The inevitability of a black Bond

Mrs Morley in North Wales brings this article from the Welsh Highlands to here...



Could Idris Elba be the next James Bond?Naomie Harris hints at future castingOct 25th 2012 By George Wales

Quote :

While Daniel Craig is still in line to don the tuxedo for a couple more outings yet, there will always be rumours surrounding his eventual replacement.

One of the names who keeps cropping up is Idris Elba, with many people feeling that it’s only a matter of time before we get a black Bond (although the way Colin Salmon is carrying on on Strictly, you’d think we’d already had one!)

Now, Skyfall star Naomie Harris has had her say on the matter, and reveals that Elba has already met with producer Barbara Broccoli to discuss the possibility.

“I didn't realise that there was this talk and then I did a film with Idris and he said that he met Barbara Broccoli and that it does seem like there is a possibility in the future that there could very well be a black James Bond," says Harris.

"And I would have to vote for Idris because I just finished working with him and he's a great guy." Intriguing stuff, although we’d say there’s plenty of life in Daniel Craig for a while to come. Skyfall opens in UK cinemas on Friday.

Read our Skyfall review, and get involved in our Bond Fortnight.

Source: Worst Previews
Would Elba make a good Bond? Tell us, below!

link--------------- http://www.totalfilm.com/news/could-idris-elba-be-the-next-james-bond

Oh boy.

*4000 post, cheers*

Python wrote:

Oh boy.

*4000 post, cheers*

*mini-wave and celebration*

Given that Craig seems set to be around for another four or five years, it's probably too late for Idris. It's a shame as he's a decent actor. Same goes for Paterson Joseph or Lennie James. Just slightly too old.

I still think Andrew Buchan could be good as Bond especially if EoN decides to stay with Northerners who are rough at the edges. He'll be about 38 in 2016.

With the direction Bond is headed, Tom Hardy seems the likely successor to Craig. In other words, the second-to-last guy in the world I'd've picked. But my wife will be over the moon about it (and it will probably take somebody of Hardy's talent to get her to see another Bond movie anyway, regardless of what a Bond movie is by then.)

He's very, very, very sexy but ooohhhh the outcry - black James Bond blah blah blah. I'm bored of it already and it hasn't even started. Let him be a villain instead.

Gravy's very own thread on more-or-less the same thing -

https://bondandbeyond.forumotion.com/t824-the-inevitability-of-a-black-bond

Elba's comments there make it sound like he'd be wary of EON's intentions if he was offered it. Taking this 'new' story with a pinch of salt ... if Bonds 24 and 25 follow in 2014 and 2016 (as I believe is the intention) and if Craig steps down then, Bond 26 would presumably go before the cameras in late 2017/early 2018, by which time Elba will be 45. I know that's the age Moore debuted at, but I think Ambler's right ... that's just too old now for a debuting Bond.

Not to mention that it's supposedly been offered to Michael Fassbender (who, incidentally, will be 40 in '17) when Craig's decided he's done with it. And to echo what Santa said ... yeah, the 'stunt casting' that it would inevitably smack of makes me squirm, if I'm honest.

Merged Hilly's article with the existing thread about Idris.

And again, for the record, as soon as a black actor is cast as Bond, I'm out of here ("here" being a fan of the new Bond; I'll still support the old films).

Bond is not black. Race matters. Skin color matters. Create a new 00-agent series using Idris Elba as 004 or 005. I'd be fine with that. I would go see it. But I will not support a black 007. Never, ever, ever. I'm fookin' fed up wtih the political correctness in this world, or the constant need to have a "black version" of an existing, successful series or movie. The mere notion that Babs seems to be entertaining this ridiculous idea continues to make me detest her.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Bond is not black.

And nor is Felix.

And M is not a woman.

That boat sailed a long time ago, Gravy.

Erica Ambler wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Bond is not black.

And nor is Felix.

And M is not a woman.

That boat sailed a long time ago, Gravy.

Nor is Moneypenny (allegedly ;) ;) ) Trust me, I've had those debates in the past.

