casting.

I'm not suggesting I may wait a few days to see SKYFALL. I'm saying I may not go and see it at all; perhaps wait for it to hit Redbox, or simply find a way to view it illegally from home and/or download it off the web just to hurt EON. QUANTURD OF SOLACE is the one Bond film I do not own; not on regular dvd, not on blu-ray. It would not be much of a stretch to just not bother with SKYFALL either.

Talk about butt-hurt.

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I'm so put out by reading Harris' comments regarding Idris Elba that I'm 50/50 on whether to go see SKYFALL or not, whereas just a week ago I was 100% certain to go see it. The fact that EON has not shot this down as rumor and categorically dismissed it out of hand as garbage...that they are even willing to entertain the idea.....troubles me. Before Harris' comment I assumed the rumor was just wishful, lefty fan-wankery. Now I see that it's more serious than a trifling rumor. If not Elba it could be some other black actor.

Once they "go black" I'll never go back. It will be the total abandonment of the Bond fan if any actor other than a 100% pure white male of British/Scottish/Irish/Welsh heritage is 007. I will have no loyalty left to the series once it happens.

Didn't Pierce Brosnan once suggest that Colin Salmon, who played Robinson, could be a future James Bond? Brozza carried far more weight at the time than Naomie Harris ever could...and it was just waffle for the press. Salmon did play Bond for test-screenings though...

I'm considering the Idris Elba talk as waffle too.

Yeah, this. Your head is as level as your ass is fantastic, Aural.

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

Didn't Pierce Brosnan once suggest that Colin Salmon, who played Robinson, could be a future James Bond? Brozza carried far more weight at the time than Naomie Harris ever could...and it was just waffle for the press.

I agree.

What I suspect has happened here is that a journalist has seen a black actor cast in this particular role and seen it as an opening. They have then asked Harris a very particular question about the potential for a black actor in the role of James Bond - so particular that the answer is a foregone conclusion; Harris simply needed to say it in order for the journalist to be able to print it, and hey presto, story!

Whether or not Harris actually believes Elba could be cast as Bond at some point in the future is beside the point. The journalist probably wanted her to say it, and structured their questions accordingly.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

Didn't Pierce Brosnan once suggest that Colin Salmon, who played Robinson, could be a future James Bond? Brozza carried far more weight at the time than Naomie Harris ever could...and it was just waffle for the press.

I agree.

What I suspect has happened here is that a journalist has seen a black actor cast in this particular role and seen it as an opening. They have then asked Harris a very particular question about the potential for a black actor in the role of James Bond - so particular that the answer is a foregone conclusion; Harris simply needed to say it in order for the journalist to be able to print it, and hey presto, story!

Whether or not Harris actually believes Elba could be cast as Bond at some point in the future is beside the point. The journalist probably wanted her to say it, and structured their questions accordingly.

Except she was quoted as saying that Elba confirmed to her he'd had informal talks with Barbara. That's what makes the story go from unfounded-rumor/fan-wishful-thinking to something a bit more worrisome. Not that I think Elba will get the role. He'll be too old for it by the time Craig steps away in 2016 or 2017, unless EON is willing to accept a mid-40's actor again in the role. But the groundwork IS being laid for a black Bond.

Santa wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

For the first time in my entire life, I'm thinking of not going to see a Bond movie at the theater. I was too young to drive myself to see OP, so it's not my fault that I was a week or two behind in seeing it. Since then:

AVTAK: opening day
TLD: opening day
LTK: opening day
GE: opening day
TND: opening day
TWINE: a week late because I was in Cancun when the film premiered
DAD: opening day
CR: opening day
QOS: opening day
SF: ????

Once they "go black" I'll never go back.

Bless. You realise it hasn't happened yet? You're quite safe to see SF. Daniel Craig is white.

But for some few of us, his appearance is so far afield from what Bond is supposed to look like that for all intents & purposes, he might as well be black or a woman. I'd actually have less trouble accepting an out of left field choice like Elba, mainly because Gene Siskel kept voicing DenzelForBond long ago (not that I wanted that either) and the idea was at least out there, and also because I find him to be an excellent actor.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Except she was quoted as saying that Elba confirmed to her he'd had informal talks with Barbara. That's what makes the story go from unfounded-rumor/fan-wishful-thinking to something a bit more worrisome. Not that I think Elba will get the role. He'll be too old for it by the time Craig steps away in 2016 or 2017, unless EON is willing to accept a mid-40's actor again in the role. But the groundwork IS being laid for a black Bond.

