Skyfall - what I liked and what I didn't (spoilers)

Loomis wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Finney is one of the highlights of the film for me, despite how small his role is. Whenever he's on screen he adds a lot of charm, wit, and quiet dignity. Plus he gets some of the best lines.

"I was ready before you were born."

"Where did you say you worked for again?"

"Try and stop me you jumped up little sh*t."

Watch SATURDAY NIGHT AND SUNDAY MORNING and you'll see how similar a young Albert Finney was to Daniel Craig. Perfect casting.

Sorry, I find the Kincaid character completely redundant and annoying. To my mind, the character could only have worked with Connery playing him, in which case his quips would have made sense and the badassery would have come through.

Albert Finney isn't badass? What bollocks.

That said, he's always been one of my favourite actors (also met him as a young boy at a filming location), so I guess I'm heavily biased.

Bloody thing just WORKS, and gloriously so ... Craig's more 'grounded' approach to the role and parts of the franchise's more flamboyant and outrageous past are brought together, and ... hey, whaddya know? They get on like a (Scottish ancestral) house on fire. :)

Largo's Shark wrote:

Watch SATURDAY NIGHT AND SUNDAY MORNING and you'll see how similar a young Albert Finney was to Daniel Craig. Perfect casting.

Oh, I've nothing against Finney, merely the Kincaid ciphe---- sorry, character. If you're gonna have this role in the film at all get Sir Sean to play him. I mean, sod me but does Finney even attempt a Scottish accent?*

Is SATURDAY NIGHT a good film, then? Should I rent it? And are any other Finneys worth a squirt?

*Or failing that SKYFALL should have had Bond take M to his ancestral home in Buckinghamshire where he's welcomed by an old friend of his father, a dapper, charming and slightly effeminate old English gentleman played by Roger Moore.

Loomis wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Watch SATURDAY NIGHT AND SUNDAY MORNING and you'll see how similar a young Albert Finney was to Daniel Craig. Perfect casting.

Oh, I've nothing against Finney, merely the Kincaid ciphe---- sorry, character. If you're gonna have this role in the film at all get Sir Sean to play him. I mean, sod me but does Finney even attempt a Scottish accent?*

He does (sounded Edinburgh to me), and obviously Sean's retired and wants nothing to do with EON. For what's worth, I don't think an 82 year old Connery could pull off the sly humour as well as Finney. Maybe 20 years ago, but not now.

Loomis wrote:

Is SATURDAY NIGHT a good film, then? Should I rent it? And are any other Finneys worth a squirt?

It is. Classic Karel Reisz kitchen sink drama. I also recommend THE ENTERTAINER, NIGHT MUST FALL (also by Reisz), THE DUELLISTS, THE DRESSER, UNDER THE VOLCANO, TWO FOR THE ROAD, MILLER'S CROSSING, AMAZING GRACE, THE GATHERING STORM, and MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS. Mind you EXPRESS is a load of camp fluff, but it's quite entertaining.

Largo's Shark wrote:

It is. Classic Karel Reisz kitchen sink drama. I also recommend THE ENTERTAINER, NIGHT MUST FALL (also by Reisz), THE DUELLISTS, THE DRESSER, UNDER THE VOLCANO, TWO FOR THE ROAD, MILLER'S CROSSING, AMAZING GRACE, THE GATHERING STORM, and MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS. Mind you EXPRESS is a load of camp fluff, but it's quite entertaining.

Thanks. I've seen none of those films. I'll start off with SATURDAY NIGHT since I have a fondness for kitchen sink.

Loomis wrote:

*Or failing that SKYFALL should have had Bond take M to his ancestral home in Buckinghamshire where he's welcomed by an old friend of his father, a dapper, charming and slightly effeminate old English gentleman played by Roger Moore.

Odd as that sounds, it could have worked. My wife always refers to Moore as Bond's gay uncle anyway, but the idea of somebody who has charm and is the antithesis of Craig in most ways, but can still handle a firearm, could have been some kind of okay.

Plus, based on FFOLKES (or NORTH SEA HIJACK or ESTHER RUTH & JENNIFER, depending on where you live), Moore can actually play the crusty-but-benign guy.


Oh, a slight warning about ORIENT EXPRESS. It is when cinematographer Unsworth is in his most gauzy LUCKY LADY phase. Probably due here to the age of many of the film's actresses, but even so, this movie really looks SOFT. Luminous, but soft. I love Unsworth for 2001 and other efforts, but in retrospect, I'm very glad he wound up backing out of STAR WARS.

trevanian wrote:

Oh, a slight warning about ORIENT EXPRESS. It is when cinematographer Unsworth is in his most gauzy LUCKY LADY phase. Probably due here to the age of many of the film's actresses, but even so, this movie really looks SOFT. Luminous, but soft.