Look, it's not a black thing. I'm not a racist. I can't be a racist. My best friend is black. But Bond represents the final straw. Recasting Bond as a black man signals a couple of things: #1 it exposes Babs and EON for having thrown in the towel, creatively speaking. #2 It exposes Babs and EON as having no interest in really continuing on with the series. Clearly they could not expect the film to come anywhere close to profitability, so they'd be likely committing career suicide.

Personally, I just cannot see any responsible studio executive going along with this, but those people in Hollywood live in a bubble anyway, so it wouldn't surprise me.

But EON is on notice: make Bond a black man and you will have crossed a line from which you can never return. I'm sickened that we're even having to address this issue on what should be Bond's triumphant return to cinema. Naomie Harris should have kept her moment of racial solidarity to herself and kept her mouth shut. This is Bond's day, not Idris Elba's.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

I can't be a racist. My best friend is black.

EoN has decided Bond is about reinvention. Ergo there will be a black Bond. And if box office in China develops as hoped there may well be a Chinese Bond as well.

Does it matter? Probably not. After all, you've already got 20-odd Bond films with stiff-assed Brits and a gay Irish-American.

Erica Ambler wrote:

EoN has decided Bond is about reinvention. Ergo there will be a black Bond. And if box office in China develops as hoped there may well be a Chinese Bond someday as well.

Does it matter? Probably not. After all, you've already got 20-odd Bond films with stiff-assed Brits and a gay Irish-American.

Agreed it's about reinvention, but a black Bond isn't going to sell well in, well, anywhere. You really think China and other emerging markets want to see a black Bond? There's always talk about how black actors don't sell well outside of North America....well, it wouldn't get any better by putting Idris Elba in a role as iconic as Bond.

There are varying degrees of reinvention. Elba would go beyond basic reinvention and would simply be a politically correct bone thrown to an audience whose core demographics are neither politically correct nor interested in the sort of liberal theology that Babs would be pushing by hiring Elba. Black audiences will not watch it and black critics will decry the racial stereotyping of having Elba sleeping with white women. Each Bond film will have to have at least one black Bond Girl or, at the very least, an Asian or Latina to balance out having a white Bond Girl. It will be an exercise in futility, with no wins possible, and nothing but losses.

It is total career suicide for everyone involved. It would make George Lazenby's decision pale in comparison.

We've both been to Asia, Gravy. Don't know if you noticed, but the big taboo there is blacks with blondes. Very naughty. Yawn.

Stats bore me, I'd much rather make things up, but isn't/wasn't Will Smoth the biggest male box office draw outside the USA?

Erica Ambler wrote:

We've both been to Asia, Gravy. Don't know if you noticed, but the big taboo there is blacks with blondes. Very naughty. Yawn.

Stats bore me, I'd much rather make things up, but isn't/wasn't Will Smoth the biggest male box office draw outside the USA?

How did you know I've been to Asia? Who told you? :suspect:

And yes, Will Smith has been a big box office draw outside the U.S. But, even according to him, he was always careful to avoid having an on-screen romance with a white woman until HANCOCK. In HITCH they made sure to hire Eva Mendes, because she was considered a safe-alternative to a white woman; a woman that would not alienate Smiths' black audience, but wouldn't make the movie look "too black" either (thereby ensuring white audiences would support the movie). You think that's not an issue? Try Googling the response of black women to Denzel's interracial love scene in HE GOT GAME. Black women went through the roof they were so irate.

In a film industry that is increasing f/x and concept driven, rather than being driven by star power, the days of needing an identifiable, bankable actor are becoming rare. But Bond is an exception; you cannot separate the man from the actor. Feel free, EON, to recast the role with a black man, but do so at your own peril.

There has to be a line drawn in the sand, culture-wise. I have no fears about stating this out in public, even if it meant my removal from the board. I WILL NOT ACCEPT a black 007. In the past, in other forums, I advocated for a Jinx spin-off, a Wai Lin spin-off, a Felix Leiter spin-off....I have no problem with EON expanding the MI6 universe to include female, black, or gay 00-agents, but it cannot be 007. Don't inflict any more social agendas onto THAT character. Do so and i'll quit the series.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

How did you know I've been to Asia? Who told you? :suspect:

NSA.

