Skyfall: a surprising disappointment

I think the finale of SKYFALL is, by far, its best sequence.

Loomis wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

I'm amazed that you Fleming aficionados like myself don't like the ending to SF. To me this was one of the highlights, seeing a back-to-basics Bond in the most down-to-earth finale since FYEO.

No silly volcano lairs, spaceships blowing up, crumbling Venice buildings, baddies in orange boiler suits fighting underwater with men in black suits, ice palace battles with lasers, etc.

Yes, plausibility stretches at the end - why wasn't a crack commando unit lying in wait for Silva and his merry men to arrive in Glencoe, but then knowing Silva, if that had happened he would have fled anyway.

Fleming's novels were littered with plot holes, some of them probably more far-fetched than the ending to Skyfall, but it never once took the enjoyment away for me, with the novels or Skyfall. Had Fleming been alive today, I think he would have found Skyfall more in line with his vision of Bond than any previous outing.

I agree with every word of that. On paper, SKYFALL has an excellent finale, and, yes, one of the most down-to-earth and Flemingian finales ever. (Although for the fiftieth anniversary outing of the cinematic 007, it's arguable that an ending with "silly volcano lairs, spaceships blowing up, crumbling Venice buildings, baddies in orange boiler suits fighting underwater with men in black suits, ice palace battles with lasers, etc." might have been more appropriate.)

The problem is, I don't think it's done particularly well.

Really? Why? Too OTT? Too downbeat? The acting not very good?

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

The first act is a Bond movie, the second act is THE DARK KNIGHT

Aside from the isolation chamber sequence, I really can't see TDK comparisons. For one, SKYFALL is actually funny.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

The first act is a Bond movie, the second act is THE DARK KNIGHT

Aside from the isolation chamber sequence, I really can't see TDK comparisons. For one, SKYFALL is actually funny.

The scene when M and Kincaide escape in the Preist's hole is very Nolanish, including Newman's score which suddenly turns all Zimmer for that moment.

jet set willy wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

The first act is a Bond movie, the second act is THE DARK KNIGHT

Aside from the isolation chamber sequence, I really can't see TDK comparisons. For one, SKYFALL is actually funny.

The scene when M and Kincaide escape in the Preist's hole is very Nolanish, including Newman's score which suddenly turns all Zimmer for that moment.

And the bit when Bond rides the elevator reminded me of a love child of Elfman and Zimmer's BATMAN themes.

Largo's Shark wrote:

jet set willy wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

The first act is a Bond movie, the second act is THE DARK KNIGHT

Aside from the isolation chamber sequence, I really can't see TDK comparisons. For one, SKYFALL is actually funny.

The scene when M and Kincaide escape in the Preist's hole is very Nolanish, including Newman's score which suddenly turns all Zimmer for that moment.

And the bit when Bond rides the elevator reminded me of a love child of Elfman and Zimmer's BATMAN themes.

Yeah that elevator bit was the only time the music struck me as Zimmerlike.

The score aside, I do feel like the final sequence of the movie in the house was a bit out of place for a Bond movie. It might have been my least favorite part of the movie. Still very entertaining and well crafted. And it fit with the rest of the film, which up until that point was quite Bondian - at times Fleming-like. But definitely a little out of place.

I thought it was nice reversal of the 'Bond and an army raid the villain's lair' finales of old, and it ties in well with the film's subtext, with the foreshadowing of Daniel Kleinman's titles and the interrogation (Skyfall? Done) paying off.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

The grand finale is just an ordinary shootout where a key character gets mortally wounded. If Silva put the gun to his head instead, and took out both himself and M with a single shot, that would have been something.

That would have been unnecessarily gratuitous and lacking emotional pay-off.

Well, as it stands, the scene feels slightly ripped off from THE DARK KNIGHT, where Joker pleads with Two-Face to kill him, and I think the scene lacks emotional pay-off anyway. Craig sells his part of the scene, but I guess Mendes went for a restrained death scene from Judi Dench.

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

The grand finale is just an ordinary shootout where a key character gets mortally wounded. If Silva put the gun to his head instead, and took out both himself and M with a single shot, that would have been something.

That would have been unnecessarily gratuitous and lacking emotional pay-off.

Well, as it stands, the scene feels slightly ripped off from THE DARK KNIGHT, where Joker pleads with Two-Face to kill him.

