Problem Members

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Precisely. And I rather doubt HJackson would be so equable if a mod really did start jacking with his posts. If somebody did it to my posts I would raise all sorts of hell.

You're acting as if people were systematically doctoring his posts. As far as I can tell, a few mods independently touched up a post or two for comedy. If that happened to me I probably wouldn't notice. My first impulse, if I did notice, certainly wouldn't be to 'raise all sorts of hell' (meaning what, sending a few tear-soaked PMs to M about the mean ol' mods who take the piss once in a while?)

Largo's Shark wrote:

I'd rather j7 be granted permission to view this thread to see how much the odds are against him, than it to be made public or worse, deleted (if we did that, we'd be no better than Cb.n's Jim). Putting this out in the open will give James Page exactly what he wants. We'll look like a laughing stock, and the mod-post-editing thing might drive off potential members as much as j7wild's presence.

Well, I think the bus has already left the station where MI6 and CBn are concerned. They're going to hear about it if they haven't already. And if you give JWild access to the thread he could simply copy and paste what he wanted from it and send it to others to post at MI6 or CBn for him.,,,or even use dummy accounts and post it himself. I guess what I'm saying is that it's inevitable they're going to hear about it, but since I care more for the feelings of a cockroach than I care what CBn thinks of me, I'll somehow manage to sleep at night and find the will and strength to live on :roll: Besides, it's never the crime that gets people in trouble; it's the cover-up.

And the threat that J7Wild might "drive off potential members" I think is overstated, has always been overstated, and probably pales in comparison to people not wanting to have their posts modified by moderators to look even more stupid than they already are.

I just don't get the rationale for people wanting to hang their entire moderating status, or membership here, on whether J7 posts or is allowed to post. In the same way that I would not lose any sleep over stepping on an ant, I don't understand how otherwise decent people have led themselves mentally astray over someone they consider to be the intellectual equal to an ant, and have justified altering posts or continually picking on the guy after we banned him. If you want to look back on this banishment and attempt to see where it might have gone wrong and how M *might* have seen it, consider this:

#1 after we banned him, we kept the "JWild Dilemma" thread going, mercilessly kicking a guy when he was down.

#2 when we banned him, somebody wrote on his profile words to the effect of: 'Reason for banishment: being a fucking idiot'

#3 we offered up damaged goods to M as reasons for removing him. Our behavior wasn't above board, it wasn't beyond suspicion, we tampered with posts, and rather than have to sort through it all and figure out who truly said what to whom, maybe M just said "to hell with it" and gave JWild a clean slate.

If JWild's posts aren't worth responding to, how could they be worth altering or tampering? Aren't his posts ludicrous enough already? Is further embellishment really needed? If JWild is as crazy and stupid as some people have alleged, how were we supposed to know and see the difference between his real posts and the ones people were altering? Because I rarely read his posts to begin with, I would have had no way of knowing what the real JWild comments were and which ones were fake.

Quote :

The answer is containment. Keep it within closed doors, but let the poster in question view it.

You're smarter than that. You know there is no such thing as "containment". The easier thing would have been not to alter his posts. I mean, I feel like there's a burden being placed upon other people to try and keep this quiet and secret, as if that could ever happen. Screw James Page and screw CBn.

As for the rest of the posts I've read.....I simply don't understand them, even the ones that are in essence agreeing with me. Why do people say: "Let's just ban him. It's inevitable."? We DID ban him and M reinstated him. And I don't think he's done anything since M reinstated him (which was what, 4 weeks ago or less???) that would rise to the level of banning him all over again. So the real issue some people probably are having right now is with M's decision. Even though I didn't agree with M's decision to bring him back, I feel like people haven't respected M's decision either, because they've been continuously chomping at the bit to get him banned all over again, no matter how transparent the motivations or the ploy.

I *THINK* I have said everything I can say on this matter. If we lose some people over this it will be regrettable, but ultimately I care more about the process of running the boards the correct way. I cannot stress that enough. We have to apply the same moderating standards to the people we don't like as we would to the people we do like.

