[SPOILERS] Skyfall: Post-Viewing Discussion

Nah. I think it was all about M being the matriarch of MI6, and perhaps a mother figure to the orphans who, as M stated, make the best recruits. And at any rate, M (Dench) was a bit old to be Silva's (Bardem's) biological mother. Not impossible, of course, but dam' unlikely.

Perilagu Khan wrote:

Nah. I think it was all about M being the matriarch of MI6, and perhaps a mother figure to the orphans who, as M stated, make the best recruits. And at any rate, M (Dench) was a bit old to be Silva's (Bardem's) biological mother. Not impossible, of course, but dam' unlikely.

Huh? Even taking Dench and Bardem's ages as those of the characters, that still would have made M 35 when she gave birth to Silva. I wouldn't consider that a "bit old" (except in West Virginia, where most of the girls start out getting pregnant around 14 or 15..... maybe 16 or 17 if they're not dating their cousin or brother).

It's an interesting theory and one that's certainly crossed my mind. I wonder whether early drafts of the script made it explicit that Silva is M's son. I know, I know, it would be a pretty ludicrous plot development and shark-jumping in all sorts of ways but the film certainly feels as though it might once have had it before saner heads prevailed in the cutting room.

There's also the mysterious bit about Silva's real name, which, again, feels like a half-developed revelation that was ultimately scrapped. I wonder whether these two things might have fitted together in some way.

BTW, is SKYFALL already on Blu-ray in the States?

I don't think it's meant to be taken literally, at least I have never heard of anything about the idea of M being the mother of Silva or whatever.

Loomis wrote:

There's also the mysterious bit about Silva's real name, which, again, feels like a half-developed revelation that was ultimately scrapped. I wonder whether these two things might have fitted together in some way.

It has been noted that "Raoul Silva" is an anagram of "A Rival Soul", which does describe his relationship to Bond quite well.

As for his original name, "Tiago" is the Spanish and Portuguese form of "James", furthering the connection to Bond. "Rodriguez", though is "son of Roderick".

Loomis wrote:

BTW, is SKYFALL already on Blu-ray in the States?

No, it doesn't come out for official release until February 12th, which is one week from now. It makes the perfect Happy Black American History Month gift for that special someone in your life.

I was able to get an advance copy that did not involve piracy or ripping

Remember the fearful pre-release speculation here that the 'big reveal' would be that M was BOND'S biological mother?

I'll never forget it.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Remember the fearful pre-release speculation here that the 'big reveal' would be that M was BOND'S biological mother?

The speculation was not without merit. It's not as if the paranoia was cooked up. And a lot of the other fearful speculation turned out to be true: M firing a gun, Eve being Moneypenny, M being the main Bond Girl, M being treated as a surrogate mother for Bond (and it's quite clearly spelled out in the film and script that she's treated as a mother figure by both Bond and Silva explicitly).

After seeing Skyfall, the vast majority of us were fine and dandy with how those things were handled/panned out in the film. Unfounded fears in the end, I daresay.

Blunt Instrument wrote:

Unfounded fears in the end, I daresay.

No, they weren't "unfounded". "Unfounded" implies they were not true. Most of the fears were. Whether you agreed with the fears is up to you, but people fearing that Eve was Moneypenny, or that M fires a gun, or that M was the main Bond Girl were founded fears....they were founded on truths.

And in the end all was just fine.

Funny thing is that we knew everything about the movie; we did know M would die, Silva's plan, new M and Moneypenny, yet we didn't know what Skyfall was.

Some of us did. Look back to March in one of the photo threads, and you'll find the stag statue.

Here's what the model for the statue looked like:

Python wrote:

And in the end all was just fine.

Pretty much what I was getting at.

Got the Blu-ray and had my second viewing the film. I still like it, though to what extent remains to be seen over time. It's just different is all. In terms of ranking... I'd have to look at how I ranked the films a few months ago. It's Top 10, but it doesn't feel as rewatchable to me as some of the others.

Favorite parts?

-The casino.
-Silva's island.
-Scotland.

Just got my copy in the mail, currently in the casino scene. I just wanted to pause for a moment so I can say this: DAYUM. This is one of the finest looking blu-rays I have ever watched, truly impressive given this is from a digital shoot. Thank the Dalton we got Deakins of all people as DP.

I think SKYFALL is the only Bond film that might be better as a movie than it is as a Bond movie.

Thoughts?

I think the film itself is exceptionally well made. The thought I have is of comparing the first DIRTY HARRY, directed by the very skilled Don Siegel, to it's later sequels, directed by less skilled directors. SKYFALL really stands up in my eyes as a very well made film.

I am all for Mendes coming back at any time.

The White Tuxedo wrote:

I think SKYFALL is the only Bond film that might be better as a movie than it is as a Bond movie.

Thoughts?

