Skyfall: a surprising disappointment

Yeah at the end of the day the prototypical Bond novel features a chapterlong graphic torture scene and ends with the love interest intentionally overdosing on pills. Let's not pretend this is a character built on good will toward men.

Largo's Shark wrote:

It might be to do with Severine being sex slave since the age of 12.

She was never portrayed as someone who looked like one when Bond first comes across her in the casino.

Here she just looks like a snitch who is about to get wasted...and it was nicely done....

Fairbairn-Sykes wrote:

Sorry but I think her death was meant to be disturbing. Thats the point. Silva is a heartless monster and we feel for Severin so we are upset when she dies. Would you prefer the moment made you cheer or laugh?

Yup. Silva's callousness when he immediately shoots her after Bond's misfire really helped pain him as a monster, the kind Fleming would have written I think, (actually like Scaramanga in some respects, another GOLDEN GUN page taken). But I do love how it is all executed (no pun) with the close ups, Severine looking at Bond with reassuring eyes, Bond hand being a sleeping dog chasing rabbits, the shot of the glass falling on the ground and spilling.

I was quite angry at Severine's death. And I instantly thought, "How many times have I actually given a crap when a Bond girl has died." Sometimes I'm happy (Teri Hatcher).

Exactly. I was pissed that she died, too, BUT THAT WAS THE POINT!!

It's effective.

So when Silva gets a throwing knife to the back - you are so into it.

Or, at least, I was.

I also liked that the game that Silva set up involved Bond's shaky aim. No TWINE there/not there shoulder injury here.

That was one of my favorite bits of the movie. A lot of organic tension.

Mrs Aural Sects wrote:

Severine wasn't even stripped, so where was the porn? She was beaten though...

I thought this scene in Moonraker with Corinne Dufour was even more disturbing than Severine's death...

Toruture-porn doesn't have to imply nudity or even sexuality. I think the term might have first surfaced in the wake of the Saw films. Torture-porn is probably too strong a term though, even for the Saw films, which were actually kind of camp.

The Corrine death is a close second though. What the two scenes have in common is the depiction of extended suffering, although Corrine might conceivably have been under the delusion that she might get away from the dogs, however Severine was beat-up and de-humanized by Silva and then made to endure the sick game of target practise, before she was blown away, I'm guessing with a bullet right to the face, as it doesn't appear that Silva missed high. It is a disturbing scene and it is there for effect. Bond was put in an almost impossible situation, although the classic heroic path in such a situation is to go down with the girl in an attempt to save her and not give in to the villains depravity.

Bond though had no idea what to do. He didn't act until it was too late for the girl. I won't go so far as to say that he sacrificed the girl to save himself, but you could make that argument, as it was the girl's death and his throw-away remark, that allowed him to seize the opening which allowed him to turn the tables. Rather it seems Bond was simply at a loss and had no idea what to do, other than to purposely miss with his first shot and buy time. I can't imagine he was actually trying to hit the little glass. That would just terrify the girl more even he did hit the glass.

Silva is really no more depraved a villain than many other Bond villains we have seen. This isn't the first innocent, tragic figure of a Bond-girl, to get killed in a Bond film. We didn't learn anything new about Silva. He's a Bond-villain. Virtually all of them are capable of the worst torture and depravity. But I'm not sure what the filmmakers were trying to say here about Bond. Whatever it was, it wasn't very flattering, but I get it, Bond is no longer a hero in the classic sense. He's got a grey side. People die. The filmmakers aren't going to give him the heroic "outs" that the other actors were provided.

Is this a good thing? Depends what you want in a Bond film.

What is most troubling about Severine's death scene is the awkward way the scene shifts from her murder to a more celebratory mood as Bond corners Silva and his backup arrives. It's as though her death was just an afterthought.

Agreed. That is a little sloppy.

Bond used Severine as surely as Silva. She was a means to an end.

That point is originally where Bond was going to chase Silva through the dead city, involving a crash through a skylight leading to a fight among a swarm of rats. Apparently this was re-written and dropped for reasons of pacing, but it might have provided a smoother transition to the celebratory mood.

Largo's Shark wrote:

That point is originally where Bond was going to chase Silva through the dead city, involving a crash through a skylight leading to a fight among a swarm of rats. Apparently this was re-written and dropped for reasons of pacing, but it might have provided a smoother transition to the celebratory mood.

That makes sense.

Erica Ambler wrote:

Bond used Severine as surely as Silva. She was a means to an end.

True. And this is familiar Bond behavior, of course (just see Bond's treatment of Andrea Anders in THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN). But Severine's tragic backstory makes Bond using her in this way seem a bit nastier than usual.

