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 The Star Trek Thread, 3.0

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Makeshift Python
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PostSubject: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:53 pm

Previous threads:
1.0
Phase II


Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
Star Trek died when DS9 ended.

1999.

The year DS9 ended and the Star Wars prequels began.



Last edited by Makeshift Python on Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:31 am



Resistance is futile ... but who's resisting THAT? :*e*:
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:59 am

I can't find a cartoon attractive. laugh I supposed Rog would say, "Such lovely lines."

Makeshift Python wrote:
Maquis? Rick won't go for it.

Tom Paris' womanizing? Jeri won't go for it.

Equinox crew? Rick won't go for it.

Suder? Jeri won't go for it.

Borg Kids? Rick approves.


I'll be amazed if you can make it through that episode with Neelix telling spooky stories to the Borg kids. I just couldn't finish it. It featured three things I hated: Neelix, Borg Kids, and bullshit stories that don't matter. Even nuTrek is more enjoyable.

So Jeri Taylor vetoed Paris' kirking? "Kirking" should be the official technical term for womanizing in the Star Trek universe, except for in the Mirrorverse, where it's "suluing".

Paris should have always been brazen. Maybe temper him a little over time, but I hate how they completely tied him down to B'Elanna. Shit, now he's falling asleep with a beer watching TV. Literally! I still think Tom/B'Elanna is a stupid idea. It should be Chakotay/B'Elanna. Beltran and Dawson actually have a great chemistry. I don't see any between her and McNeill.

But I guess Jeri thought Paris sleeping around would be sexist. Clearly a Borg Babe in a tight catsuit to show off her fantastic breasts is much more sensible.

TOS is so 60's, but I love. VOY is so 90's, but in a bad way.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:58 am

Blunt Instrument wrote:


Resistance is futile ... but who's resisting THAT? :*e*:

aye,

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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:50 am

VOY: "Spirit Folk"

I was thinking that this episode had the kernal of a good idea, but then I realized, "I sorta saw this on TNG".

What completely F***S up this whole episode is that it makes just about everyone look like a complete idiot. So Janeway's sex toy is more important than Tom's and Harry's lives?* WTF? Ugh. The Fair Haven program itself is stupid and boring. Why is this ship, that relies upon actual food stores instead of replicated food have a program running that is actually fucking up the ship.



The most damning thing is that this episode could have been written in such a way that wasn't shit. The character of Michael is actually written pretty well IMHO.

*Okay, more than Harry's life I can see.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:25 am

Watching "Ashes to Ashes".

PB&J? I hate when this show tries to be cute.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:45 am

VOY: "Ashes to Ashes"

Who is this person? Where did she come from? Why should I care? How was Harry always in love with her and it's never been mentioned, and how is this possibe when he had a fiance back on Earth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhjb4P_jnKk#t=27s
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:08 am

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/6-reasons-star-trek-voyager-worked.html

Good article. I dunno about Janeway being FemKirk instead of a FemPicard. I like the idea of her being a scientist, I just wish she were written consistently.

I hate FAMILY GUY, so I haven't seen enough to get a real take on Meg Griffin, but B'Ellana's Klingon qualities are pretty lame.

The part that made laugh was the idea of Chakoay using a cargo bay to open a casino.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:21 am

she always struck me as being a bit more Kirkesque in some regards than Picard. Taking the fight to the enemy. Still, it's Voyager. Like arguing the finer points of Galactica '80.

Let's break it up a bit for the sheer hell of it.



"Aye and if my nan had wheels she'd be a wagon."
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:25 am

"Ashes to Ashes" was such a lie of a show.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:11 am

VOY: "Child's Play"

I thought is was fair. Didn't really piss me off. Icheb is dull as hell, though. Nice to see Mr. Lampkin.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:30 am

The White Tuxedo wrote:
I can't find a cartoon attractive. laugh I supposed Rog would say, "Such lovely lines."

Makeshift Python wrote:
Maquis? Rick won't go for it.

Tom Paris' womanizing? Jeri won't go for it.

Equinox crew? Rick won't go for it.

Suder? Jeri won't go for it.

Borg Kids? Rick approves.


I'll be amazed if you can make it through that episode with Neelix telling spooky stories to the Borg kids. I just couldn't finish it. It featured three things I hated: Neelix, Borg Kids, and bullshit stories that don't matter. Even nuTrek is more enjoyable.

So Jeri Taylor vetoed Paris' kirking? "Kirking" should be the official technical term for womanizing in the Star Trek universe, except for in the Mirrorverse, where it's "suluing".

Paris should have always been brazen. Maybe temper him a little over time, but I hate how they completely tied him down to B'Elanna. Shit, now he's falling asleep with a beer watching TV. Literally! I still think Tom/B'Elanna is a stupid idea. It should be Chakotay/B'Elanna. Beltran and Dawson actually have a great chemistry. I don't see any between her and McNeill.

But I guess Jeri thought Paris sleeping around would be sexist. Clearly a Borg Babe in a tight catsuit to show off her fantastic breasts is much more sensible.

TOS is so 60's, but I love. VOY is so 90's, but in a bad way.

Yeah, after "Ex Post Facto" that has Paris sleeping with a man's wife, Taylor wanted to get rid of Tom's kirkin' for good, believing that trait made him evil or something. Despite the fact that Roddenberry wanted to portray casual sex as something no longer considered taboo and totally accepted in society in the 23rd century. Basically, Taylor did not belong in Trek. Worse when Berman is around, who is probably the most asexual of all the creative Trek people.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:35 am

Maybe she hates men?
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:59 pm

I think she just has prosaic tastes. Look at the shows she wrote for, a lot of men's action and drama stuff, but from what I recall, she didn't write the edgy ones. I'm sure she didn't write the MAGNUM back-to-nam 2parter where Tom blows away a baddie in cold-blood at the end.

