Riots Across England

Just sickening. That's all I can say.

Anyone mind grabbing me a TV?

It's disgusting to see what's happening but it's the perfect example of criminal opportunism. What strikes me is the lack of resources and strategy by the police however they can't be tougher because they'll have human rights to worry about.

I thought it was pretty cool until it hit Bristol. Now I reckon Cameron should call in NATO.

I wonder when the government will start killing some of them?

What's pissing me off more than anything is that the yobs outside of Tottenham are jumping on the bandwagon and thinking they can get away with it. And they are getting away with it. Initially, there was a serious political debate to be had. Now all we've got is the BBC banging on about the Brixton riots - "Don't panic everyone, it happened before and we've all learnt from it". That's absolute bollocks. If 'we' had all learnt from it, it wouldn't have happened again. And then they wheel out the posh, white politicians from yesteryear who pretend to know exactly what's going on in the minds of deprived youths. Of course, a lot of them are scum, but many of them are young men (and women) that the government have failed. And they need to sort it out.

Brap, 40p bag of rice is sweet loot.

Hell Is Here, Great Britain.

And it's coming for America, too.

G section wrote:

What's pissing me off more than anything is that the yobs outside of Tottenham are jumping on the bandwagon and thinking they can get away with it. And they are getting away with it. Initially, there was a serious political debate to be had. Now all we've got is the BBC banging on about the Brixton riots - "Don't panic everyone, it happened before and we've all learnt from it". That's absolute bollocks. If 'we' had all learnt from it, it wouldn't have happened again. And then they wheel out the posh, white politicians from yesteryear who pretend to know exactly what's going on in the minds of deprived youths. Of course, a lot of them are scum, but many of them are young men (and women) that the government have failed. And they need to sort it out.

These "youths" aren't deprived; they're living off the fat of a massive welfare state. Want to see deprivation? Go to a Third World country.

Tunis, Egypt, Bahrain, Libya, Syria... England?

Seriously though, while I reckon England has a clusterfuck of socio-economic problems, these looters seem more concerned about their bad-boy images and street rep rather than doing anything meaningful with their lives. I've read about some pretty affluent kids being involved too. I know this type of gansta-wannabe subculture exists in nearly every country I've been to, and clearly England is no exception.

Kudos to this woman though:

http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

G section wrote:

What's pissing me off more than anything is that the yobs outside of Tottenham are jumping on the bandwagon and thinking they can get away with it. And they are getting away with it. Initially, there was a serious political debate to be had. Now all we've got is the BBC banging on about the Brixton riots - "Don't panic everyone, it happened before and we've all learnt from it". That's absolute bollocks. If 'we' had all learnt from it, it wouldn't have happened again. And then they wheel out the posh, white politicians from yesteryear who pretend to know exactly what's going on in the minds of deprived youths. Of course, a lot of them are scum, but many of them are young men (and women) that the government have failed. And they need to sort it out.

These "youths" aren't deprived; they're living off the fat of a massive welfare state. Want to see deprivation? Go to a Third World country.

Surely a lack of a decent education, job opportunities and hope for a better future qualifies as deprivation, even if it's not on the same scale as those who live in a third world country? With all due respect Ed, I'd say it's mild ignorance to say that "they're living off the fat of a massive welfare state" and in doing so lumping them all in the same group. They aren't all the "gangsta wannabes" that Gogol describes. And if they aren't "youths" then what would you say they are?

HJackson wrote:

Brap, 40p bag of rice is sweet loot.

If it were me, I'd call in the military, shoot them all, and then blame Bin Laden.

Why is everyone acting like the Middle East riots were for the 'good fight', while the rioters in the UK are just blatant scumbags? Obviously, nobody's been keeping up with news on Egypt. Compared to what happened there on the large scale, these UK riots seem mild, despite all of the jolly photos of post-Mubarak Egypt that MSNBC cherry picked and aired. :roll:

Maybe these rioters in England can redeem themselves by overthrowing the government and setting up a military dictatorship. That's 'good' rioting.

bondfan06 wrote:

What strikes me is the lack of resources and strategy by the police however they can't be tougher because they'll have human rights to worry about.

Britain swapped a police force for a police service. Don't expect social workers to protect you or your property.

Mr. Brown wrote:

Why is everyone acting like the Middle East riots were for the 'good fight', while the rioters in the UK are just blatant scumbags? Obviously, nobody's been keeping up with news on Egypt. Compared to what happened there on the large scale, these UK riots seem mild, despite all of the jolly photos of post-Mubarak Egypt that MSNBC cherry picked and aired. :roll:

The chaos and violence of the Arab awakening and the validity of the movement are two separate things for me. It's hard to argue against the fact that most of those people have been living under real and de facto dictatorships for decades. Do they deserve a chance at democracy any less than the Iraqis?