Touching up for comedy? Yes, it was a veritable panic. If people who are supposed to be impartial referees (please note the meanings of the word "moderate") use their authority to mock and belittle you in public, it is hardly amusing, let alone humorous.

Now look, J7 is hardly a sympathetic figure, and I have no use for him whatsoever. But J7 is not the point. Proper behavior by moderators is. And if you can't see how improper this behavior was...

HJackson wrote:

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Precisely. And I rather doubt HJackson would be so equable if a mod really did start jacking with his posts. If somebody did it to my posts I would raise all sorts of hell.

You're acting as if people were systematically doctoring his posts. As far as I can tell, a few mods independently touched up a post or two for comedy.

Only his posts about how Obama is going to send everyone to FEMA camps if he gets re-elected and his blatantly racist posts that would taint this forum's reputation and possibly cause it to be shut down if reported. Links to Stormfront and other racist sites were also removed from his posts, which is something that would happen on any decent web forum. But it seems like some of you are hellbent on believing that this "good man" wouldn't dare posting a link to a white supremacist website. He's also been PM'd and warned, appropriately, on different occasions.

We weren't modifying mind-blowing or life-changing posts. We were modifying his sludge and his trash, which is 90% of everything he posts on this site. This wasn't a conspiracy to make a genius seem like a 15-year-old kid. Trust me, he does that fine all on his own.

Fine, Brandon. It seems like the proper course of action to his unacceptable posts (which I never saw, BTW) would be to simply delete them and report them to M for possible further action. No need whatsoever to edit his posts.

Again, assuming J7 is guilty of every offense ascribed to him, he should have been banned in perpetuity. And he shouldn't be here now.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Fine, Brandon. It seems like the proper course of action to his unacceptable posts (which I never saw, BTW) would be to simply delete them and report them to M for possible further action. No need whatsoever to edit his posts.

You're absolutely right, which is why the mods who edited his posts really don't belong in their positions any longer.

It's basically just a matter of trust among the respected members on this site, which is why I no longer want moderator powers. I like you people and I like discussing topics with you all. I wouldn't want any of you carry on and think you're in the presence of the forum's very own Joe Stalin.

I think I've said all that I need to regarding this matter. At this point, M will take care of it. Hopefully we don't lose too many, or any, members in the long-run.

Quote :

And if you give JWild access to the thread he could simply copy and paste what he wanted from it and send it to others to post at MI6 or CBn for him.,,,or even use dummy accounts and post it himself.

He'd never do that. He's got no friends on either site, and I've never once seen him post under a dummy account.

Quote :

And the threat that J7Wild might "drive off potential members" I think is overstated, has always been overstated, and probably pales in comparison to people not wanting to have their posts modified by moderators to look even more stupid than they already are.

Which would only come into play if these threads went public. Once even guest accounts can see there's been a huge scandal here, I think they'd be less confident about signing up, to say the least. And believe it or not, a lot of do give a rat's arse about what MI6 think. To see a recent example of the rivalry between our sites just look at this thread.

https://bondandbeyond.forumotion.com/t1700p15-bond-and-beyond-is-now-on-facebook

You might have severed all ties with those boards, but it's not the case for all of us.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Again, assuming J7 is guilty of every offense ascribed to him, he should have been banned in perpetuity. And he shouldn't be here now.

I did ban him in perpetuity, ban in May, and I hoped it would stick. It was M, Dog Bond and an anonymous poster who wanted to give him a second chance, and invited him back without asking us. That's a far bigger betrayal of trust than Brandon's post editing, IMHO.

I'm not pleased with M's decision on that score either, Sharky. This whole situation has been a fiasco from the word go.

We must be a mockery to MI6. Not that' they'd know I suppose or we should care but still. Looking over this thread it's a joke. The fact he's back in here after a ban, that we can't again it seems without losing people, that a post is mocked up to lessen damage to the forum overall etc, etc, etc. As Sean Connery once remarked in a film, "it's an unsatisfactory state of affairs."

I'm not one to jump forums. Last time j7 was such a nauisance on old MI6 I stuck it out but there were other idiots. I remember a thread in the comments section or whatever it was that became some bitchfest that went on forever.