I only spent 40min or so in her company, and she was only interested in the plainest safest stuff I pitched, which I'm sure I've gone into here a couple times previously. All the edgy stuff and all the SF stuff she did not want (and she dismissed my single hard SF story with 'we don't do fantasy.')

When I acquainted her with the spec that got me in to pitch there, she was shaking her head for the full minute, which is strange because it wasn't a long ways off from "IT CAN'T HAPPEN HERE" - a story Moore had in development at that time that morphed into THE DRUMHEAD with Taylor taking writing credit.

She's also the one who de-balled the TNG folks' bigscreen intro, her consultancy basically saying you can't go from the Ent-B stuff right into another action scene, so we lost the whole 'Worf kicking Romulan ass after E-D roars in to rescue Amorgosa' and wound up with ... Worf walking the plank.

I just went back and looked at her credits; her first credits are for a series I liked, SALVAGE ONE, but the shows she did sound AWFUL, especially for a light comedy-adventure. See the descrip below:

The Salvage 1 team tries to round up a herd of wild horses before local ranchers can slaughter them.

Might as well call it DANCES WITH ANDY GRIFFIN'S JUNKYARD SPACEVEHICLE
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:46 pm

Pity you didn't get to pitch to Moore.

VOY: "Good Shepherd"

I was entertained, but I would have loved to have seen Q pop up and replace Janeway with Sisko. He'd whip those losers into shape.

And I enjoyed this episode more when it was called "Lower Decks". I did like the teaser, with the viewports.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:53 pm

Taylor was an affirmative action hire, no doubt about it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:28 pm

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
Taylor was an affirmative action hire, no doubt about it.

Indeed, I was watching the TNG special that aired before the finale talking about behind the scenes stuff. The only creative people that were acknowledged were Gene Roddenberry, Rick Berman and then there's a whole section all about Jeri Taylor and how it was a big deal to have her because she was a woman and a one of the big writers for Trek, as if everyone forgot that 30 years earlier there was D.C. Fontana writing some of the most classic episodes of Trek ever. The most humorous bit was how Taylor was praised for making strong female characters.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:42 am

The White Tuxedo wrote:
Pity you didn't get to pitch to Moore.

Moore was in the room and very supportive, to be sure. I was supposed to pitch to Pillar at 4pm, but he got called out to deal with a situation upstairs, so after a considerable delay I got moved over to Taylor's office, and I think she was already getting ready to leave for the day at that point (getting close to 5pm.)

I can't say they weren't in a buying mood at the time; the guy who pitched what wound up being SILICON AVATAR was in there about a week earlier, going by an account of his I read. And yeah, i think almost all of my treatments and premises were better than that, even now.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:49 am

I dunno if Taylor made strong female characters, but I will say that after she came onboard Troi and Crusher at least BECAME characters, became more than essentially window dressing.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:28 am

trevanian wrote:
The White Tuxedo wrote:
Pity you didn't get to pitch to Moore.

Moore was in the room and very supportive, to be sure. I was supposed to pitch to Pillar at 4pm, but he got called out to deal with a situation upstairs, so after a considerable delay I got moved over to Taylor's office, and I think she was already getting ready to leave for the day at that point (getting close to 5pm.)

I can't say they weren't in a buying mood at the time; the guy who pitched what wound up being SILICON AVATAR was in there about a week earlier, going by an account of his I read. And yeah, i think almost all of my treatments and premises were better than that, even now.

Ah, I recall you saying someone left the room. That's tough breaks.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:29 am

VOY: "Live Fast and Prosper"

I felt bad for the con artists. I liked more than most of the people on Voyager. Not that I was crazy about the con artists, I'm just so indifferent towards the main crew. Except Neelix. I fucking hate Neelix.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:25 am

Tux keeps up the charade that he's still in the Delta Quadrant...

VOY: "Muse"

The VOYAGER writers write about writing, starring Lt. Debbie Downer. The results bored me out of my skull.
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:33 am

"Muse" was Joe Menosky's final episode, it's sort've his commentary on writing for Voyager.

"Find the truth of your story and you won't need all those tricks. I don't know how things are done across the Eastern Sea, but here poets have become lazy; they rely on manipulation to move their audience. It wasn't always that way."
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:56 am

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:
"Muse" was Joe Menosky's final episode, it's sort've his commentary on writing for Voyager.

"Find the truth of your story and you won't need all those tricks. I don't know how things are done across the Eastern Sea, but here poets have become lazy; they rely on manipulation to move their audience. It wasn't always that way."

I picked that one up. :) It actually made me interested for about a minute.

VOY: "Fury"

Even if a character is gone from a series, the Killer B's can still completely fuck up that character.

Too much shit for me to sort through. Sykes will do a better job. He can remain cold and objective. I just get pissed off. He's Spock, I'm McCoy.

I wait for this show to be over. I want to get back home...

EDIT ADDON: Wait, does Kes still have superpowers? Could she thank them by sending them the rest of the way home?
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PostSubject: Re: The Star Trek Thread, 3.0   Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:27 pm

Fury is about as pure a piece of character assasination as I've ever seen. I can't believe the actors agreed to perform in it.

I look forward to ripping it to pieces.
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