G section wrote:

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

G section wrote:

What's pissing me off more than anything is that the yobs outside of Tottenham are jumping on the bandwagon and thinking they can get away with it. And they are getting away with it. Initially, there was a serious political debate to be had. Now all we've got is the BBC banging on about the Brixton riots - "Don't panic everyone, it happened before and we've all learnt from it". That's absolute bollocks. If 'we' had all learnt from it, it wouldn't have happened again. And then they wheel out the posh, white politicians from yesteryear who pretend to know exactly what's going on in the minds of deprived youths. Of course, a lot of them are scum, but many of them are young men (and women) that the government have failed. And they need to sort it out.

These "youths" aren't deprived; they're living off the fat of a massive welfare state. Want to see deprivation? Go to a Third World country.

Surely a lack of a decent education, job opportunities and hope for a better future qualifies as deprivation, even if it's not on the same scale as those who live in a third world country? With all due respect Ed, I'd say it's mild ignorance to say that "they're living off the fat of a massive welfare state" and in doing so lumping them all in the same group. They aren't all the "gangsta wannabes" that Gogol describes. And if they aren't "youths" then what would you say they are?

Education is far more widely available today than it has ever been. Job opportunities may not exist, but that is because massive social spending has destroyed economic productivity. But what happens when you cut back on social spending? Just ask the Greeks. And I suspect these British "youths" (hoodlums is the more appropriate term) would do the Greeks one better if the PM threatened to cut back on welfare. Indeed, seems I remember British college "youths" recently going on some sort of rampage because the government made noises about removing some perquisite or other. And as to "luming them all together," well they are the lumpen proletariat.

Bottom line, whatever causes you wish to posit for this behavior, there is absolutely no excuse for it whatsoever. Were my situation hopeless I would never think to burn buildings, destroy other people's property, loot, beat, mug and kill. People who resort that this sort of barbarism are scum, plain and simple and deserve to be treated as such, both by law enforcement and the legal system, and by lawful fellow citizens.

Salomé wrote:

Mr. Brown wrote:

Why is everyone acting like the Middle East riots were for the 'good fight', while the rioters in the UK are just blatant scumbags? Obviously, nobody's been keeping up with news on Egypt. Compared to what happened there on the large scale, these UK riots seem mild, despite all of the jolly photos of post-Mubarak Egypt that MSNBC cherry picked and aired. :roll:

The chaos and violence of the Arab awakening and the validity of the movement are two separate things for me. It's hard to argue against the fact that most of those people have been living under real and de facto dictatorships for decades. Do they deserve a chance at democracy any less than the Iraqis?

Is democracy what they want? Seems to me their desires are obscure and manifold. Democracy may well be one small sliver in a very large plank.

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

Salomé wrote:

Mr. Brown wrote:

Why is everyone acting like the Middle East riots were for the 'good fight', while the rioters in the UK are just blatant scumbags? Obviously, nobody's been keeping up with news on Egypt. Compared to what happened there on the large scale, these UK riots seem mild, despite all of the jolly photos of post-Mubarak Egypt that MSNBC cherry picked and aired. :roll:

The chaos and violence of the Arab awakening and the validity of the movement are two separate things for me. It's hard to argue against the fact that most of those people have been living under real and de facto dictatorships for decades. Do they deserve a chance at democracy any less than the Iraqis?

Is democracy what they want? Seems to me their desires are obscure and manifold. Democracy may well be one small sliver in a very large plank.

Well initially their desire was likely to simply get rid of their current ruler. Time will tell what or whom comes in the place. But it would be naive to expect perfectly working democratic institution to naturally appear out of the vacuum of power.

But you don't perceive the self-empowerment as a positive then Khanners?

Salomé wrote:

Mr. Brown wrote:

Why is everyone acting like the Middle East riots were for the 'good fight', while the rioters in the UK are just blatant scumbags? Obviously, nobody's been keeping up with news on Egypt. Compared to what happened there on the large scale, these UK riots seem mild, despite all of the jolly photos of post-Mubarak Egypt that MSNBC cherry picked and aired. :roll:

The chaos and violence of the Arab awakening and the validity of the movement are two separate things for me. It's hard to argue against the fact that most of those people have been living under real and de facto dictatorships for decades. Do they deserve a chance at democracy any less than the Iraqis?

Right, but that dream of democracy was short-lived.