There are scenes in Skyfall where (and I'm not meaning to sound too much like Laz here) it now seems possible that James Bond can have any look whatsoever from here on in, including different skin tone.

M wrote:

There are scenes in Skyfall where (and I'm not meaning to sound too much like Laz here) it now seems possible that James Bond can have any look whatsoever from here on in, including different skin tone.

I could accept a one-off scene with Bond having to get with a guy in order to get information, though that wouldn't make Bond even bi-sexual. I wouldn't want a succession of films where Bond has 2 Bond Girls and One Bond Guy per movie. If the scene was integral to the plot and tastefully done.... ;) but I cannot and will not accept a black Bond. In a world where we are constantly taught to respect other people's culture, why is the culture of Bond being white, heterosexual, and male something that needs to be altered? What's next? He's no longer British? We saw how that worked out in the first Casino Royale back in 1954. I would no more accept Michael Fassbender as Alex Cross or Zorro than I would Idris Elba as James Bond.....or Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher. It's disrespectful to a person's culture and heritage to ask them to change who they are; clearly that's not acceptance if you're asking someone, or some thing, to alter it's basic, fundamental D.N.A. in order to be politically correct. If skin color makes no difference, why can't Bond remain white? And what would be the value of having a "black Bond" if we're all meant to view a black Bond the same as we would a white Bond? It's a logical fallacy. It makes no sense.

People can argue that not all the actors who have played Bond were Scottish, or didn't look like Bond as Fleming described him, but the distinction between being Welsh or Scottish or Irish is lost on most people outside of the United Kingdom, in much the same way that you can't really tell an American apart from a Canadian just by looking at them. The varying differences between Connery - Craig are still varying degrees of the same thing: white males. Elba is not. If he plays it "white" he'll be criticized for not being authentically black (whatever that means) and if he plays it "black" he'll be accused of slumming it. He can bring nothing ethnic to the role without inviting even more criticism, which means that EON would be putting themselves in a no-win situation. So why bother? The fans you would lose would tower over the handful you might gain. Other than scoring a few political brownie points with some ideologues, it will do nothing to secure the viability of the series. Quite the opposite, really; it will hasten the demise.

Marvel Studios has shown that you can have multiple superheroes in their own stand-alone films without diluting the overall strength of the core-brand. Therefore, expand the MI6 universe. Create new 00-agents and have them star in their own films. 003 can be a sexy woman. 005 can be black. 009 can be gay. But you cannot make 007 black. Period. End of story.

And just to make sure that everyone knows I'm not racist towards blacks, I would also oppose making Bond into an Asian, Jewish, Latin, Polynesian, Slavic, Arab, Mediterranean, etc...If casting Daniel Craig was too controversial because of the way he looked, how will Idris Elba stand a chance?

Don't do it EON. Don't even think it. I would drop this series like a bad habit and would actively oppose the series and help anyone and everyone that I could organize a boycott against the film and its sponsors.

I won't buy into a black Bond unless it's some kind of story like Face Off...

Idris Elba being cast as Bond makes me think Jason Statham should be cast as Barack Obama.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

But Bond is an exception; you cannot separate the man from the actor.

I agree with your main point entirely, but you need to qualify this statement, which is, in itself, ridiculous
more than any other movie franchise Bond has demonstrated that the man and the actor can. be seperated, as it has continued through more changes of lead actor than any other
however there are still limits, even the casting of a WASP American would be considered sacriledge by most non American fans :affraid:

The problem with a black Bond is that the media are going to make it into a real song and dance.

Let's say Idris Elba was cast as Bond. He'd probably be a very good Bond. But most of that would be lost in the swollen masses of media asking EON at every opportunity about their reasons for casting a black James Bond. And the xenophobic tabloids would have a field day with it.

The sad and embarrassing part would be that if Elba - or any other black actor cast in the role - was white, the media wouldn't care less.

Seve wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

But Bond is an exception; you cannot separate the man from the actor.