Vaseline, stockings or bodily essence?

I imagine he took at least a few secrets with him to his grave.

Seriously, he used fog filters on just about everything after 2001. I remember reading something from a guy on his crew for A BRIDGE TOO FAR where they shot a parachute drop in foggy conditions, and that was the ONLY time this guy ever saw Unsworth shoot without fog filtration.

I think the diffusion used by Taylor for the desert planet stuff in STAR WARS, where you have a net BEHIND the lens, was an inspired choice. One of the longtime ILM guys told me 20 years after working on it that the thing he most took away from seeing SW was the otherworldliness achieved with that camera trick, which he found nearly subliminal rather than showy, which was part of the magic.

Just to beat this subject to death, John Alcott, the guy who shot everything on 2001 that Unsworth didn't (even ship models, as well as Dawn of Man and the hotel room at the end), used some serious stocking on the star child shot, and the rumor at MGM was that these were Marlene Dietrich stockings from the 30s. Blue Angel meets 2001

Another lover of diffusion was Vilmos Zsigmond - OBSESSION being a classic example, though it went a bit overkill there. Also think Claude Renoir's washed out and gauzy work on SPY dates it quite badly. Likewise with Alan Hume and FOR YOUR EYES ONLY.

I'm not big on Giuseppe Rotunno use of a net curtain of Zinnemann's FIVE DAYS ONE SUMMER either. Gives the whole film a stale, oppressive feel, like an old lady's perfume, though that might have been the point.

In a lot of these cases, I ask myself "what were these guys thinking?"

Quote :

Macau is rich in extraordinary architecture that might have been highlighted, from old churches to new casinos, but instead we just get Fu Manchu kitsch

Definitely occurred to me when they revealed the casino and it is definitely a disappointment in my book (yes, I know it was a backlot set-up, but it's a waste of a potential location). Perhaps I didn't look carefully enough but it seemed like Severine was the only one smoking too, which is patently ridiculous.

Loomis wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Finney is one of the highlights of the film for me, despite how small his role is. Whenever he's on screen he adds a lot of charm, wit, and quiet dignity. Plus he gets some of the best lines.

"I was ready before you were born."

"Where did you say you worked for again?"

"Try and stop me you jumped up little sh*t."

Watch SATURDAY NIGHT AND SUNDAY MORNING and you'll see how similar a young Albert Finney was to Daniel Craig. Perfect casting.

Sorry, I find the Kincaid character completely redundant and annoying. To my mind, the character could only have worked with Connery playing him, in which case his quips would have made sense and the badassery would have come through.

I liked Kincaid. He definitely reminded me of a character that Fleming could have wrote. Obviously Connery playing this role would have meant more, but he is too old now, and doubt he'd want any part of the film since his lengthy, petty, bitter disputes with EON for all these years.

I loved Finney as Scrooge, definitely my favourite Chrsitmas movie. I met Finney once in a bar in London, and told him he was the best Scrooge ever, to which he replied `I was only a child at the time!!' with a grin, supping a pint. The guy is a legend, and so glad he was cast in Skyfall. :cheers:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Another lover of diffusion was Vilmos Zsigmond - OBSESSION being a classic example, though it went a bit overkill there.

Until I saw the Blu-Ray, I thought that too.

jet set willy wrote:

I liked Kincaid. He definitely reminded me of a character that Fleming could have wrote.

I've been thinking that SKYFALL may well be the most Flemingian Bond film in many, many, many years. Which doesn't excuse its flaws but is certainly a point in its favour. I think Fleming might have written vast chunks of the SKYFALL screenplay.

Loomis wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

I liked Kincaid. He definitely reminded me of a character that Fleming could have wrote.

I've been thinking that SKYFALL may well be the most Flemingian Bond film in many, many, many years. Which doesn't excuse its flaws but is certainly a point in its favour. I think Fleming might have written vast chunks of the SKYFALL screenplay.

It unfolds very much like a Fleming novel even though it isn't based on one, the same way LTK did many years before it. CR obviously had it's Fleming moments too (mainly the second half of the movie).

I'm slightly confused by your last comment. Did you mean Skyfall felt like Fleming could have written it? They way you wrote that, it sounds you are stating Fleming may have actually written the script.

jet set willy wrote:

I'm slightly confused by your last comment. Did you mean Skyfall felt like Fleming could have written it? They way you wrote that, it sounds you are stating Fleming may have actually written the script.

That's exactly what I mean. I can picture Fleming creating a lot of the scenes and situations in this film. I can also picture him creating some of the characters (Silva, Mallory). And there's also a sense of glorious dementedness to SKYFALL that's very Flemingian.

I thought it was rather Flemish. Did Oppers write it?