Act now M, I ask. Kick it into touch or whatever the expression is.

lummy, longest nonsensical post or what

I've defended the presence of "cult figures" in our forums in the past, but I seriously don't agree with j7 being here right now, in light of what's gone on in this thread.

Well, something to that effect. I still find people like j7 to be harmless jesters, and can ignore his posts just as easily as I'd hope everyone else would be able to. Is this whole caper really worth all this fuss or is it just a dry week Skyfall-wise...?

Ban him for that f*ckwittedly insensitive post in the Tony Scott obituaries. He was given one last life, wasn't he? That comment is worth a life. If this site were Pac-Man, j7 would have lost a life for that comment.

It's in everyone's best interests just to get rid.

Seriously. Weigh it up:

1. A forum without Ambler, then possibly LS, Brown, Blunt, Hilly, etc, but with the massive consolation prize of j7wild being here spouting insensitive sh*te all the time, offending people and lowering our stock.

2. No j7wild, but everybody else still here, hopefully including Dog Bond. Dog, this guy j7 is a grown man with kids, or so he claims. We're not talking a dumbass kid here whose sins we should forgive because he's young and knows no better. This is a grown man of little thought, little tact and little consideration who ignores and doesn't give a sh*t about every single warning or chance he's been given around here.

I'm getting pretty fucking fed up with this too. The forums become less fun with each passing day. Not just because of j7's presence - he has, at least, toed the line since he was given a repreive (except for that Tony Scott comment) - but because of some of the reactions from people. I know, some of us have an axe to grind with him, but I'm talking about editing his posts to put in disparaging comments, or flooding the Multiplex subforum with useless threads with j7's name in the title. If I were a moderator, I'd be inclined to ban some of you for doing this shit; the fact that you're moderators and doing it anyway makes it all the more embarrassing, both for yourself and for the forums.

I'm not in the business of issuing ultimatums, so I'm not threatening to leave until j7 is banned, but there's some fucking childish behaviour from people who really ought to know better, and I'm having a hard time respecting them for it. This place was created as an alternative to MI6book and CBn, but in the time sicne j7's return, a select group of people have managed to do more damage to the forum's credibility and reputation than j7 himself has. I never thought I'd say this, but at least I can respect him for not taking the criticisms to heart. Some others have got a lot of work to do after a few of the fucking stupid stunts they'd pulled. My respect might not mean that much to you, but that won't change the fact that you've managed to lose it.

Let's get some perspective here. The only tampering done to j7's posts were overt, PG-rated pictures usually placed at the end of one of his inane posts. Appropriate? Probably not. However, if he actually thought some of his offending remarks were tampered with, he could've brought it up with M who would've, no doubt, had the technical means to check whether any Mods edited said posts.

As it stands, I think it's fair to say stuff like this came straight from j7's keyboard:

https://bondandbeyond.forumotion.com/t886p15-downey-jr-and-mel-gibson-both-class-acts

j7wild wrote:

wait.... didn't the Jews betrayed Jesus to the Romans for 30 Silver coins?

and as far as Mel saying Jews control the banks and the world, isn't that true?

I have a friend who is Jewish and he says he knows some Jews will betray their own Mothers and Fathers and Children to make a dollar!!

Just ban the fucker so we can stop this endless wank over him.

CJB wrote:

The only tampering done to j7's posts were overt, PG-rated pictures usually placed at the end of one of his inane posts.

Actually, after his first post in the film obituraires thread - in response to Tony Scott's suicide - someone edited j7's post to include "Edit: I'm a c***", but it was quickly removed.

I meant the edits done prior to him being banned. Point is, j7 has no grounds to claim his offensive posts were fabricated. He wasn't banned because of oversized smilies, he was banned because of rants like the one I just posted above.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

CJB wrote:

The only tampering done to j7's posts were overt, PG-rated pictures usually placed at the end of one of his inane posts.

Actually, after his first post in the film obituraires thread - in response to Tony Scott's suicide - someone edited j7's post to include "Edit: I'm a c***", but it was quickly removed.