Where is it written that because he had talks with EON, EON will inevitably cast a black actor in the role? Elba is a pretty good actor. If I were calling the shots at EON, I'd certainly be willing to consider him for the role of Bond based on his talent. The fact that he happens to be black is beside the point. With SKYFALL, they have proven they can attract exceptional talent to the franchise, and I hope that is a trend that will continue in the future. Elba is certainly someone I would love to see in a Bond film - I think he'd be particularly good as a reimagined Mr. Big/Kananga if ever EON wanted to go down that path.

Just because Elba is supposedly being considered for the role, it doesn't mean that EON are considering him simply because he is black. You're a lot smarter than to fall for that sensationalist xenophobic crap, Gravy.

Quote :

Except she was quoted as saying that Elba confirmed to her he'd had informal talks with Barbara.

The thing with the industry is that provided that you've spent time with that person, you can twist a story around it to make it seem more credible. For example, for a film I'm producing, when I'm emailing/calling agents, even if I hadn't received a reply, I am still saying that I've been in contact with an agent. I have, because I've sent an email or called, but it doesn't necessarily mean that their talent is on board my film. In this circumstance, the talk with the producers could have been a joke that he was making, or he could have suggested it, and the producers rejected the offer. But they still spoke about it, and that adds a grain of substantiation to the story.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

Elba is a pretty good actor. If I were calling the shots at EON, I'd certainly be willing to consider him for the role of Bond based on his talent.

His talent is not in question.

Quote :

The fact that he happens to be black is beside the point.

Oh, well, in that case Mr.Elba won't have any problem stepping aside and letting someone else....like, say, Michael Fassbender, play the part of Nelson Mandela in that film project that he's currently working on.

To say that his being black is "beside the point" is widiculous. It's the whole point. Elba isn't being considered for a generic, vague role that could be played by anybody. He's being "considered" for a very specific part...a very iconic character that Mr.Elba in no way, shape, or form resembles. People who want to deny that skin color matters are also denying the culture, the life experiences, and the perspective of the people they think they're allegedly helping with this attitude.

Quote :

Just because Elba is supposedly being considered for the role, it doesn't mean that EON are considering him simply because he is black. You're a lot smarter than to fall for that sensationalist xenophobic crap, Gravy.

I thought "diversity" was about accepting people's differences and being fine with it, not about forcing a series or a person to change.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Except she was quoted as saying that Elba confirmed to her he'd had informal talks with Barbara. That's what makes the story go from unfounded-rumor/fan-wishful-thinking to something a bit more worrisome. Not that I think Elba will get the role. He'll be too old for it by the time Craig steps away in 2016 or 2017, unless EON is willing to accept a mid-40's actor again in the role. But the groundwork IS being laid for a black Bond.

I think its pretty clear what's going on here. Idris Elba does want to play Bond. He wants the role. He knows it's a long shot, because, well, his profile fits the role of Mr. Big more than it does Fleming's English spy. Still he's an actor, he wants a shot.

Babs is simply being pc which comes naturally to her. The pc response is to of course entertain the idea. So of course she talks to him and makes polite noises.

Harris on the other hand, I wouldn't even acuse of being pc. She's just an actress being put on the spot. So she seeks the safest answer. I would expect no less. Her response doesn't mean anything.

Bottom line, IMO, nothing will come of this, because saner heads, ie. those that count the cash, will not put the franchise at such risk. Elba will just have to find himself a Bond-like vehicle. It's worked for Craig. Craig has achieved huge success with his interpretation of a Bond-like character.

I'm just thankful Bond makes so much damn money for Sony, MGM etc, that the bean-counters won't likely allow anything too radical to happen to the franchise. Too much cash to protect.

tiffanywint wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Except she was quoted as saying that Elba confirmed to her he'd had informal talks with Barbara. That's what makes the story go from unfounded-rumor/fan-wishful-thinking to something a bit more worrisome. Not that I think Elba will get the role. He'll be too old for it by the time Craig steps away in 2016 or 2017, unless EON is willing to accept a mid-40's actor again in the role. But the groundwork IS being laid for a black Bond.

I think its pretty clear what's going on here. Idris Elba does want to play Bond. He wants the role. He knows it's a long shot, because, well, his profile fits the role of Mr. Big more than it does Fleming's English spy. Still he's an actor, he wants a shot.

Babs is simply being pc which comes naturally to her. The pc response is to of course entertain the idea. So of course she talks to him and makes polite noises.

Harris on the other hand, I wouldn't even acuse of being pc. She's just an actress being put on the spot. So she seeks the safest answer. I would expect no less. Her response doesn't mean anything.