And the Joker then died a few seconds later from injuries sustained earlier in battle? "Slightly" is the operative word here.

I don't think the scene with Joker and Two-Face is in any way like the one with Silva and M.

I also quite the Scotland stuff. It worked for me, at least on the first viewing.

Skyfall does seem like less than a great Bond film. I think I'll put off seeing it for a few weeks, only because there are so many better Bonds playing here on the big-screen that I'd rather pay money for. I've got screenings of LALD, OP, TLD, AVTAK and OHMSS (with supervillain and henchmen in proper orange jumpsuits) that I want to get to in the next couple of weeks. SF will have to wait. Tanya Roberts, Maud Adams, plus Bond and Kananga's epic awesome-underground-lair showdown beckon, plus I'm about halfway through my Flemingathon. Halfway through DN. Still not seeing any Craig-Bond in Fleming. Book Bond has his stuff together unlike big-screen soap-opera Bond.

I don't want to risk Oscar-bait Craig-Bond and Skyfall dampening my 50th anniversary 007 celebrations. The latest Craig, drama-Bond will have to wait.

I'm sure I'll enjoy it as a good Dark Knight, Bond-like action/drama film, when I get around to seeing it. Should be better than Bourne Legacy at least.

Quote :

Still not seeing any Craig-Bond in Fleming.

Yet you haven't seen Skyfall-Craig-Bond! :)

The Dark Knight comparisons should probably stop. The two films have very little in common, IMO, and if Mendes himself hadn't mentioned that film as an influence, then I don't think anyone would be comparing the two.

And for what it's worth, Tiff, Skyfall is much more along the lines of the Connery and Moore classic Bond films than Craig's previous two entries. So, if you disliked CR and QOS, then chances are you'll love Skyfall.

dr. strangelove wrote:

The Dark Knight comparisons should probably stop. The two films have very little in common, IMO, and if Mendes himself hadn't mentioned that film as an influence, then I don't think anyone would be comparing the two.

Except many of us were making the exact same comparison based upon the first trailer back in May, way before Mendes revealed TDK was an inspiration to the film. In any event, SKYFALL stands on its own, even if it was inspired, in places, by TDK. It kind of feels like TDK gave Babs permission to go big again with the villain.

Quote :

And for what it's worth, Tiff, Skyfall is much more along the lines of the Connery and Moore classic Bond films than Craig's previous two entries. So, if you disliked CR and QOS, then chances are you'll love Skyfall.

On this point I will agree: This is easily the best of the Craig films so far. The humor is mostly on target, although once or twice Mendes extends the joke further than it needs to go: for example, the audience laughed pretty hard when 007 jumps onto the back of the "tube"(?) because most everyone in the theater can identify with trying to catch a plane or a train or a cab. Nothing else needed to be said or done. The look on the conductor's face, as well as Bond's, said it all, but then Mendes had to go and include a line about Bond being from the health department. Just....not....necessary.

Also, the woman Bond is sleeping with in Turkey....doesn't look particularly hot from that angle. And did she even have any lines?

tiffanywint wrote:

Skyfall does seem like less than a great Bond film. I think I'll put off seeing it for a few weeks, only because there are so many better Bonds playing here on the big-screen that I'd rather pay money for. I've got screenings of LALD, OP, TLD, AVTAK and OHMSS (with supervillain and henchmen in proper orange jumpsuits) that I want to get to in the next couple of weeks. SF will have to wait. Tanya Roberts, Maud Adams, plus Bond and Kananga's epic awesome-underground-lair showdown beckon, plus I'm about halfway through my Flemingathon. Halfway through DN. Still not seeing any Craig-Bond in Fleming. Book Bond has his stuff together unlike big-screen soap-opera Bond.

I don't want to risk Oscar-bait Craig-Bond and Skyfall dampening my 50th anniversary 007 celebrations. The latest Craig, drama-Bond will have to wait.

I'm sure I'll enjoy it as a good Dark Knight, Bond-like action/drama film, when I get around to seeing it. Should be better than Bourne Legacy at least.

I'm amazed you would rather watch films you've seen loads of times, over a brand new film which you may actually like.