That may have been pretty salty language, but it was still clearly an overt edit done by somebody else - I have to wonder if Dog Bond was really being honest with herself when she characterised it as a serious attempt to '[make] it seem like [he was] calling [himself] a c unt'.

Let's not also forget that the comment disappeared (presumably self-censored) before it was even reported in this thread.

The fact that it was done in the first place makes it pretty disgraceful.

j7 will be suspended later today. I'll do it, and I'll make sure he understands the situation. During his suspension, we'll decide rationally whether or not to allow him back.

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

I'm getting pretty fucking fed up with this too. The forums become less fun with each passing day. Not just because of j7's presence - he has, at least, toed the line since he was given a repreive (except for that Tony Scott comment) - but because of some of the reactions from people. I know, some of us have an axe to grind with him, but I'm talking about editing his posts to put in disparaging comments, or flooding the Multiplex subforum with useless threads with j7's name in the title. If I were a moderator, I'd be inclined to ban some of you for doing this shit; the fact that you're moderators and doing it anyway makes it all the more embarrassing, both for yourself and for the forums.

I'm not in the business of issuing ultimatums, so I'm not threatening to leave until j7 is banned, but there's some fucking childish behaviour from people who really ought to know better, and I'm having a hard time respecting them for it. This place was created as an alternative to MI6book and CBn, but in the time sicne j7's return, a select group of people have managed to do more damage to the forum's credibility and reputation than j7 himself has. I never thought I'd say this, but at least I can respect him for not taking the criticisms to heart. Some others have got a lot of work to do after a few of the fucking stupid stunts they'd pulled. My respect might not mean that much to you, but that won't change the fact that you've managed to lose it.

Colour me purple, give me a spanking and call me an elephant, because I'm in complete and utter agreement with Prisoner Monkeys.

All of the mods who've edited posts so far have owned up, except the one who edited "I'm a c***" into j7's post in the obituary thread, before coming to his senses. It's time for whoever it is to show us he's a responsible adult worthy of moderator status, by having the cojones to admit he made a serious f*ckup.

M wrote:

j7 will be suspended later today. I'll do it, and I'll make sure he understands the situation. During his suspension, we'll decide rationally whether or not to allow him back.

A step in the right direction. But as I've said before, I favor a full and permanent ban for the good of the site.

PS--I agree with Sharky. The Mods who screwed up have fessed up. As long as they've learned from this incident and refrain from pulling similar stunts in the future, I have no problem with them remaining Moderators. But I also believe a "No Tolerance" policy should be issued in order to forestall any future malfeasance.

Vesper wrote:

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

I'm getting pretty fucking fed up with this too. The forums become less fun with each passing day. Not just because of j7's presence - he has, at least, toed the line since he was given a repreive (except for that Tony Scott comment) - but because of some of the reactions from people. I know, some of us have an axe to grind with him, but I'm talking about editing his posts to put in disparaging comments, or flooding the Multiplex subforum with useless threads with j7's name in the title. If I were a moderator, I'd be inclined to ban some of you for doing this shit; the fact that you're moderators and doing it anyway makes it all the more embarrassing, both for yourself and for the forums.

I'm not in the business of issuing ultimatums, so I'm not threatening to leave until j7 is banned, but there's some fucking childish behaviour from people who really ought to know better, and I'm having a hard time respecting them for it. This place was created as an alternative to MI6book and CBn, but in the time sicne j7's return, a select group of people have managed to do more damage to the forum's credibility and reputation than j7 himself has. I never thought I'd say this, but at least I can respect him for not taking the criticisms to heart. Some others have got a lot of work to do after a few of the fucking stupid stunts they'd pulled. My respect might not mean that much to you, but that won't change the fact that you've managed to lose it.

Colour me purple, give me a spanking and call me an elephant, because I'm in complete and utter agreement with Prisoner Monkeys.

I'll pass on the spanking part but yes, I agree with quite a bit of what Monkeys has to say here. But I think a lot of us, myself definitely included, could have acted better or differently over j7wild.