I think the film itself is exceptionally well made. The thought I have is of comparing the first DIRTY HARRY, directed by the very skilled Don Siegel, to it's later sequels, directed by less skilled directors. SKYFALL really stands up in my eyes as a very well made film.

I am all for Mendes coming back at any time.

Tell that to Manhunter. He's convinced SF is somewhere between DAD and The Last Boy Scout.

The White Tuxedo wrote:

I think SKYFALL is the only Bond film that might be better as a movie than it is as a Bond movie.

Thoughts?

I'd go along with that. It's not vital, exciting, spectacular or particularly of-the-moment or cutting edge. It probably doesn't have the zip or wow factor of some other big Bond films which made rewatching them (or just their numerous action scenes) enjoyable in the past. To a large extent, Skyfall is just a solid film, not feeling necessarily like a Bond film at times, despite stock elements being in place for the most part. The drama takes first chair here. But hopefully SF's solidity will stand it in good stead as the years go by. I'm yet to succumb to buying it to watch it again, possibly through fear it may lessen my opinion of the film. I'll give it some time to age, hopefully like a fine wine and not last week's milk, then I'll go back to it.

Lazenby. on Skyfall wrote:

It's not vital, exciting, spectacular or particularly of-the-moment or cutting edge.

I'd say the heavily electronic score is, as is its Julian Assange-inspired villain, the arguments for why we need Bond in the age of hackers and drone warfare, the very 2012 British patriotism, and the utterly breathtaking skyscraper fight - to name but a few elements.

Funnily enough, the most dated, turgid and bloodless part of the film is it's most praised and awarded - Adele's title song.

I admire your restraint in holding back from SF ATM, but before you know it, you might end up waiting years, or hell even decades.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Lazenby. on Skyfall wrote:

It's not vital, exciting, spectacular or particularly of-the-moment or cutting edge.

I'd say the heavily electronic score is, as is its Julian Assange-inspired villain, the arguments for why we need Bond in the age of hackers and drone warfare, the very 2012 British patriotism, and the utterly breathtaking skyscraper fight - to name but a few elements.

Funnily enough, the most dated, turgid and bloodless part of the film is it's most praised and awarded - Adele's title song.

I found Skyfall's pleasures to be mostly rooted in the past, and in this kind of "Bond as Rocky Balboa" scenario, it works. Indeed, in a world full of shitty CGI and mobile phone overload, the old ways are indeed the best. But this is still by and large a safe film which just does quite a few things recent Bond films have done drama-wise, but just does them better. Sure there is, as ever, some modern window dressing, but Skyfall still depends a hell of a lot on it's "old school" sentiments. Hell, Bond himself is presented here as "old" in a way that even AVTAK Rog wasn't (well, not in the AVTAK script anyway), and he teams up with two pensioners to kill a terrorist in a big century-old house with such limited weaponry that I half-expected him to pull out a peashooter. Don't get me wrong, none of this is bad, but it's just not particularly progressive either and the future films can't lean on this kind of thing again because so much of it is spent in SF. The way forward needs to be paved with the next film.

Lazenby. wrote:

Don't get me wrong, none of this is bad, but it's just not particularly progressive either and the future films can't lean on this kind of thing again because so much of it is spent in SF. The way forward needs to be paved with the next film.

I definitely agree with you there. One of the great things about having Mendes return is that he's done SKYFALL, he's not an idiot, and he'll will want to make a dramatically different film from SKYFALL in order to keep himself hooked. I fear if Bond 24 fell into the hands of someone else, they'd try to have a shot at making their SKYFALL - cashing in on its success, screwing it up and buggering off (i.e. Spottiswood and Forster).

Laz, I think you're drawing a false dichotomy between drama and excitement. I consider the drama of the casino dialogue between Bond and Severine to be one of the most exciting things I've ever seen in a Bond film. Perhaps suspenseful, is the better term, but the distinction between suspense and excitement is more apparent than real.

Honestly I'm not sure how I feel about Skyfall as a Bond film, it feels very different from previous Bond films although still has a bit of the spirit from the classics to where it's not totally alienated itself from the previous films. Maybe over the years I will come to a conclusion on where it truly stands after returning to it a number of times and letting it all sink in.

But on it's own merits I can say I really like it. A very well-shot and moody thriller that's not as overwhelming as QOS was with the editing and amount of action but still retaining enough to keep the excitement going at times. The pre-titles sequence was pretty exciting, the plot was interesting, everyone put in a good performance especially Javier Bardem as Silva, and those Shanghai and Macau scenes are nothing short of beautiful. I kind of already knew going in this was going to be Dench's last film as M but I didn't expect them to give her character a proper finale like this has, a very touching one to boot and the last scene in the classic M office was a great surprise that hopefully won't be left in the dust with future installments of the franchise.

I don't really have much at all to complain about with Skyfall, maybe over time I will have something to complain about to keep myself occupied until the next film but as of now it stands as a great movie in my opinion.