British Politics thread

I see on Spacebook and other places that the anti-war* Left types are framing the operation through the terminology of "Bombing Syria" which naturally sounds worse than "Bombing ISIL" or "Bombing ISIL-occupied territory in Syria." I rarely see the airstrikes Britain and others have already been conducting for over a year being referred to as "Bombing Iraq."

*Unless the war is being conducted by V. V. Putin.

CJB wrote:

You probably wouldn't even need a "Grand Alliance" to defeat ISIL in a conventional ground war. They're not the Wehrmacht, they're a pack of neckbearded losers who can't even operate RPGs without blowing themselves to shit. The question is whether the air campaign will actually destroy ISIL rather than (at best) contain it within the territory it already holds.

This is why I find the comparisons to Nazi Germany so odd.
They don't even have a fraction of the Nazis operational capabilities!

CJB wrote:

I see on Spacebook and other places that the anti-war* Left types are framing the operation through the terminology of "Bombing Syria" which naturally sounds worse than "Bombing ISIL" or "Bombing ISIL-occupied territory in Syria." I rarely see the airstrikes Britain and others have already been conducting for over a year being referred to as "Bombing Iraq."

*Unless the war is being conducted by V. V. Putin.

My main objection - if I were a Brit - would be that the operational value of the operation is unclear at best.

In early October, the USAF brass was complaining about a lack of good ISIS targets.

Since then, both Russia and France have started operations of their own.

What exactly is Britain going to target that is not yet being done by the existing coalition?

CJB wrote:

You probably wouldn't even need a "Grand Alliance" to defeat ISIL in a conventional ground war. They're not the Wehrmacht, they're a pack of neckbearded losers who can't even operate RPGs without blowing themselves to shit. The question is whether the air campaign will actually destroy ISIL rather than (at best) contain it within the territory it already holds.

A modestly sized ground force - if only to better direct the air strikes - would likely do a lot of damage.
The question is what happens after that. In a power vacuum, another one of these groups will emerge again.
Perhaps not immediately, but eventually.

Unless the West chooses to support a couple of repressive dictators.
Which, as a proposition, likely is becoming increasingly more appealing.

The problem with air strikes or any conventional type offensive seem to me is that many of the most dangerous and threatening members are actually distributed across the globe, there is no ultimate objective to take or surrender that can be made meaningful. I agree we need to take decisive action but in terms of long term result I am not confident there is a solution on the table in any form at present.

Solidarity is the greatest achievement we can probably hope for atm, but in that we need a range of suggestions and solutions which look beyond the short term.

The results of the Litvinenko inquiry are very interesting.
They could also serve as a litmus test in terms of what kind of a nation Cameron wants Britain to be.
If the reaction is just going to be limited to kicking out a few diplomats and foreign intelligence personnel, that is sending the wrong message.

The Litvinenko story wouldn't have shamed Le Carre. Or Fleming, come to that.

The amazing thing about it is the combination of the use of a sophisticated means of assassinating the man in the hands of men who can only be described as irresponsible, bumbling fools.

The Empire strikes back!

I hope article 50 is invoked ASAP and negotiations start soon. It's in no one's interest if the trade deal takes any longer than necessary.

The populist revolt happening across the West is really something to behold. The Left's constant derision of mainstream people as bigots and racists has come home to roost.

http://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-uk-wont-be-less-united-or-less-european/

Quote :

Johnson said he agreed with Cameron that there was no need to immediately invoke Article 50 of the European treaty which starts the process of taking Britain out of what Johnson called “the supranational system.”

I would disagree with that. There are no benefits to either side dragging their feet at this point. Both the EU and Britain should do everything to make this a swift divorce. The longer it takes to negotiate the new trade deal, the larger the strain will be on both the European and British economy.

Aaaand down goes Cameroon!

The message sent to Scotland and NI is not very good, it is beginning to look like we'll have to reserve a space in the Obituaries section for the United Kingdom. Ironically on a day when we have people screaming we have our country back we have actually got a timebomb ticking at its heart. That and the fact that love him or loathe him Cameron is easily the best of a bad bunch at present.

A sad day imo.

Yep. The wheels for Scotland's second independence referendum are either already in motion or soon will be, and here in Northern Ireland there are calls by Republican politicians for an all-Ireland referendum.

According to Facebook trends and First Minister of Scotland, another vote on Scottish Independence is possible.

While there are much bigger fish to fry at the moment, I wonder if this will play into Bond 25 at all.

Not for the first time the rest of the world thinks we're idiots.

Aside from big fish like Northern Ireland and Scotland, the Spanish now are pressing for joint-sovereignty of Gibraltar claiming the Spanish flag is closer than ever to fly on the Rock.

Feels a greater sense of division in the country than I've known in my lifetime. Certainly the most dramatic day in politics for a while. My social network is inundated with righteous indignation, worries and soapboxing. Sort of envy people in 1975 not having this crap.

The English people are well within their right to leave the EU.
What I don't understand is the dragging of feet by some of the Leave camp now that they have got what they want. The moment Leave won, this became about more than just the EU or the UK. This has implications for the world economy, so both the UK and the EU owe it to our trade partners to sort this out as quickly as possible.

Trump lands in Scotland (where the vote was strongly pro-Remain, but that seems to have passed the Donald by) and tweets about how 'the place is going wild because they voted to take their country back, just like we're going to!'

Social media responded in kind -

They say the same thing about Brits.

They can take their share of the British national debt and fuck off if they like.

The calls for a second referendum are stupid. If Remain then wins, do we then go for best two out of three? The people have made their decision, the fact that it might be inconvenient for some in both the majority and the opposition is of no consequence.

Looks like Comrade Corbyn is in trouble.

My knowledge of UK parliamentarians is far from extensive, but that Hilary Benn chap gave a stirring speech on the necessity of giving ISIL a good British spanking. Moral clarity that we need more of, particularly from the centre-Left.

There are heavy rumors that Labour is desperate to get rid of Corbyn because of the impending release of the Chilcot report, and the fact that the Blairite faction of the party knows that Corbyn will have no qualms in throwing Tony Blair under the bus.

Corbyn is an odd figure, not typical of Parliament or Westminster and that may well be an ace up the sleeve no one expected. Anti- establishment feeling is at an all time high (ironically the leave camp is 'establishment' of a much older kind but here gained some support from a general anti-government vote). The Unions and non parliamentary Labour party are rallying to his aid and it might mean a radical change in how labour are represented in the government. On the other side of the house, love him or loathe him are there any credible alternatives to Cameron? Is it any wonder confidence in the UK is in free fall.....as Men in Black note...a person can be smart but people are just stupid, I think we've just proven that!

Is it possible that the Labour party could split, with the union-base/grassroots on one side and the old Blairite wing on the other?