Anyway, speaking of which, I've sent j7 this message via both PM and e-mail:

Quote :

Hi j7,

It is with regret that I have no choice but to impose a suspension on your membership here. While, the odd insensitive comment aside, you've done little wrong since being allowed back on to the forums, the fact that you were allowed back to begin with has caused far too much unrest among far too many members here to the point where the constant PMs, posts and complaints about it is consuming far to much of my own time and that of others here. People have threatened to leave if you go, but far more people are likely to leave if you stay, that's the current state of play here. I hope you understand that I have no option but to act now before things get any worse.

The length of this suspension is yet to be properly determined, so please ignore any length of time stated as this will simply be stated to confirm a current and, for the time being at least, ongoing suspension. The members here will spend the duration of this suspension trying to come to an agreement or compromise regarding whether or not the suspension can be lifted and under what terms this could be done. If no agreement can be reached within the next week, the suspension will remain ongoing unless or until there is any change in the mindset of many members here regarding your presence on the forums.

This is a suspension as opposed to a permanent ban for the simple reason that I never want to have to ban anybody from these forums, which was a big reason behind me allowing you back in after your initial ban here. There will be repercussions to this current suspension, and I may lose some good members because of it, so I hope you understand that I haven't made this decision lightly. In fact, I've done everything within my power to try and persuade people here to give you a chance, but the unrest among members is fast becomng unmanageable. I have no choice but to do this, because right now it's probably a case of either doing this or banning you permanently, something I have no real wish to do to anybody on these forums.

Your membership here will be suspended later this evening. I can't give a definite time for the suspension as other matters need attending to and other members need to be contacted regarding the situation. I'm up to my arse in PMs over this. I just wanted to let you know the exact state of play to avoid there being any confusion once your membership is suspended.

In the meantime my apologies, but I no longer have much of a choice in this matter, and I hope you understand this.


Sincerely, and best wishes,


M

I hope this clarifies the situation for not only j7 but everybody else here. j7's suspension may or may not be permanent (so please don't go leaving just yet if you're in j7's corner), but for at least the short-term forseeable future he won't be here. So hopefully the abuse of the archive section can end and we can get back to discussing Skyfall and tits.

Also, thread title altered, a) just to show I have a sense of humour about Lazenby's unhelpful (but admittedly rather funny) protest last night (it annoyed j7 enough for him to PM me a complaint complete with screenshots!), b) because Ambler comes and goes here whether j7 is here or not, and c) this thread has now had all the drama, length and intensity of a Ludlum novel, thus the thread title seems befitting.

Sigh. Back to my ever-increasing pile of PMs.


Sincerely,

M

Ol' j7 won't react I'd imagine like the other times he's been suspended/banned. It'll be as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened. Poor blighter.

Vesper wrote:

Colour me purple, give me a spanking and call me an elephant, because I'm in complete and utter agreement with Prisoner Monkeys.

Must be mellowing a little Vesp :)

Largo's Shark wrote:

All of the mods who've edited posts so far have owned up, except the one who edited "I'm a c***" into j7's post in the obituary thread, before coming to his senses. It's time for whoever it is to show us he's a responsible adult worthy of moderator status, by having the cojones to admit he made a serious f*ckup.

I wish I could own up but I fear pansy that I am, I never resort to such language unlike others. Besides, I like to think I'd have the imagination or lack thereof to edit something else into his posts :)

Just suspended j7. Feel crap about it, as the guy just stood there and let me shoot. Received a frustrated but understanding PM from him beforehand. We need to get our policies in place and move on. We can discuss j7's future (if he has one here) in due course when things are less heated. He's currently suspended until Christmas Eve, just in case we forget about him and he's short on Christmas cards. I'm hoping we can all reach an understanding or compromise before then though. For instance, if we allow him back for Skyfall, he may just blend in and talk about the film instead of politics. I don't know....

Prisoner Monkeys wrote:

CJB wrote:

The only tampering done to j7's posts were overt, PG-rated pictures usually placed at the end of one of his inane posts.

Actually, after his first post in the film obituraires thread - in response to Tony Scott's suicide - someone edited j7's post to include "Edit: I'm a c***", but it was quickly removed.

Why didn't you take a screenshot of that? You seem to be the only one who saw it.