I agree with your main point entirely, but you need to qualify this statement, which is, in itself, ridiculous
more than any other movie franchise Bond has demonstrated that the man and the actor can. be separated, as it has continued through more changes of lead actor than any other
however there are still limits, even the casting of a WASP American would be considered sacriledge by most non American fans :affraid:

Which may be another reason why Burt Reynolds was ultimately not chosen.

I understand why you think my comment is, on its face, ridiculous, but I think the low points of the series have demonstrated that the right actor needs to be in the role. In the new documentary, EVERYTHING OR NOTHING, Jerry Juroe sadly reflects upon how the audiences simply did not care for Timothy Dalton's version of Bond, and Dalton was the closest, I would say, to actually looking and acting like Fleming's 007. If Dalton didn't stand a chance, what does that say for Idris Elba?

Yes, there are a ton of individual elements that go into making a proper James Bond movie, but most of it is for nothing if they don't have the right actor in it. And, to be quite blunt about it, if the black community wants to have a black superhero franchise, they need to create one, not simply glom off the work that other people have accomplished over the last 50-60 years. The implication with people saying we 'need a black 007; it's about time' is to suggest that the current success of the series is somehow not legitimate or credible unless it has contributions from black people. We had a "black version" of Airplane with "Soul Plane". We've got a "black version" of Steel Magnolias currently on Lifetime-TV. Will Smith has been trying to get a "black version" of "9-to-5" up and running at his movie studio. When no black superheroes can be found, Hollywood lately has just been taking white ones and turning them black: i.e. Idris Elba in Thor, or Samuel L. Jackson in The Avengers.

Race and ethnicity and skin color is tied into how people see themselves and others, both positively and negatively. It cannot be credibly separated from James Bond's identity without totally destroying who James Bond is and was. Again, this is not an idle threat. If EON chooses to go down this road, either with Elba or some other black actor, it's game over.

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

Idris Elba being cast as Bond makes me think Jason Statham should be cast as Barack Obama.

Jason Statham (in blackface) storming bin Laden's compound would be the greatest movie ever made.

I suppose it also depends on how much weight you are prepared to give to Bond's back story - viewers interested merely in the explosions, exotic locations and sex have no reason to care about the colour of Bond's skin. If, however, you are interested in the character himself then surely his skin colour becomes a factor. As someone who moans when they bring Bond's family and history into the story, I admit that who he is matters to me. I don't want touchy-feely examinations of how lack of parental love made him cold and scared of intimacy, yawn. I accept that his history is a certain way, he is a certain way, that's why I like him, but that also means he is white. He is a product of the post-colonial era (however you choose to fit that into modern day Bond), he was educated at posh schools, he likes to smoke (not that I'm interested in seeing him do it onscreen), drink and shag. He's white. It's just who he is. Making him black is as pointless as a black actress playing me when they make a film of my life.

I've been pretty open to the changes they have been making to the series, but I couldn't see them doing this. It seems a bit ridiculous. It would be like making a Shaft movie with a white actor as Shaft. It just doesn't make much sense.

And just logically, how could your explain away your main character switching skin color every few films?

Now if we were talking about a show like Doctor Who were anything is possible, I could be all for it. The guy can change his body. Now sure..... all 11 incarnations have been white males..... but it's Doctor Who, nothing is really outside the realm of possibility. I could easily see the Doctor change skin color or turn into a woman. Anything is possible.

Bond... not so much.

Moore wrote:

And just logically, how could your explain away your main character switching skin color every few films?

The same way you explain him changing from Sean Connery into George Lazenby, then back to Connery, and then into Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan and finally morphing into Daniel Craig:

You don't.

EON have never so much as attempted to explain how and why James Bond is played by a different actor every few films. The change from Pierce Brosnan to Daniel Craig is the closest they have ever come to explaining it - though I do believe an original draft of OHMSS explained the change as plastic surgery to allow Bond to infiltrate Blofeld's operations as a part of Operation Bedlam - and even then, that explanation was to move the Bond films into a new timeline and behave as if nothing that had come before had any bearing on the events of CASINO ROYALE.