But, as I noted above, what really gets me is the jump from her death to the blaring Bond theme, which as Sharky noted, is likely a result of cutting Bond's pursuit of Silva thorugh the island. A different musical cue and an angrier Bond would make the scene work for me.

The Bond theme blares in for two reasons: a) Bond's triumph in having Silva captured (and, in doing so, regaining some Bond "mojo"), and b) to quickly remove a nasty death from the mind of the viewer, the kind of deflection tactic the series has used from pretty much day one. Everything was done right there IMO, we hate Severine's death but we're not allowed to dwell on it because the emphasis now needs to shift to Bond, Silva and the continuation of the story.

Harmsway wrote:

Severine's tragic backstory .

I would suggest the writers are suggesting a similarity between Severine's and Bond's servitude.

Quote :

Bond is no longer a hero in the classic sense. He's got a grey side. People die

Bond has never been a hero in the classic sense. He has always been an anti-hero. The sleeping around and killing unarmed Dent was not family friendly back in the 1960s.

Erica Ambler wrote:

Harmsway wrote:

Severine's tragic backstory .

I would suggest the writers are suggesting a similarity between Severine's and Bond's servitude.

Fascinating. The thought hadn't even occurred to me. Could you expand on that?

Harmsway wrote:

Erica Ambler wrote:

Harmsway wrote:

Severine's tragic backstory .

I would suggest the writers are suggesting a similarity between Severine's and Bond's servitude.

Fascinating. The thought hadn't even occurred to me. Could you expand on that?

Since Ambler appears to be occupied, I'll take over.

From Bond's deduction, Severine was forced into the world of sex trafficking around the age of 12. Bond's became orphaned at a similar age (11), and according to SKYFALL - MI6 and the Royal Navy exploited that background. As M says, "orphans make the best recruits."

Alrighty. How do you see their mirrored narratives playing out in their respective choices and fates? And what commentary does that make on Bond, in particular?

I guess I could tease that all out on my own, but I'm curious where you and Ambler would go with that.

Hmmm... I'll let Ambler do the rest.

Off to bed.

Triviachamp wrote:

Bond has never been a hero in the classic sense. He has always been an anti-hero. The sleeping around and killing unarmed Dent was not family friendly back in the 1960s.

There is nothing anti-hero about those items. Killing villains like Dent is what he's supposed to do, especially after they have twice tried to kill him in a matter of minutes. Its neither heroic nor anti-heroic. It's just Bond doing his job, exercising his double-O. Heroism is when you put yourself at risk for the good of others which is what Bond does in every film and every book, even the Craig-films.

There is nothing anti-heroic or heroic about Bond's womanizing. In fact Connery, Moore, Laz, even Dalts and Broz were all quite charming about it. They seduced women with a twinkle in their eye. And book Bond is extremely chivalrous. Bond will use sex as a weapon with the evil women, but so what, they are evil. They are generally plotting to kill him.

Largo's Shark wrote:

That point is originally where Bond was going to chase Silva through the dead city, involving a crash through a skylight leading to a fight among a swarm of rats. Apparently this was re-written and dropped for reasons of pacing, but it might have provided a smoother transition to the celebratory mood.

Not to mention another action scene...although the skylight drop would have been too reminiscent of Quantum, barely a flick ago.

A fight with REAL rats would've been something....

Severine's death ranks among the series' most shocking deaths, but it was also inevitable and poetic. Much like Vesper knew she was going to her death (as M says) and arguably Mathis, so did Severine. From her introduction, looking at Bond in the skyscrapers, there is something otherworldly and haunting about her. A slave most of her life and living in such fear, Severine is already dead in a way. Bond is a man who has also looked death in the face. This gives the shower scene some added poignancy. The sheer humiliation that Severine then undergoes on Silva's island is the tragic cap-off to a tragic character. I really found this to be one of the most beautifully realized Bond girls, despite her limited screen time.

GeneralGogol wrote:

Severine's death ranks among the series' most shocking deaths, but it was also inevitable and poetic. Much like Vesper knew she was going to her death (as M says) and arguably Mathis, so did Severine. From her introduction, looking at Bond in the skyscrapers, there is something otherworldly and haunting about her. A slave most of her life and living in such fear, Severine is already dead in a way. Bond is a man who has also looked death in the face. This gives the shower scene some added poignancy. The sheer humiliation that Severine then undergoes on Silva's island is the tragic cap-off to a tragic character. I really found this to be one of the most beautifully realized Bond girls, despite her limited screen time.

Severine gives new meaning to 15 minutes of fame...