The biggest similarity wth TDK is in the nutso Machivellian villain and the whole second act where capturing the villain was his plan all along and the cop masquerade. Also I think the success of the Nolan movies gave them permission to go for the tone they did on this.

dr. strangelove wrote:

The Dark Knight comparisons should probably stop. The two films have very little in common, IMO, and if Mendes himself hadn't mentioned that film as an influence, then I don't think anyone would be comparing the two.

Wrong. The moment I saw Silva dressed up as a British cop in those early promo photos, the thought flashed through my mind. Comparisons with TDK are inevitable. Not withstanding that, I did like Silva a whole lot, would have enjoyed the film more if he had more screen time and didn't get bumped off so pathetically. Bond just basically sneaks up on him and knifes him in the back....

I'm seeing the movie again tomorrow...

And? It's one of the best villain deaths of any Bond film, right up there with Rosa Klebb in FRWL, Emilio Largo in TB, and General Orlov in OP.

Largo's Shark wrote:

And? It's one of the best villain deaths of any Bond film, right up there with Rosa Klebb in FRWL, Emilio Largo in TB, and General Orlov in OP.

Knife to the back? Hardly epic. I'd rather have seen Silva attacked by giant rats in the underground tunnel at SKYFALL.

Best Bond Villain Deaths: Zorin, May Day, Necros, Krest, Harmsway Carver, Goldfinger, Locque.

Silva? Not so much.

Largo's Shark wrote:

And? It's one of the best villain deaths of any Bond film, right up there with Rosa Klebb in FRWL, Emilio Largo in TB, and General Orlov in OP.

It would suit a secondary henchman...the big burly Chinese guy got a better sendoff with the Komodo dragon...

Alec went out in style...Dominic Greene gets thoroughly OWNED in the desert, is humiliated and is set up to be killed by his own mates from Quantum...but the best villain of them all just gets a knife to the back while tormenting M...he never sees it coming, no fighting chance...no mano-a-mano...I would've preferred to see how Silva employed his meditation and escape tactics from the glass cage in a one on one with Bond...clearly the man had skills...

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

And? It's one of the best villain deaths of any Bond film, right up there with Rosa Klebb in FRWL, Emilio Largo in TB, and General Orlov in OP.

Knife to the back?

Doesn't matter what the means is, it's how it's acted. Carver was drilled to death, but it never did much for me. Necros and Zorin (despite Walken's great laugh) were marred by that stock scream sound they used all of the time. With Silva, you feel his pain, as if the knife cut right into his spine. His final look to Bond before he collapses is brilliant.

Largo's Shark wrote:

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

Largo's Shark wrote:

And? It's one of the best villain deaths of any Bond film, right up there with Rosa Klebb in FRWL, Emilio Largo in TB, and General Orlov in OP.

Knife to the back?

Doesn't matter what the means is, it's how it's acted. Carver was drilled to death, but it never did much for me. Necros and Zorin (despite Walken's great laugh) were marred by that stock scream sound they used all of the time. With Silva, you feel his pain, as if the knife cut right into his spine. His final look to Bond before he collapses is brilliant.

An intimate story needed an intimate death. Silva being killed in an explosion or by machine gun fire or in some outlandish manner would have hurt the film.

I like how it also calls in the fact that Bond is a great knife thrower, though whether that was thought of in the writing I don't know.

I also think of Bond not using disguises as said in FRWL. Though he does get a haircut in LALD. Bond in the airport looked a little silly to me. It actually made me think of Sacha Baron Cohen.

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

Alec went out in style...

One of the most pathetic and unintentionally funny deaths of any Bond baddie. The poor bastard falls 300 feet onto hard concrete, somehow survives, and gets impaled as the telescope comes crashing down onto him.

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

Dominic Greene gets thoroughly OWNED in the desert

Yet we don't see his death. Huge letdown.

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

I would've preferred to see how Silva employed his mediation and escape tactics from the glass cage in a one on one with Bond...clearly the man had skills...

Would have been too clichéd. Besides his focus was M, not Bond. He knew Bond was the better fighter and would win in hand-to-hand combat, which is why he used his henchmen to if not kill him, at least give him some distance.

The White Tuxedo wrote:

I also think of Bond not using disguises as said in FRWL. Though he does get a haircut in LALD. Bond in the airport looked a little silly to me. It actually made me think of Sacha Baron Cohen.

He looked like one of the Village People, or a customer at the Blue Oyster Bar.