Bottom line, IMO, nothing will come of this, because saner heads, ie. those that count the cash, will not put the franchise at such risk. Elba will just have to find himself a Bond-like vehicle. It's worked for Craig. Craig has achieved huge success with his interpretation of a Bond-like character.

I'm just thankful Bond makes so much damn money for Sony, MGM etc, that the bean-counters won't likely allow anything too radical to happen to the franchise. Too much cash to protect.

I couldn't have said it better. All this is a storm in a tea cup. Plus, Fleming's influence on the films is back in style.

tiffanywint wrote:

I think its pretty clear what's going on here...Babs is simply being pc which comes naturally to her. The pc response is to of course entertain the idea. So of course she talks to him and makes polite noises.

Bottom line, IMO, nothing will come of this, because saner heads, ie. those that count the cash, will not put the franchise at such risk. Elba will just have to find himself a Bond-like vehicle. It's worked for Craig. Craig has achieved huge success with his interpretation of a Bond-like character.

I'm just thankful Bond makes so much damn money for Sony, MGM etc, that the bean-counters won't likely allow anything too radical to happen to the franchise. Too much cash to protect.

I think you're right. Thank you for your salient points and calm words. You've talked me off the ledge and am planning on going to see SKYFALL again.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I think you're right. Thank you for your salient points and calm words. You've talked me off the ledge and am planning on going to see SKYFALL again.

Be careful though, Skyfall might put you back on the ledge, where you might find me as well, after two-hours-plus of Bond and Mommy.

tiffanywint wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I think you're right. Thank you for your salient points and calm words. You've talked me off the ledge and am planning on going to see SKYFALL again.

Be careful though, Skyfall might put you back on the ledge, where you might find me as well, after two-hours-plus of Bond and Mommy.

don't worry aka timmer, if you're out on the ledge, I'm sure Craig Bond will save you by finding a nice big dumpster to push out below, so you'll have something soft to land on when you jump (probably M this time?)

Seve wrote:

don't worry aka timmer, if you're out on the ledge, I'm sure Craig Bond will save you by finding a nice big dumpster to push out below, so you'll have something soft to land on when you jump (probably M this time?)

Is there room for Grav too?! That could be a crowded dumpster.

tiffanywint wrote:

Seve wrote:

don't worry aka timmer, if you're out on the ledge, I'm sure Craig Bond will save you by finding a nice big dumpster to push out below, so you'll have something soft to land on when you jump (probably M this time?)

Is there room for Grav too?! That could be a crowded dumpster.

If it's the same dumpster Bond threw Mathis in, we're gonna need a bigger dumpster.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

tiffanywint wrote:

Seve wrote:

don't worry aka timmer, if you're out on the ledge, I'm sure Craig Bond will save you by finding a nice big dumpster to push out below, so you'll have something soft to land on when you jump (probably M this time?)

Is there room for Grav too?! That could be a crowded dumpster.

If it's the same dumpster Bond threw Mathis in, we're gonna need a bigger dumpster.

Actually Daniel san will only use the dumpster after you go splat, it's his way.....

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Once they "go black" I'll never go back.

That really made me laugh.

And for what its worth GS, if EON ever dare cast a black Bond, I will most certainly be joining you in turning my back on the franchise. Hopefully it will never happen.

jet set willy wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Once they "go black" I'll never go back.

That really made me laugh.

And for what its worth GS, if EON ever dare cast a black Bond, I will most certainly be joining you in turning my back on the franchise. Hopefully it will never happen.

Good. Our movement to keep Bond from being cast with a black man has now doubled in size. And for the record, I don't give a rat's ass if anyone thinks it is racist to not want a black Bond. I'm so far past that argument I could care less what people think or say about me. Bond is white. He is British (or from the Commonwealth). He is heterosexual. He is, well...a man. And he better damn well stay that way. And I don't have a problem with just a black actor being cast as Bond; I have a problem with all other races and ethnicities being cast as Bond. I'm an equal opportunity bigot.

I have no problem with a spin-off universe of individual 00-agent films that have gay 00-agents, black 00-agents, Eurasian 00-agents, female 00-agents. I think it would be a smart move on EON's part to widen the demographics and the offerings, and I would watch them. But let me be clear: if Bond is anything less than straight, white, male and British, I'm out of here. I've already been pushed to my limit with Bond and his wearing a dress, pimping for womyn's rights issues, for having Mommy issues with M.....anymore pushing from Bab's radical feminist agenda and I'm going to push back.