Loomis wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

I'm slightly confused by your last comment. Did you mean Skyfall felt like Fleming could have written it? They way you wrote that, it sounds you are stating Fleming may have actually written the script.

That's exactly what I mean. I can picture Fleming creating a lot of the scenes and situations in this film. I can also picture him creating some of the characters (Silva, Mallory). And there's also a sense of glorious dementedness to SKYFALL that's very Flemingian.

Sounds like you are warming to Skyfall, Loomis?

My biggest issue with SKYFALL, I suppose, is that I expected much more from Sam Mendes. Rightly or wrongly (and probably wrongly), I hold a Mendes Bond film to much higher standards and much greater and harsher scrutiny than a Roger Spottiswoode or Lee Tamahori Bond film. AMERICAN BEAUTY only seems like yesterday for me. My disappointment comes mostly from skyscrapingly high expectations that were probably never justified in the first place, although to be fair all the rave reviews of SKYFALL do make it out to be something utterly stupendous.

Anyway, I'm planning to see SKYFALL again the week after next, and I actually find myself looking forward to it very much.

For me the difference is that I've never thought of Sam Mendes that highly as a director. I've disliked all of his previous films and thought he was terrible choice for Bond. i.e. Bond needed a bourgie Oxbridge theatre luvvie with a penchant for stuffy high-toned drama and artsy fartsy nihilism like he needed a hole in the head. I was pleasantly surprised.

The experience for me was a bit like with Joe Wright's HANNAH. All of a sudden the director of Merchant Ivory sh**e like ATONEMENT gives us a piece of popularist, crowd pleasing entertainment. A giant FUCK YOU to the Michael Hanekes, Paul Thomas Andersons and Stephen Daldrys of the world.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Another lover of diffusion was Vilmos Zsigmond - OBSESSION being a classic example, though it went a bit overkill there. Also think Claude Renoir's washed out and gauzy work on SPY dates it quite badly. Likewise with Alan Hume and FOR YOUR EYES ONLY.

I'm not big on Giuseppe Rotunno use of a net curtain of Zinnemann's FIVE DAYS ONE SUMMER either. Gives the whole film a stale, oppressive feel, like an old lady's perfume, though that might have been the point.

In a lot of these cases, I ask myself "what were these guys thinking?"

Lazlo Kovacs shot a picture called MARRIAGE OF A YOUNG STOCKBROKER and some critic said it looked like the whole thing was shot through a dirty windshield ... and based on the one TV airing I caught, I'd agree wholeheartedly. Kovacs' reply was that maybe the work reflected his attitude on the picture, which sounds inexcusable to me.

I forgot FIVE DAYS even existed ... which is odd, given I saw it in the theater. Have no memory of how it looked at all, just that it took about 45 min before Zinneman used a closeup. Film grammar ... wow, think Michael Bay could have even lasted 45 min watching it?

Skyfall's a good film (not great), definitely not the best of the series! Not even in the first 10 imo.I think the producers,are making a critical mistake the 3 last...films.They are taking into great consideration of the audience of 17-25 years of age, and much less % the traditional fans of older ages...But can a 50 year old franchise, survive whithout keeping up with its tradition? I think no...Unless Barbara and Michael change their route....If Cubby was still with us, we wouldn't have the absolute stupidity of the gunbarrel scene at the end of the film,the absolute lack of the JB theme (with the exemption of a few notes here an there), and it wouldn't take 3 films just to show and present the hero's past.....
The end of skyfall is very promissing. Bond seems to get in the old route, Ralph Fiennes is an excellent choice for M, and maybee in the next one we see a real Bond movie, unless they remember some sad Christmas Bond had in the age of 10 and decide to tell us about it......

Disagree there, Commander. I can't see teenagers finding much that appeals in Skyfall. Whereas QoS should've come with a game controller.

Erica Ambler wrote:

Disagree there, Commander. I can't see teenagers finding much that appeals in Skyfall. Whereas QoS should've come with a game controller.

You may disagree my dear, but this doesn't mean that the people who hold the franchise in their hands, are not looking at this direction.....Bond isn't Jason Bourne,and a Bond villain (especially when is played by a great actor like Javier Bardem) cannot be spent immitating Batman's nemesis, Jocker! This is happening because they think they can "steal" audience from other projects, audience of youth who's priority is to spend money in products coming out from the franchise, and not for the school of their children for example...

The combined age of the stars of Skyfall is about 400. If you check the credits, Skyfall even employed a zimmer frame consultant.

As the lovely Erica says, SKYFALL is an elderly Bond film. The finale focuses around two actors in their early focus, and two in their late 70s. The subtext revolves around the old vs. new dichotomy, in a way the series hasn't since AVTAK.

There's some superficial similarities to Bourne and Batman, but nothing big.