It all sounded great when MSNBC turned it into an underdog story, though, I must admit.



THE BATTLE OF ALGIERS was released on Criterion Blu-Ray today, by the way.

Only the most naive ever believed it would happen overnight.

However, for improvement to have any chance, the status quo had to be shattered. What happens next will determine if anything resembling a truly democratic governance has any chance of blossoming, but I don't expect it to happen within a single decade. Best case scenario is a generation, with quite a few stumbles along the way.

I can't imagine this being a mere coincidence...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/movers-and-shakers/sports/?tag=vig-21

HJackson wrote:

I thought it was pretty cool until it hit Bristol.

Please explain: why is it cool?

FYI, I reside in South Hackney, and here it's a fucking nightmare. Press helicopters and sirens keeping me awake at night, car bombs etc. Had to run to Tescos to stock up in supplies, before they closed at midday. It's like a bloody siege, with more than a few parallels to the Brixton, Liverpool and LA riots.

Hope Lazzers is alright in Liverpool.

Here's a few good articles and videos:

http://order-order.com/2011/08/09/organised-anarchy/

Quote :

Organised Anarchy

As embers smoulder across London, fingers of blame are going to be pointed. While there’s no doubt this spread spontaneously beyond anyone’s wildest plans, leaflets found in the broken glass show this hasn’t been a completely disorganised effort:

Guido is looking into what exactly law firm Bindmans knew about their contact details making it on to these leaflets:

Quote :

The Third Estate@thethirdestate
The Third Estate
For anyone heading to places where riots are: 1) Mask up. Properly, not just a hood. 2) Bindmans solicitors if you get nicked: 02078334433
August 8, 2011 2:23 pm via TweetDeckReplyRetweetFavorite

It’s pleasantly surprising to see some of the usual agitators condemning what is the logical consequence of their rhetoric, but many leftists are still cranking things up. Take the Anti-Cuts Space:

“We offer unapologetic solidarity and support to those involved in the UK uprisings these past nights. This sentiment extends to both the rioters and to those communities affected by them…

…When the working class community begins such a fight, there can be no doubt where loyalties should lie: With ALL of them and against the police and government.”

“Bloomsbury Fight” who came to prominence during the student protests last year were ecstatic as it started to look like their dreams are coming true:

Quote :

Bloomsbury Fight!@BloomsburyFight
Bloomsbury Fight!
LONDON IS THE WORLD'S BIGGEST BLACK BLOC #londonriots #clapham #hackney #chalkfarm #lewisham
about 17 hours ago via TweetDeckReplyRetweetFavorite

And who did firebrand Labour MP John McDonnell find to blame? The bankers of course…

Quote :

John McDonnell@johnmcdonnellMP
John McDonnell
Reaping what has been sown over 3 decades of creating grotesquely unequal society,with alienated young copying ethos of looting bankers.
about 18 hours ago via Twitter for iPhoneReplyRetweetFavorite

¡Viva la Revolución![/color]

And here's the mind-numbing blog entry in full. Note: the careful absolving of any blame on the rioters, and placing it squarely on, you guessed it: "capitalism".

Quote :

We offer unapologetic solidarity and support to those involved in the UK uprisings these past nights. This sentiment extends to both the rioters and to those communities affected by them. We also acknowledge that the unrest has ruined many people’s livelihoods, and homes have been burnt and agree that these will always be the wrong targets for attack. But we know that this sort of looting and destruction are the last actions of the completely impoverished and disenfranchised.

Once again, politicians, the media, and police chiefs tell us that ‘criminal elements’ have ‘hijacked’ legitimate grievances and that ‘thugs’ and ‘outsiders’ are responsible. As the riots spread across the capital and country there are fewer and fewer ways to be an ‘outsider.’ If not ours, then from which society are these rioters?

If the media want to deny one thing, it is that these riots are popular. But surely thousands of masked men and women cannot be “no-one”? Or are they to be deemed of less worth simply because they are unemployed in a country with no more jobs.

Theresa May tells us that ‘violence is never justified’ – yet the police killed Mark Duggan and our government bomb Libya every night. Nick Clegg has said ‘this is nothing but pure criminality’ – yet he predicted exactly this unrest in the election campaign when warning against austerity measures implemented by a government with no mandate. And Boris Johnson, naturally, informs the public that the only people to blame for the rioting are the rioters themselves.

We believe a state monopoly on violence will always destroy communities. We believe that criminality is no good test of whether an action is right. We put the blame for the riots solely on the structural inequalities inherent and persistent in our country and the continued theft of the material resources of the working class. Simply put, the conditions of many today are poverty, experienced alongside marginalization and racism at the hands of the state. They call this an “austerity programme.” They shall reap what they sow.

Community leaders have been wheeled out to continue the division of communities into the ‘good’ and the ‘bad’, as if their communities are not united in suffering oppression and poverty. We urge them not to desert anyone from their community. The Labour Party has clearly abandoned any pretence of representing the working class we see on the streets. MPs Dianne Abbot and David Lammy premise their condemnation of the unrest on the bizarre opinion that those involved are not “representative of the community” but when whole council estates in Hackney come together to destroy CCTV cameras, and attack the police who routinely brutalise tenants, we know this premise is false. In the last few days we have seen an alienated working class on the streets, young and old, multicultural – and united.

The spark for this uprising was the police killing a man, which they subsequently misinformed the family and the public about. From Blair Peach to Cynthia Jarret, from Ian Tomlinson to Smiley Culture and the 1000s of others killed in police custody down the decades, the police kill people and then they lie about it. No-one honestly doubts this any more, and the police surely cannot have expected to continue this disgusting pattern with impunity forever.

The combustion on the streets of London is an indictment of the state of the country, the tragedy of lost homes a painful indictment of today’s society. And yet these events will continue to be likely whilst the working class and black communities suffer oppression at the hands of global corporations, austerity measures, and the police. When the working class community begins such a fight, there can be no doubt where loyalties should lie: With ALL of them and against the police and government.

http://anticutsspace.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/a-message-to-a-country-on-fire/

Down the road from my flat:



Around other parts of London:











Re Avarace - agreed entirely. When you've got a castrated, undereducated and incompetent police, these sort of screw-ups (including Tomlinson, Menezes etc.) are inevitable.

Sharky wrote:

HJackson wrote:

I thought it was pretty cool until it hit Bristol.

Please explain: why is it cool?

I didn't actually think it was cool, I was joking. Probably inappropriate, but the tone on other forums I visit has been rather more jocular than on here. The scenes across the country are, of course, an utter disgrace. Glad it hasn't flared up as badly tonight, it appears, because I recall it was already pretty bad by this time last night.

Interesting that the BBC has buried the report that Duggan didn't fire at the police. Shame it will probably be ignored due to the thuggery we've seen.

Salomé wrote:

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

Salomé wrote:

Mr. Brown wrote:

Why is everyone acting like the Middle East riots were for the 'good fight', while the rioters in the UK are just blatant scumbags? Obviously, nobody's been keeping up with news on Egypt. Compared to what happened there on the large scale, these UK riots seem mild, despite all of the jolly photos of post-Mubarak Egypt that MSNBC cherry picked and aired. :roll:

The chaos and violence of the Arab awakening and the validity of the movement are two separate things for me. It's hard to argue against the fact that most of those people have been living under real and de facto dictatorships for decades. Do they deserve a chance at democracy any less than the Iraqis?

Is democracy what they want? Seems to me their desires are obscure and manifold. Democracy may well be one small sliver in a very large plank.

But you don't perceive the self-empowerment as a positive then Khanners?

Depends on what they do with that power once they've attained it.

Quote :

Why is everyone acting like the Middle East riots were for the 'good fight', while the rioters in the UK are just blatant scumbags?

Because:

a) The UK rioters are not overthrowing a 42 year dictatorship.

b) The Libyan rebels are not deliberately attacking their own neighborhoods and looting business.

c) The Met (London Metropolitan Police) or army are not sniping protestors from rooftops, or taking the wounded from hospitals at night.

Q.E.D.

In short, it's the difference between political idealism and plain old anarchy.

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

Salomé wrote:

Ed Tom Kowalsky wrote:

Salomé wrote:

Mr. Brown wrote:

Why is everyone acting like the Middle East riots were for the 'good fight', while the rioters in the UK are just blatant scumbags? Obviously, nobody's been keeping up with news on Egypt. Compared to what happened there on the large scale, these UK riots seem mild, despite all of the jolly photos of post-Mubarak Egypt that MSNBC cherry picked and aired. :roll:

The chaos and violence of the Arab awakening and the validity of the movement are two separate things for me. It's hard to argue against the fact that most of those people have been living under real and de facto dictatorships for decades. Do they deserve a chance at democracy any less than the Iraqis?

Is democracy what they want? Seems to me their desires are obscure and manifold. Democracy may well be one small sliver in a very large plank.

But you don't perceive the self-empowerment as a positive then Khanners?

Depends on what they do with that power once they've attained it.

What's the difference with Iraqi freedom, other than the fact that these people "freed" themselves?